Why do lesser skilled players feel entitled to see content?

[almaderp]

well I believe the argument is "I payed for it"

[anaxie]

Admittedly I only read the last few pages but you alternate between telling tales of how you are so great that you inspire other people and posting how not all Heroic Raiders are elitist jerks.

I hate to tell you this but giving those poor LFR raiders a pat on the head and a "good job champ" is still being a jerk. You just happen to be a condescending one.

This made me smile. You actually did a good job describing me in the last line

[Glorious Leader]

Me? lol ok. Your the one who's only argument is people were mean to you.

No. The argument is that people excluded others from raids for whatever reasons. They did. That's not happening anymore.

[namelessone]

Jeez seriously? pretty toxic attitude you have there. maybe there is a reason "gatekeepers" exclude you from what it sounds like.

Thank you for helping me to prove my point. You think it's okay to exclude people from playing a game if you don't like their "attitude". This is exactly the power-tripping bullshit I'm talking about.

[Glorious Leader]

I play 4 hours a week currently. This cycle can go on for up to 4 months at a time. During raiding I play roughly 16-20 hours a week IN AND OUTSIDE raids total. Yes I am very very casual.

4 hours a week is very casual.
16-20 hours a week is not very casual. At all actually.

In terms of skill and time you are not casual.

[GrieverXIII]

How about we just get our normals back? Tuned sane. That's been the problem of this expansion for every tier so far. Normal is tuned wrong and flex is being added to try to address that. For myself, I am not going to do it, I just want the normal content we use to get back.

I can actually agree with this. There was no need for LFR or Flex during WolTK for example because Naxx, Normal ToGC and ICC were pretty easy, and also had 10man versions that were both even easier in both organisation and difficulty. So there was a little bit for everyone else. Meanwhile i feel the current normal mode raids just don't fit for anybody anymore. Heroic raiding guilds are still stomping them the week they are released, with the less successful ones maybe killing the last boss on the second or 3rd lockout at most while they seem too hard for the average casual guild and pugs.

[Robert3620]

No because THERE NEEDS TO BE A LADDER SYSTEM. Normals are fine as is as a stepping stone. The issue is the LFR to Normal jump. It's rediculous and the bar for LFR needs to be raised. Flex has got to be this solution. I'm a little more concerned what LFR players are going to do when all the REAL raidiers normal and heroic take their freetime and alternative gearing methods to flex raiding instead.

That's part of the problem and something a lot of people are failing to see. You broke your ladder and lfr has nothing to do with it. Those lesser guilds where people would start to raid faded away this expansion because normal was tuned beyond them. Where do you think most people started raiding? They started in those social guilds that were doing normals and making their way threw the content in a much slower way. Those guilds got destroyed this expansion. It's hard for a newer player to break into raiding when the bar is set so high, as it is now, we needed those social guilds and were paying a price for seeing them get destroyed.

[Otimus]

Isn't it obvious? Tier sets. Once Tier went to LFR that's when people started complaining. Would you be averse to having LFR just drop normal epics with no tier? It shouldn't be a problem right? After all, you still get gear and content, just not gear that looks good together unless you mog it.

I don't see why it's necessary to punish LFR users to make a small few others happy.

[Nemah]

I play 4 hours a week currently. This cycle can go on for up to 4 months at a time. During raiding I play roughly 16-20 hours a week IN AND OUTSIDE raids total. Yes I am very very casual.

Yes, believe it or not those people exist. Our guild is working heroic content in ToT on a 6 hour a week raiding schedule. It just takes time management and a little bit of commitment.

[namelessone]

1: You really are an unappealing character who seems to failt o show any kind of effort into your character; or
2: You are on a server that is so under-populated that there are so few pugs they can marginalize the players they take.

You seem to miss the point. Players should not be able to limit each other's ability to play the game FOR ANY REASON. Even if you are the most unappealing, newbish, unenchanted, undergeared fail, no other player should be able to say "sorry mate, you aren't going to play this game you paid for".

[anaxie]

Thought you were done and looking for another MMO like eight pages ago, Brandon.

Yeah as far as getting his opinions across I can hardly read it let alone support it.

[highdesi]

I propose solo raids. That way everyone wins and they can get their challenge.

