Our raid leader made someone cry

[Tradewind]

I never had anyone necessarily make someone cry, but I have had someone cry during a raid for what they perceived as our group's spiteful judgment of their failures on Heroic Lich King...

That was awkward to say the least...even more so when you realize they were like a 30 year old man...

[Forgottenone]

Couple things here:

1. The GM was correct for kicking the RL only because since she is her fiancee she is more important than the entire raid and guild combined and that is a fact. Even if she is a bad player she is more important than them.

2. The RL should of made sure who was connected to who, looking for couples and groups of friends and what not in the guild. Fact is you don't want to piss of a GM or officer unless you are an officer or GM.

3. Dodging Attenuation on heroic isn't overly complicated, she is bad if she was struggling on it. He only excuse would be she was having a trouble healing others while dodging in which case the solution would of been to let them die and worry about herself. They would get a mouth full not her

4. Regardless of the situation a RL needs to keep his/her cool, venting and raging is just poor leadership and shows you have poor control over yourself. You can be mad but keep calm, at the end of the raid you deal with the bads and have them replaced. Talk to them and tell them they are gone. I only give a few exceptions to raid leaders who have had it hard over the years and just snap, I give them a break since after all we are human.

5. This is a code I try to live by which is avoiding raiding guilds with couples, my main concern is it almost always becomes a 2v1. If the wife is bad the husband jumps in, if the husband is bad the wife jumps in. Obviously I understand that but I just prefer to raid with people who aren't package deals. If someone is bad and can't increase their skill/raid awareness replace them. Now there are a few exceptions but they are few and far between in my experience @_@


Those are just what I believe though, take it for what you will xD

[Stolensouls]

I prefer the screaming and yelling raid leader to the everyones friend type. In my experience only the guilds I was in with yelling raid leaders got anywhere the other type would get stuck midway through a raid tier because they couldn't call out bad play for fear of hurting anyone's feelings.

[Deleted]

I prefer the screaming and yelling raid leader to the everyones friend type. In my experience only the guilds I was in with yelling raid leaders got anywhere the other type would get stuck midway through a raid tier because they couldn't call out bad play for fear of hurting anyone's feelings.

Yes, amazing how progression in a video game can be more important than actually having fun and working with nice people.

I'd rather be in a friendly guild with bad progression than in the best guild on the server run by raging maniacs. Most people have the raging maniacs at work and are not looking forward to more of them at home too.

[Xargoth6634]

I'm the GM and RL of my small casual guild. We don't raid regularly now, but we did current content on a casual basis in BC and Wrath, and we run older content for mounts and stuff now. I've had a few times where I've yelled, but usually it's a general "What the fuck, guys, we need to focus here" or something along those lines. If someone in particular I pretty much have a 3 strikes in one evening policy: first one I whisper you directly, second one I'll mention your fuck up politely in vent and ask you to fix it since you're slowing everyone down, (work wonders for some people) and the third time I politely remove you from the raid. Or sometimes not quite so politely. I just stop bringing people eventually if they constantly prove they're incapable of following simple directions, but then of course that leads to drama. (Since we don't have a set raid team, everyone assumes guild membership entitles them to an invite) Granted, currently it's older content that we're just running with a skeleton crew, but it's still frustrating. Having 6 really good players, and a bunch of people who can't follow a simple rotation and pull over 25k and being stuck on a server where the available talent pool is really low is a main reason we don't even run any MoP content as a guild. =/

EDIT: in regards to the actual behavior, I think there's a difference between telling someone to get their shit together (even in front of the raid) and resorting to insults and ad hominems. I'm 100% ok with a raid environment where the raid leader is very blunt and will even yell at people sometimes, you can do that without being completely insulting and derogatory. If you app to a guild, listen to a raid of theirs on vent, (guilds used to allow and even encourage this, not sure if they still do) join the team and still get butthurt because they yell at you if you fuck up the same way they yell at everyone else then I think the problem is on your end. I found the video clip of the guy yelling at his raid pretty entertaining and I think he had every reason to be pissed. I've been in guilds like that and at the stage where I was more of a serious raider I would have had no problem being held to a high standard and being blasted if I fucked up. Now I'm lolcasual and I don't care enough to deal with the stress. Plus it's more fun leading anyway, especially if it's not serious content. =)

[Deleted]

In my experience girls are overly sensitive, you kinda have to tip toe around them.

[Deleted]

First of all raid is not a single player game where You go and do whatever the fvck You want to do.

