People who think the game is too easy now

[checking facts]

I think they really should turn off all their addons and delete all their macros, put on their default blizz UI and try again.

it's not blizz's fault if you decided to let addons play half of the game for you, and the game has to be tuned for people that play without them

[Roguezor]

10/13 ToT HC... I only use recount, NPCscan and reforgelite as addons (rocking basic wow UI).

Macro.. well... I only have a few, and it's mostly "all CDs in 1 button macro" kinds of stuff. Still think a lot of the game is dumbed down and made kinda easy, but here's the twist: It still got "hard" stuff aswell. It's a lot of everything really.

[Viscoe]

I hate it when people say Addons play the game for you.

If they did that, then we'd all be banned for botting.

[Darsithis]

It caters to everyone. No one needs to remove their addons or macros. There is challenge to be found for people who want it.

[Goatfish]

I did hardmode raiding through the end of wrath including getting close to some world firsts and holding some major healing records and feats without ever downloading DBM. In fact the only add-ons I used were Grid, Clique, and Dominoes which only made configuring the UI easier and removed a bunch of wasted space on the base UI. Using only the base UI as a healer (especially back in TBC and WotLK) is bad, and if you did/do it you should feel bad.

As far as things actually hand holding for you such as DBM, I am of the opinion that some people need a little hand holding, and I would rather an add-on do it rather than forcing me to. If you are able to play without it, it should actually improve your performance by not having all sorts of shit flying across your screen that doesn't need to be there.

PS: Macros are part of the game, built into the game. By not using them you are not playing the game to its full potential. You might as well say that if the game is too easy you should take off your trinkets before raiding.

[checking facts]

I hate it when people say Addons play the game for you.

If they did that, then we'd all be banned for botting.

a big part of skill is to be able to pay attention at numerous places at the same time. as an example: if you are a demo lock and an addon tells you every time you get that 4 seconds proc from unerring vision of lei shen, than the addon is playing 90% of that mechanic for you. all you have to do is to cast doom twice. if an addon makes a loud noise every time you are in the fire, all you have to do is to move away, you don't even need to look at your feet. they play a big chunk of the game for you, and all you do is to play the part that the game would consider it botting if it was otherwise.

[Netherspark]

Why is it when people talk about the game being "too easy" that everyone thinks they're talking only about raiding?

[Archangel Tyrael]

I think they really should turn off all their addons and delete all their macros, put on their default blizz UI and try again.

it's not blizz's fault if you decided to let addons play half of the game for you, and the game has to be tuned for people that play without them

I never used any add-ons to raid other than Tuk UI.

What now?

[Deleted]

Hm meh yeah. So the guy who uses neither addons, keybindings or anything else and still beats bosses with average performance is a monster? Like some TV dude who puts on weights and battles? I don't buy it.
And if someone is a monster he still could use addons cook while beating wol rankings & 13/13hc everything else would be wasted time for him... I mean if you have capacities use them... Still... no.

[checking facts]

Hm meh yeah. So the guy who uses neither addons, keybindings or anything else and still beats bosses with average performance is a monster? Like some TV dude who puts on weights and battles? I don't buy it.
And if someone is a monster he still could use addons cook while beating wol rankings & 13/13hc everything else would be wasted time for him... I mean if you have capacities use them... Still... no.

no, he's just skilled. if you raid without addons and you still find the game too easy, grats, you are very skilled and I commend you for that.

but I find it rather sad when people complain about everything being so easy, when they can't do anything without DBM, power auras or what-not.

- - - Updated - - -

Why is it when people talk about the game being "too easy" that everyone thinks they're talking only about raiding?

so, you mean to tell me that there are no addons, macros or UIs for PvP?

[Szarala]

I'm lovin all the people saying "I don't use any AddOns, except...."

[iamthedevil]

I do believe you have to be more skilled to be able to manage and utilize a set of addons. Default UI is the easy way.

[TheSerialSniper]

I think they really should turn off all their addons and delete all their macros, put on their default blizz UI and try again.

it's not blizz's fault if you decided to let addons play half of the game for you, and the game has to be tuned for people that play without them

I have yet to see any of the top guilds say the game has gotten to easy by any means.

I do remember one of them breaking up because they could no longer keep up.