I hate to say this, but at the end of the day. Its just a game. Some people shouldn't get so uptight about who plays what difficulty, they are enjoying their game and so should you.

[Glorious Leader]

I can actually agree with this. There was no need for LFR or Flex during WolTK for example because Naxx, Normal ToGC and ICC were pretty easy, and also had 10man versions that were both even easier in both organisation and difficulty. So there was a little bit for everyone else. Meanwhile i feel the current normal mode raids just don't fit for anybody anymore. Heroic raiding guilds are still stomping them the week they are released, with the less successful ones maybe killing the last boss on the second or 3rd lockout at most while they seem too hard for the average casual guild and pugs.

Because the same group of players now (or at least many of the same members and their spiritual brothers and sisters) were complaining about how easy things were then and about welfare epics and lamenting for tbc. I don't think normal modes fit anybody but I think lfr fits ALOT of people and so will flex. I see normals going the way of the dinosaur however. Flex will just become the new normal.

[GrieverXIII]

well I believe the argument is "I payed for it"

I paid for the first Ninja Gaiden game when on Xbox when i was 12 and couldn't beat it (i fully admit i sucked at it). Think they would had gave me a refund?

[wordup]

You seem to miss the point. Players should not be able to limit each other's ability to play the game FOR ANY REASON. Even if you are the most unappealing, newbish, unenchanted, undergeared fail, no other player should be able to say "sorry mate, you aren't going to play this game you paid for".

Actually, they are, because this isn't Red Faction, you are playing WITH other people. This is like me saying "Well, hey, I subbed for 2 years in TBC and paid £160 in subs, why should these noobs in MoP get to play TBC content without paying £160 as well?" I dare you to tell me that's a logical statement, because it isn't. People are getting HUGE amounts of free content joining this late, and people continue to play that free content trivialised or not.

[namelessone]

I paid for the first Ninja Gaiden game when on Xbox when i was 12 and couldn't beat it (i fully admit i sucked at it). Think they would had gave me a refund?

Good point. But you couldn't beat Ninja Gaiden because the game was designed by DEVELOPERS to be hard, not because other people who own Ninja Gaiden thought you don't deserve it.

[Dormie]

You seem to miss the point. Players should not be able to limit each other's ability to play the game FOR ANY REASON. Even if you are the most unappealing, newbish, unenchanted, undergeared fail, no other player should be able to say "sorry mate, you aren't going to play this game you paid for".

Playing the wrong game bud. No one is limiting you, you can literally enter the raid, you just won't down anything without others besides you. It's your own fault that you can't put in the minimal effort that is required to actually do the content.

Again, you can play the game you paid for, BUT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO PLAY IT.

Yeah as far as getting his opinions across I can hardly read it let alone support it.

Probably because I give up on doing that when it's met with such idiocy. I'd keep trying if it didn't keep happening.

It seems literally out of LFRers comprehension. I don't mean that in an insulting way, but there is an aspect of the game they literally do not get.

WHen you need multiple levels of difficulty in an MMORPG, youre playing the wrong game.

[anaxie]

What masochist wants to climb that ladder?

The people who raid these days are all about min-maxing, logs, theorycrafting, strats, endless reams of bullshit that most players are rightfully entirely uninterested in, because they are sane.

Socializing? Carrying your friends? Fooling around? Meh. It's more about every week find the weak link, and replace him. See you later, baddie!

Sounds like fun to me!

Pretty much sums up your understanding of raiding. You just don't understand and you cannot grasp the concepts. I pity you. I truly do.

[Glorious Leader]

I paid for the first Ninja Gaiden game when on Xbox when i was 12 and couldn't beat it (i fully admit i sucked at it). Think they would had gave me a refund?

It's funny you brought that game up actually. I was thinking about it today and prior to ninja gaiden I can't think of a single game I played where I ever felt the distinction that it was hardcore vs casual. Going back to the glory days of pc gaming in the 90's (epic mega games, origin, westwood) I never once felt that their was that distinction. Even most xbox games I didn't feel that distinction. I wonder when that split became so much more pronounced in gaming...

[Zillidan]

I feel i am skilled enough to raid in wow, the problem is i have no time. LFR is a good solution for that