If You go into a raid, which objectives are pretty simple and set in stone long before the raid starts for instance: we are casual riding, guild/semi-hardcore, hardcore guild etc etc. So, if You are in a guild which wants to let say, progress then You have to adapt to that or simply leave. If You want to do heroic then the amount of mistakes should be reduced to zero.
Also many guilds have something like regulations where they write things like "be ressistant to criticism, if You make mistake learn from it" etc etc

So back to the point, raid is a composition of ppl who got their aim and struggle to achieve it, be it realm first, heroic, or simple farm/clear. So EVERY1 should value time of the others, it's simple as that, game or no, time is time, priceless. We have 1 goal, we spend our time to achieve it, so value each other time and effort. If we/I want to/agree to give everything we can to achieve our goal, then everybody should focus on doing it, and not simply BE THERE waiting for boost for their "badness".
If som1 sucks or fails constantly it not only might but it even should to piss others off, i.o.w. go fail somewhere else. B1tching on others is not a solution (however it helps sometimes more than anything else, ppl needs to be put back into line), but such behaviour is also not acceptable, so better discuss this sooner than later.
As for this guy, well kicking him was best for him as he wants better raiding with better results so such casual-friendly guild wasn't meant for him in the first place (not to mention girls most of the time simply suck, are way too sensitive, You have to THINKG how to say to her that she made something wrong, and other ppl tends to be more forgiving for her which is bad in the long run, but that's offtop.), so better for him.

[Tyrannica]

So last night me and my guild are prepping to do some normal ToT, but first we voted we should do a heroic HoF first to "get a feel" of raiding because it's the first time we all raided together. So we get to Imperial Vizier Zor'lok and people are dying to attenuation. I don't know if it was a lack of healer or just badness.

So after the 4th wipe on heroic, he just goes berserk on the healers, which are mostly females, calling them names etc. And then we hear someone crying and its a girl. Anyways someone comes on vent and cusses our raid leader out and kicked him out the guild. It was the GM and the girl was his fiancee nd they were engaged. So personal story out the way, has your raid leader ever made someone cry?

"Our" sorry can't change title

thats a cool story bro, i wished the raid leader woúld get kicked in RL too.

[Deleted]

It isn't the RL job to hold people's hand about the bosses they are raiding. As a raider you are supposed to know the fights especially outdated content that is nerfed. This sounds like a bad group of players who were failing at old nerfed content who in all reality were more interested in the social aspect then progression as they raid content from last tier. The raid lead was most likely in the wrong type of guild with players so bad they couldnt down faceroll content.

You must've missed these fellows were going to progress through ToT normal. Then how is Vizier Zorlokk Heroic a good fight to practice on? There are much easier, yet still challenging fights on both normal and heroic. Especially the calculation of lag with attenuation is quite cumbersome. So if you are practicing for ToT normal and failing on Vizier Zorlokk and you are snapping the correct response is to move on and try another boss on heroic, or call it a night. Not rage at someone for failing on a mechanic which is not easy for an average, casual player.

[Grumar]

Couple things here:

1. The GM was correct for kicking the RL only because since she is her fiancee she is more important than the entire raid and guild combined and that is a fact. Even if she is a bad player she is more important than them.

2. The RL should of made sure who was connected to who, looking for couples and groups of friends and what not in the guild. Fact is you don't want to piss of a GM or officer unless you are an officer or GM.

3. Dodging Attenuation on heroic isn't overly complicated, she is bad if she was struggling on it. He only excuse would be she was having a trouble healing others while dodging in which case the solution would of been to let them die and worry about herself. They would get a mouth full not her

4. Regardless of the situation a RL needs to keep his/her cool, venting and raging is just poor leadership and shows you have poor control over yourself. You can be mad but keep calm, at the end of the raid you deal with the bads and have them replaced. Talk to them and tell them they are gone. I only give a few exceptions to raid leaders who have had it hard over the years and just snap, I give them a break since after all we are human.

5. This is a code I try to live by which is avoiding raiding guilds with couples, my main concern is it almost always becomes a 2v1. If the wife is bad the husband jumps in, if the husband is bad the wife jumps in. Obviously I understand that but I just prefer to raid with people who aren't package deals. If someone is bad and can't increase their skill/raid awareness replace them. Now there are a few exceptions but they are few and far between in my experience @_@


Those are just what I believe though, take it for what you will xD

Man this guy got it down to a T.
Only people defending this RL are people who also have no self control over their anger and emotions and also love to belittle people over a game because they are "better" then them.

[Drusin]

Hahahaha oh man as being a former top tier raider yeah I've heard people cry hell even cry to me on skype / vent from time to time. You wanna know how my raid life was life in Woltk? Here I'll give you all a just of it

Yeah people will cry if they are treated like this.

OT: For me people like this is what made me play better. To each their own though.

No i've never had anyone cry in my guild and the guy from that video compared to my RL was wooing me with poetry.

- - - Updated - - -

Man this guy got it down to a T. Only people defending this RL are people who also have no self control over their anger and emotions and also love to belittle people over a game because they are "better" then them.

Noooope, I expect that attitude as it was the environment I was raised in (raiding raised). I keep to myself now though as players have become more sensitive and you can't even just say something like "if you use your trinket you'll do more dps". So I stopped helping altogether, trade chat will feast upon their souls.

[roahn the warlock]

Some of them talked back and obviously got the boot or ''Got told to stfu'' or other shit like that. Some of us just ignored it aka me yada yada I've been in multiple types of these guilds in terms of raid leaders and such.

Shit's not exactly a fun time mind you.

Hell one time this top tier guild got fucking mad because people were doing loot wrong that shit was funny as fuck and sad at the same time.

I've had three raid leaders like that. I went off on them.. and if you do it right.. it's funny. They will usually shut the fuck up.

