Why do lesser skilled players feel entitled to see content?

[Brodeo]

By the same token, you removed the main barrier that drove people away from dungeons and raiding in the past--an acidic PuGging community. It goes both ways--on the server I played on in BC, warriors were expected to be tanking heroics because otherwise, it's a wasted slot that could go to a class with worthwhile CC. Even posting in LFG as a DPS warrior in lower than t5 was to invite scorn and abuse from everyone and their sister. The raid scene was comprised of rampant guild poaching left and right, and getting into a guild was next to impossible if you weren't in t5 or content to rot in a t4 feeder guild (unless you distinguished yourself well enough to get poached and boosted by an SSC/TK guild looking to replace members lost to Vashj or Kael).

Blizzard listened, and made Wrath accessible. Hardcore players complained about it being too easy. Blizzard listened... and when the Cata 5-mans were harder than the Wrath 5-mans even post-nerf, Cata tanked hard, and only stabilized in 4.3 (which was, let's face it, a poorly-designed raid with little staying power for more reasons than just LFR, leading to bleeds picking back up). In MoP, we saw sub drops, yes--mainly in the Eastern markets where free-play has experienced a huge surge in popularity. We have dramatic unsubbing and resubbing every patch because Eastern players burn through the content, get bored, and go play a free-play MMO, and Western players burn through the content, come here, and bitch about easy mode (I kid, I kid).

Those are all fixable complaints. Same with attunements. Those arguments dont justify LFR, and those issues werent solved by it. LFR isnt the answer. I had a great time in BC even if i was newer and never got to BC when it was relevant. Mostly because i had something to look forward to and something to work at. If i had killed it all in lfr then the whole experience would have been shit.

[Vorret]

You don't have time to be good, then be bad and deal with it.

I never entered the masters league in sc2 and will probably never enter it, I'm fine with it. Be fine with the fact you don't have what it takes to raid and stop crying on the boards that you have to see the content because you paid, but will never put any effort into it.

You know who's crying? Everyone else but the one playing in LFR.
Weird uh?

[Phasma]

Without LFR to justify the raid funding, they would've continued making raids like Dragon Soul and put the money into more casual endgame content for their majority player base. With LFR, half the playerbase at level 90 has done it (I believe were the cited numbers), making it infinitely easier to justify BC levels of raid design budgeting like we saw with the t14 and t15 environments.

So you wouldn't consider SoO similar to Dragon Soul? Reused environments galore. I really want to see those cited numbers.

[Brodeo]

I would say that if a community needs a physical incentive apart from what already exists to be a community it is inherently broken and no program added onto it broke it.

In other words, LFG / LFR didn't hurt the community. The community hurt the community.

What physical incentive? You dont think a community that doesnt require anyone within it to interact with others is flawed?

[Neodawn]

Because they are paying a monthly fee same as you. What they aren't entitled to is the same in-game items which is the incentive to play better.

[melodramocracy]

No. Wow has established itself as the leader in raid design (totally undisputed). Everquest has died, cause it was inferior. That is all.

The irony here is that WoW wouldn't exist without all it's genre shaping predecessors.

[Deleted]

I dunno if there's a demand or not. There probably is, or at least was, since they added the LFR system at all. Anyway, I want to point out that you (OP) are wrong to assume that every casual player that uses the LFR system does so because we don't like more challenging content, or aren't good enough to do normal and even heroic raids. I stopped raiding normal and heroic because it demanded too much of my time. If I sign for a raid, and something more fun comes up IRL, like a friend wanting to see me, I'll piss off a bunch of people if I don't show up for the raid. Worse yet, you lock yourself out of anything happening in RL for several hours when you raid with a guild.
Most guilds I've experienced show little to no understanding that you may, in fact, have a life outside of this game, and that it should take precedence. Heck, I understand the reason for it: when you make a date with other people, whether you agree to meet in a virtual world or the real one, you promise those people your time, and they promise you theirs. Maybe I'm not alone to have fun stuff going on IRL; maybe some of the other raiders had stuff they could've done IRL, only chose to raid instead. Then I don't show up because I chose the RL stuff over raiding - of course it pisses them off!
My point is, RL should take precedence, and people should understand this. Unfortunately, some people don't, presumably because they can't relate to situations like that themselves.

That's why LFR was a real treat for players like me. I get to taste the end content. I get to fight in a raid, and get cool items too. Sure, my character will never be as well-geared or impressive as those of players that raid normal and heroic tiers, but it's alright - I'm only looking for a taste of the experience. I'm missing out on alot of fun challenges, but not so much as I could have, if I only had heroic dungeons and scenarios to complete. This is why LFR was the best thing ever, and why I think it should stay.

[Bombino]

I think the OP's question is irrelevant, it's bad for business to not let everyone see the same stuff in game.

[The One Percent]

The only problem with LFR is that the gear shares the same model as Heroic mode gear. Anything below Heroic raids should use the same model as the dungeon cloth, leather, mail, plate sets and weapons, maybe with a few extra spikes and particle effects per raid tier. You should be able to see a Heroic raider out of a crowd of a hundred immediately. That is just my opinion. Everything else about lfr is fine.