[Tripwire]

The game is "too easy" depending on what you want to get from it. With a lot of people "End Game" is the ultimate goal... you can do Raid Finder and finish the game = too easy. A lot of people will argue Raid Finder isn't End Game, but it is, just a different degree of difficulty, in the end you see the same thing, and that's the way Blizz wants it.

[nekobaka]

I think they really should turn off all their addons and delete all their macros, put on their default blizz UI and try again.

it's not blizz's fault if you decided to let addons play half of the game for you, and the game has to be tuned for people that play without them

I have healed heroic raids with just grid because I like the smaller form factor which took up less screen space, I dont see how it played the game for me. Blizzard has added more information to the raid bars and added a spell proc alert to the UI along with other things like a threat display as well. The talk about too easy now isnt about the most challenging content, it is about how there is such a large gap bellow it in terms of difficulty where assistance addons are moot and many of these players dont use macros to begin with. Players used to have to think and carefully pull mobs while in leveling dungeons and use CC, now it has become an AoE mindless grind all up until normal/heroic raiding.

[Deleted]

I have yet to see any of the top guilds say the game has gotten to easy by any means.

I do remember one of them breaking up because they could no longer keep up.

If we're talking about raiding then the game isn't easy in the first few weeks when you're doing bosses as they're meant to be done (without masses of gear and practice and maybe a few bugs thrown in there too) but right now with the gear upgrade system and such, it's far too easy. Lei Shen & Ra-den were easily doable at 528-530ilvl~ and actually had dps/hps checks and high skill requirements but that's now been blown out of the water with legendary metas/cloaks and raiders easily pushing 540ilvl+.

[Solidsteel]

WoW still has challenging things in it and nobody is arguing that. When people are talking about WoW being dumbed down they are comparing today's game with Vanilla/BC. There used to be challenge in almost the entire game you wouldn't have to go look for it. I found it more fun then and don't like how easy it has become in some aspects but that is my opinion.

[jbombard]

Also it isn't simple straight up difficulty. It is pacing and rate of progress. Leveling in the game is so absurdly fast now that people are trained to expect rewards with little to no work.

The hardest part about raiding wasn't the encounters once you had all the stuff you needed like resist gear and consumables. The hardest part was getting 40 people to show up at a specific time and getting all the resist gear, consumables and other crap you needed for the 40 people who were coming.

The game has plenty of difficulty in it now if you want it, the problem IMHO isn't that so much is how fast and easy progression is from level 1 all the way up to max, including the max level gear grind.(the rate at which people gear up now compared to vanilla is like night and day)

[blackblade]

Also it isn't simple straight up difficulty. It is pacing and rate of progress. Leveling in the game is so absurdly fast now that people are trained to expect rewards with little to no work.

The hardest part about raiding wasn't the encounters once you had all the stuff you needed like resist gear and consumables. The hardest part was getting 40 people to show up at a specific time and getting all the resist gear, consumables and other crap you needed for the 40 people who were coming.

The game has plenty of difficulty in it now if you want it, the problem IMHO isn't that so much is how fast and easy progression is from level 1 all the way up to max, including the max level gear grind.(the rate at which people gear up now compared to vanilla is like night and day)

What's the saying? "40 raiders, 2 Pieces of loot?"

[darkwarrior42]

a big part of skill is to be able to pay attention at numerous places at the same time. as an example: if you are a demo lock and an addon tells you every time you get that 4 seconds proc from unerring vision of lei shen, than the addon is playing 90% of that mechanic for you. all you have to do is to cast doom twice. if an addon makes a loud noise every time you are in the fire, all you have to do is to move away, you don't even need to look at your feet. they play a big chunk of the game for you, and all you do is to play the part that the game would consider it botting if it was otherwise.

I assume you also don't use action bars? After all, all the action bars do is let you put all the spells in your spellbook in one place, using the action bars is letting them do 90% of the work for you....


You're taking interface and interaction difficulties and disguising them as legitimate difficulty. I could think of a hundred ways to make the game more difficult (play with only the mouse or with only the keyboard, turn my monitor off and play by sound only, play only by watching my character on my wife's monitor as she plays in the same group on her own character, choose not to take half my talents, etc), but these things are not increasing the actual difficulty of the game. They're artificial masks.

Using addons to display information in a more logical fashion doesn't make the game easier, it reduces artificial modifiers that increase apparent difficulty for reasons that have nothing to do with player skill. If, having done so, the game is easy, then the game was always easy; the only thing that made it seem difficult was a poorly designed UI.