Anyone else really hate the fact they're removing Burden of Guilt?

[Deleted]

I haven't seen many posts about this subject on this forum yet, and I guess it's because most people don't really care. I do. A lot actually. It's the one talent I really don't want to see gone, and now they're planning on removing it. I absolutely hate it. I don't want no stinkin' fear in return, I want my damn slow.

Am I alone on this?

EDIT: Talking mostly from a PvP perspective.

[Deleted]

Not a very useful talent, relatively indifferent. Although, it did scale with haste.

[BloodGutter]

I always use Fist of Justice, so not really. It was very situational for me to use it.

[whiteizgr8]

it sucks to lose it for me also, because i use it to solo the larger dino's on the island of giants. But to be fair....thats the only thing i used it for.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Can't hate on stupid decisions.
I can only pity them.


One can only ponder over how in their marvellous geniality they cant come up with a proper melee fighter toolkit for Ret.
Ret has NO TOOLS baseline to catch up to his target.
It is bloody awful, that they dont and wont give LAotL and/or BoG baseline.

Oh, and dont get me started on T30 if this new "Evil is a Point of View" goes live.
T30 is gonna be an awful tier.

[ipoststuff]

I hate it because ret doesnt have a choice in that tier. Its not like we have a choice in any tier but whatever.

[Deleted]

Don't think I ever used it. So, no, away with it.

[slime]

I hate it because ret doesnt have a choice in that tier. Its not like we have a choice in any tier but whatever.

I logged onto my 85 pally for the first time since coming back months ago. I went to do his talents and noticed that there didn't seem to be any Ret talents... lol they were all healing related / tank self healing related... or did i miss something?

[Morally Grey Storm]

I hate it because ret doesnt have a choice in that tier. Its not like we have a choice in any tier but whatever.

yeah, that's my main gripe with paladin talents aswell, especially regarding Ret' choices.
Because there are none.

I logged onto my 85 pally for the first time since coming back months ago. I went to do his talents and noticed that there didn't seem to be any Ret talents... lol they were all healing related / tank self healing related... or did i miss something?

no, you didnt.
Still, here's to the hoping we get at least once in a while a decent and imaginative approach.

[Deleted]

I logged onto my 85 pally for the first time since coming back months ago. I went to do his talents and noticed that there didn't seem to be any Ret talents... lol they were all healing related / tank self healing related... or did i miss something?

Tier 1: Mobility - I guess all Rets ride around in bikes now, they don't need this shit.
Tier 2: CC - Yea, nope, Rets don't really care about this, either, duh.
Tier 3: Healing. Does hold true to your argument, though I don't play a Paladin just to get to be a Warrior with shiny attacks.
Tier 4: Utility / Survivability - Yea, no, Rets, specially in PvP, really don't care about this either. Nope, give us Rend instead.
Tier 5: 3 choices directly related to DPS. Nope, still can't see what it has to do with Ret.
Tier 6: 3 choices of spells that can be used both offensively and defensively. Yea, I don't even look at this on my ret.

SUMMARY: Yep, you did miss a couple things.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Tier 1: Mobility - I guess all Rets ride around in bikes now, they don't need this shit.
Tier 2: CC - Yea, nope, Rets don't really care about this, either, duh.
Tier 3: Healing. Does hold true to your argument, though I don't play a Paladin just to get to be a Warrior with shiny attacks.
Tier 4: Utility / Survivability - Yea, no, Rets, specially in PvP, really don't care about this either. Nope, give us Rend instead.
Tier 5: 3 choices directly related to DPS. Nope, still can't see what it has to do with Ret.
Tier 6: 3 choices of spells that can be used both offensively and defensively. Yea, I don't even look at this on my ret.

SUMMARY: Yep, you did miss a couple things.

nice try, lets fly once more.