[Celista]

So after the 4th wipe on heroic, he just goes berserk on the healers, which are mostly females, calling them names etc. And then we hear someone crying and its a girl. Anyways someone comes on vent and cusses our raid leader out and kicked him out the guild. It was the GM and the girl was his fiancee nd they were engaged. So personal story out the way, has your raid leader ever made someone cry?

Not as a raid lead, but I have made people cry as a healing lead...also at work....I'm female :P I'm not mean, just bluntly honest, some females can't take that. I've since softened my approach somewhat, but man did I lose my temper recently when our resto shaman said she "got a text" (in this extremely bored-sounding tone) in vent during one of our alt runs, and tabbed out in the middle of a boss encounter....she got a massive earful in private chat later. :P Stuff like that makes our guild look bad when our guild does public runs and is well-respected on our server.

[Nobleshield]

It always amazes me how raid leaders think they're some badass and can cuss/insult other people. Unless they're some 12-year old, any adult should understand how to talk to others, and yelling and screaming isn't the correct way. But it's typical in today's workplace as well - some buffoon gets promoted to manager and thinks that the right way to manage is to "rule by fear", and it seems that has bled over into games as well.

If I ever had somebody like that rage at me, I'd basically tell them to fuck off, and leave the group. This is a GAME, played for FUN. Fun doesn't entail being yelled at by some internet tough guy.

[JudgePayne]

If some one is failing then its also the raid leaders failure, clearly if someone is having difficulty on a tactic it is up to the raid leader to help them better themselves not just curse and insult said person.

If there was a few of you guys on while this was going on I would told him to STFU and get back to raid leading and stop nerd raging.

[Deffry]

It always amazes me how raid leaders think they're some badass and can cuss/insult other people. Unless they're some 12-year old, any adult should understand how to talk to others, and yelling and screaming isn't the correct way. But it's typical in today's workplace as well - some buffoon gets promoted to manager and thinks that the right way to manage is to "rule by fear", and it seems that has bled over into games as well.

If I ever had somebody like that rage at me, I'd basically tell them to fuck off, and leave the group. This is a GAME, played for FUN. Fun doesn't entail being yelled at by some internet tough guy.

Tbh. there are people who like this approach. Back in the TBC and WotLK I used to raid in guild, where RL was simply an asshole. He was yelling, he was calling names etc. . If you screwed up something, he made you feel like a worthless scum. And I am quite sure, the attitude of our raid leader, was the reason why we were able to progress through SWP until to M'uru.

There is not so much people who love it like this, but we were still able to fill our roster, because people, who LOVE to be under HUGE pressure, really exist.

We were great players back then, but I am quite sure, that constant threat of RL's anger, was pushing us beyond level of average BT MH raiders.

I do not say, that it is good nor that it is healthy approach, but it works for some small percentage of people.

[Wildtree]

It's good to see how many disapprove of the RL's behavior.. Means, not all hope is lost..
Now the next step would be to outcast that type of self entitled jerks. What they don't realize is, how much of a bigger failure they are, compared to those who may make some mistake during some pixel moving on a computer. They are a much bigger failure, because they fail on the most simple Real Life tasks...

[Lord Blackmore]

Second thing, being a good raid leader means you do what you have to do

A good raid leader needs to know how to lead a diverse group of people, all with different personalities. Too many alleged "good" raid leaders take a one size fits all approach with is, in fact, poor leadership. The key to leading any group of people is to understand what motivates them and being able to tune the feedback so that the recipient is willing to accept it and can be motivated to change whatever behavior needs to be changed. Some people do need a virtual dope slap to get the message and others need a different approach.

For example, I effin hate getting yelled at in raids. If I make a mistake, I already know I made a mistake, I usually know what I need to do differently and just as important, I've already owned up to the mistake to the other raiders. All yelling at me is going to do is piss me off.

I agree with the point that raid leaders need support from others who can take some of the weight so that the raid leader isn't always the villian.

[superbotje]

My old guildleader went totally berserk on a rogue once.

Rogue /gquit, went offline and i never saw him online again after that.

[Deleted]

You either need to get rid of him, or have stronger officers. Someone should speak against these kinds of people.

A lot of you are saying the problem is one angry teen in a position of power, which is true. However, I'd argue its just as much the fault of other people. People on WoW are notoriously two-faced. They'll ramble on about how bad their leader is in /w but never SAY anything to the person. Without someone from the crowd sticking up for the victim of this abuse, the guy will never learn. Kicking him outright won't teach him anything and won't make you guys any better at sticking up for oneanother.

We have an angry raid-leader in our guild. He's pretty fine most of the time but if we've wiped excessively he can go overboard and a little mental. I usually (even just as a member) say "Well that shouting was absolutely pointless, shall we continue and try again?". The key in confronting these people over mumble, TS, vent, w/e. These guys that rage all the time are usually the weakest and most fragile beings INRL anyway, and I don't mean in a physical sense. They're easily broken.

Or, alternatively, if you're not the person he's shouting at and you're in a position of power, e.g. a tank, just threaten to leave if this sort of bullshit treatment of members continues. It works for me.