[Hyoue]

Me personally on this whole matter, as a casual now after so many years of hardcore, I am getting sick of LFR, Scenarios..I want the good ole Hard as shit heroics back, and me I really don't care if I see the content anymore even for how much of a lore whore I am. LFR has ruined raiding for me, Months of doing ToT for the legendary and still sitting at one Titan runestone and that was pre Leishen buff, I just can't do it anymore, I want to get my last 11 stones...but it is so boring it's the same thing, over and over and over the same wipes, the same mistakes on Leishen and Durumu for the same horribad pugs that sit on their thumbs during a pull. I can't take it so much to the point that I really want to stop playing after 8 years because of LFR. I've tried 10 man raiding but again even with changed and harder mechanics...it's BORING. LFR needs to either be removed or changed so that if you have anything to do you do it and get it over with. I don't want to have to waste 6 hours a week with the same morons doing the same thing. If I had started ToT with a real raid group, hell I probably wouldn't have even posted in this thread. Yet I go along with friends saying "Come LFR with me" "Help me kill LFR bosses." It just ruins regular raiding for me...ruins it.

[Payback]

I mean its not like they could have got rid of pet battles or other needless things when WOW took a massive nosedive after they went after raiding. They would have put money back into raiding or watched the game die, its that simple.

Since before LFR 90% of the player base didn't raid, I fail to see how subscriptions would drop by more than that if they completely removed raiding, 90% of the player base wouldn't have even noticed.

[melodramocracy]

The only problem with LFR is that the gear shares the same model as Heroic mode gear. Anything below normal should use the same model as the dungeon cloth, leather, mail and plate sets, maybe with a few extra spikes and particle effects per raid tier. You should be able to see a Heroic raider out of a crowd of a hundred immediately. That is just my opinion. Everything else about lfr is fine.

I have absolutely no problem with that.

[Choptimus]

I'm missing out on alot of fun challenges, but not so much as I could have, if I only had heroic dungeons and scenarios to complete. This is why LFR was the best thing ever, and why I think it should stay.

So LFR is more of a challenge compared to hc dungeons/scenarios/challenge modes?

What?

You said you miss out on a lot of fun challenges, but LFR gives you more. LFR is a fun challenge? If you want a casual paced challenge do challenge modes? Or have you got all golds already?

LFR is not a fun challenge, if you consider it to be a fun challenge you are a bad player.

[Deleted]

The irony here is that WoW wouldn't exist without all it's genre shaping predecessors.

I pretty much know this as Blizzard hired Everquest players to actually create wow.

[Payback]

I have absolutely no problem with that.

Except there isn't the slightest scintilla of a chance of Blizzard spending that much money on new artwork for 0.5% of the player base.

[Ragedaug]

I swear, the only demands I see are from the 'hardcore' demanding content be restricted to them, even if that content being made available to others does not, will not and can not affect them in any way. This has been discussed over and over, here and elsewhere and frankly it's just pointless to even ask anymore.

This is the only demanding and QQ I see as well. The lesser skilled players simply quit. Blizzard is continuing to nerf content to stem the tide or quitting.

[ngc2440]

Me personally on this whole matter, as a casual now after so many years of hardcore, I am getting sick of LFR, Scenarios..I want the good ole Hard as shit heroics back, and me I really don't care if I see the content anymore even for how much of a lore whore I am. LFR has ruined raiding for me, Months of doing ToT for the legendary and still sitting at one Titan runestone and that was pre Leishen buff, I just can't do it anymore, I want to get my last 11 stones...but it is so boring it's the same thing, over and over and over the same wipes, the same mistakes on Leishen and Durumu for the same horribad pugs that sit on their thumbs during a pull. I can't take it so much to the point that I really want to stop playing after 8 years because of LFR. I've tried 10 man raiding but again even with changed and harder mechanics...it's BORING. LFR needs to either be removed or changed so that if you have anything to do you do it and get it over with. I don't want to have to waste 6 hours a week with the same morons doing the same thing. If I had started ToT with a real raid group, hell I probably wouldn't have even posted in this thread. Yet I go along with friends saying "Come LFR with me" "Help me kill LFR bosses." It just ruins regular raiding for me...ruins it.

Sounds more like you are tired of raiding, period. Might I suggest stepping away from the game for a while or possibly picking up a different mmo.

[Orange Joe]

There is no hate. Topic is: Why doesn't people want to learn instead of wanting to learn? Would you receive welfare IRL or work a good job?

Because it's a game. It meant to be fun. They don't find researching things fun.

[Lorianas]

I think WoW is going down the toilet

To OP: WoW went down the toilet after Burning Crusade it's just fallen THIS far.

[Phasma]

Because they are paying a monthly fee same as you. What they aren't entitled to is the same in-game items which is the incentive to play better.

What if I were to pay a monthly fee and never play? When I log in, should I get to experience all the content everyone else put time into seeing? Time is money. If you put time into the game, you are essentially paying more than the person that never plays. So, no, you don't pay the same as someone else. That argument is so terrible with no backing and I have yet to see a person justify it.