1. tier 1 sucks and has no choice for Ret, you either take LAotL, or you dont.
2. CC - yeah, Rets sure are great caster and take Repentance often, aswell as a ranged slow, because who needs a good reliable stun on a decent cd.
3. Healing. long-winded instant cast used mostly to heal other, bloody awful bubble , or a HoT, such a hard choice between Selfless Healer and... Selfless Healer.
4. bloody awful bubble/DP cd reduction, bloody specific anti-DoT Hand, and a monster and factual "A must" as a Ret in the face of Clemency.
5. There are no 3 "choices", there is just 1 talent you can pick to achieve decent results.
6. No choices again, you can pick only 1 that's decent.

Bottom line is: There is no choice.

[Faesroll]

nice try, lets fly once more.



1. tier 1 sucks and has no choice for Ret, you either take LAotL, or you dont.
2. CC - yeah, Rets sure are great caster and take Repentance often, aswell as a ranged slow, because who needs a good reliable stun on a decent cd.
3. Healing. long-winded instant cast used mostly to heal other, bloody awful bubble , or a HoT, such a hard choice between Selfless Healer and... Selfless Healer.
4. bloody awful bubble/DP cd reduction, bloody specific anti-DoT Hand, and a monster and factual "A must" as a Ret in the face of Clemency.
5. There are no 3 "choices", there is just 1 talent you can pick to achieve decent results.
6. No choices again, you can pick only 1 that's decent.

Bottom line is: There is no choice.

Outside of tier 2, I switch quite a lot between some of them and have uses for nearly every talent. There are choices, you just choose to not make them.

[slime]

I mean i did see the utility type stuff, and i didn't mean it was worthless to Ret - I guess I expected a few more dps (only ) talents in the tiers. But, please don't take anything I say as an insult - I don't mean it that way.. I was more curious as paladin is more an alt for me... plus DAAAAM they tank like a beast.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Outside of tier 2, I switch quite a lot between some of them and have uses for nearly every talent. There are choices, you just choose to not make them.

sure as sure, if you are a random BG hero, feel free to switch all you can.

But if we were talking about actual , high-rated pvp?

[Sett]

I liked BoG but FoJ always proved to be a bit more useful overall. Shame they're completely removing it though.

[Faesroll]

sure as sure, if you are a random BG hero, feel free to switch all you can.

But if we were talking about actual , high-rated pvp?

I was more talking in general in response to him not specifically about pvp. I actually prefer Sanctified Wrath and PoJ in pvp any day over the default LAotL/HA combo. But sure, there's no way around it that there are far less viable talents in pvp than pve.

And OT, I never found BoG a good choice for pvp, Seal of truth is kinda dire in pvp anyway so use Seal of justice/Fist of justice combo.

[Bijin]

I haven't seen many posts about this subject on this forum yet, and I guess it's because most people don't really care. I do. A lot actually. It's the one talent I really don't want to see gone, and now they're planning on removing it. I absolutely hate it. I don't want no stinkin' fear in return, I want my damn slow.

Am I alone on this?

EDIT: Talking mostly from a PvP perspective.

Hello im leveling my second pally and play as holy, and this talent is really amazing for keep the melee on distance, now i get good kills in random bg's.

Im playing as shockadin style, but is world of glory (trash words) style, right now...

Shibou - Quel'thalas US Server

[Tangra]

It had its uses, but it was also a painfully underwhelming talent. I won't miss it specifically, but I do think that the changes are sloppy and it's not fair for Ret to lose BoG and Instant Turn Evil just for a fear that you have to stop and cast.

That being said I think it's about time for Holy Prism to root targets and for Execution Sentence to be a 3 sec stun.

[Noujou]

I haven't seen many posts about this subject on this forum yet, and I guess it's because most people don't really care. I do. A lot actually. It's the one talent I really don't want to see gone, and now they're planning on removing it. I absolutely hate it. I don't want no stinkin' fear in return, I want my damn slow.

Am I alone on this?

EDIT: Talking mostly from a PvP perspective.

you are then what's called the vocal minority...because i can say having a fear from a arena standpoint is amazing considering fist of justice is better then burden of guilt anyways.

[Gandrake]

Ret has NO TOOLS baseline to catch up to his target.

bet you complained about not having a gap closer during wotlk