Itemsquish reminder

[want my Slimjim]

Item squish is bad, it would just be lame going back to vanilla dps and health.

[threads]

Don't lower the numbers, just fix the insane scaling that's happening.

[Kryos]

Don't lower the numbers, just fix the insane scaling that's happening.

The scaling is the result of the actual system. I think Blizzard is pushing it right now until the people get angry. Soon even having a weapon from the next raid tier will double the dps since it's an exponential scaling system. The even casuals will get angry and ask for a change. It think that's one of the reasons why they implemented flex raiding and raised the itemlevel once more.

Always maximum level items:

Vanilla = 26 il:
t1 = il 66
t2 = il 76
t3 = il 92

BC = 62 il
t4 = il 120
t5 = il 133
t6 = il 154

Wotlk = 123 il
t7 = il 200
t8 = il 226
t9 = il 245
t10 = il 277

Cataclysm: 133 il
t11 = il 372
t12 = il 391
t13 = il 410

Pandaria: 156 il
t14 = il 509
t15 = il 535
t16 = il 566

So if this continues we will start T17 with itemlevel ~660 and end the next expansion with T19 il 750 heroic gear.

Crowe made this nice graph to show the problem:

[Vargur]

Yeah, I remember having 0.01 health in classic, it was cra- oh wait no that never happened.

They need to scale down the increments AFTER level 60, as the graph in the OP shows, nothings wrong with the 1-60 scaling, it wasn't a steep curve back then, only recent expansions felt the need to shove 80 ilevels between raids.

I like my 120 ilvls between tiers, thank you. And I like seeing bigger and bigger numbers.

@OP: In your futile attempt to "remind" us, you even got the thread's title wrong btw.

[Kryos]

I like my 120 ilvls between tiers, thank you. And I like seeing bigger and bigger numbers.

More like 180 or more next time.

@OP: In your futile attempt to "remind" us, you even got the thread's title wrong btw.

Because I made it a single word? That's because I'm german and we melt words together to create new ones My bad.

But Blizzard also thinks this is a problem and is waiting for the right time to do the squish.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/9995063/

[Aquamonkey]

--snip--

Here's the ilvl chart with MoP included and up to level 100.

[want my Slimjim]

Here's the ilvl chart with MoP included and up to level 100.

why not be able to one shot things? past content is over with, but you wouldn't be able to one shot current content ofcourse.

[Aquamonkey]

why not be able to one shot things? past content is over with, but you wouldn't be able to one shot current content ofcourse.

With scaling as out of control as this, you'd be able to 1-shot things of the current expansion.

[huth]

We're not even remotely close to that.

Crowe made this nice graph to show the problem:

What problem? That graph doesn't show any problems. Just two exponential and one linear graph. Exponential growth by itself is no more of a problem than linear growth is.
The so-called "ideal" MMO would get serious problems with upgrades feeling pointless by expansion 4, though.

I also don't see why you think people would get angry about getting bigger upgrades. They tend to react with the opposite feeling to that.

[Moogin]

Who really cares what numbers mean as long as things die. Item squish is not needed unless Blizz wants to read or hear from forum posters crying over smaller numbers just for kicks.

[Williee]

I love it, I don't have full raiding gear and I pop might of ursoc + bm trinket and I got 1m hp DD
Felt like a raid boss hehe

[Rabian]

Personally I enjoyed the game the most in BC as far as numbers go, when a geared tank had like 18k health and 1.5k dps was pretty good. Upgrades were still quite noticeable to performance but you could still have a few pieces of Kara gear even later on in the expansion. As things are now, each patch makes the entire last tier obsolete, which just seems kind of depressing.

[Aquamonkey]

I also don't see why you think people would get angry about getting bigger upgrades. They tend to react with the opposite feeling to that.

Unless they're on the receiving end of that gear discrepancy when someone globals them.

[Binary Speaker]

Meh I'm in favor of it but if it doesn't come oh well. I remember getting 10k crits for the first time. It was all "ZOMG NUMBARS!" now its just "Oh look I crit for 200k again. /yawn". But thats just me.

[huth]

"again" is the operative word, here. Anything becomes boring when it becomes routine. You didn't care a whole lot about 10k crits either once they became commonplace.

Unless they're on the receiving end of that gear discrepancy when someone globals them.

Which has become irrelevant due to the PvP changes.

[GrieverXIII]

I just don't see any valid reasons posted agains't the squish outside "MUH BIG NUMBARZ" and "Small numbers are "lame" (wat?"). It currently causes scaling issues, issues that will only become bigger as expansions are released. Balance feels borked, and honestly the game felt better when max level characters weren't olympian gods compared to everyone else. Pretty sure an entire 25man raid of lvl 89 players wouldn't be able to take an heroic ToT geared player by now (would also be a fun test).

There's 0 downsides to squishing numbers. Upgrades will be more noticable and everything will feel more logical. They even said they wouldn't touch your ability to solo old raids (even if i think allowing that to happen was a massive mistake, guess its like so many other wrong design turn that you just can't back from anymore).

[Rizendragon]

We're not even remotely close to that.


What problem? That graph doesn't show any problems. Just two exponential and one linear graph. Exponential growth by itself is no more of a problem than linear growth is.
The so-called "ideal" MMO would get serious problems with upgrades feeling pointless by expansion 4, though.

I also don't see why you think people would get angry about getting bigger upgrades. They tend to react with the opposite feeling to that.

It shows a scaling issue. That's something I haven't seen anyone that is against the squish actually address. The PvP changes haven't fixed scaling between geared players and entry level players. Being 1 season behind shouldn't put you at an almost automatic loss like it does now.

[huth]

It currently causes scaling issues, issues that will only become bigger as expansions are released. Balance feels borked, and honestly the game felt better when max level characters weren't olympian gods compared to everyone else.

That's due to iLvl differences within the expansion and has nothing to do with the squish.

At it's most basic, Blizzard wants to implement the squish by essentially ignoring raid gear for quest progression, but only up to the second to last expansion. After that, it's business as usual. As the scaling issues are due to gear progression during an expansion, not between expansions, they won't be affected by this at all.

Pretty sure an entire 25man raid of lvl 89 players wouldn't be able to take an heroic ToT geared player by now (would also be a fun test).

I doubt that. They'd probably turn him into a fine mist, fast. All the gear in the world doesn't help you when you can't act.

It shows a scaling issue. That's something I haven't seen anyone that is against the squish actually address. The PvP changes haven't fixed scaling between geared players and entry level players. Being 1 season behind shouldn't put you at an almost automatic loss like it does now.

Which is due to item level differences within a single expansion. Which a squish won't affect. You want Blizzard to lower the iLvl difference between tiers, because that's the only thing that affects scaling on the gear side.

Also, as said before, exponential growth is not an "issue" by itself.

[The Penguin]

Solo'ing raids is not an intended part of the game.

Also:

Will an item level squish affect our ability to solo older content? If it doesn't, I have no problem with it.
The goal is it will not affect your ability to solo older content. (Source)

Completely disagree. It was also already committed to, read the article "Fourty to the Power of One."

[Aquamonkey]

Completely disagree. It was also already committed to, read the article "Fourty to the Power of One."

On the entire internet, Google only comes up with 1 result (even with proper spelling) and it has nothing to do with anything.