Poll: Did you find this Guide Useful?

  1. #1981
    Quote Originally Posted by Szarala View Post
    Yes.. controlling a pet (with wildly different abilities than your normal pets) you never had before and never will again makes you better at your class.
    I got my lock to 90 a few days ago and put a solid 6 hours into the quest today with an ilvl of 480 pvp gear before I got it down, I can honestly say I'm a hell of a lot more confident with warlock now than I was before. Being able to micro manage a pet in general while still performing is very important, especially at high level play.

    Honestly, i was really surprised by this fight, everyone was telling me about how hard it was and I thought that it couldn't be that bad, boy was I wrong. I'm SO glad that Blizzard FINALLY put some solo content into the game that's challenging, if you're not in a bg/arena/raid then there is literally nothing to challenge you. I look forward to more class quests in the future I also hope that this quest gets buffed accordingly every tier, otherwise it's just going to be another MoP legendary that nobody gives a shit about.

  2. #1982
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    I got my lock to 90 a few days ago and put a solid 6 hours into the quest today with an ilvl of 480 pvp gear before I got it down, I can honestly say I'm a hell of a lot more confident with warlock now than I was before. Being able to micro manage a pet in general while still performing is very important, especially at high level play.

    Honestly, i was really surprised by this fight, everyone was telling me about how hard it was and I thought that it couldn't be that bad, boy was I wrong. I'm SO glad that Blizzard FINALLY put some solo content into the game that's challenging, if you're not in a bg/arena/raid then there is literally nothing to challenge you. I look forward to more class quests in the future I also hope that this quest gets buffed accordingly every tier, otherwise it's just going to be another MoP legendary that nobody gives a shit about.
    I couldnt agree more. I went in completely unprepared and tried for two hours one day and my friend said I wasn't geared enough... Was roughly 490 and I said no I can do it. I thought it was going to be easier than it was. I had only two weeks of experience on my warlock at max level up until I completed it. I wasl determined enough to go another two hours two days later and get it done. I used two guides and mixed the strategy to make it work for me. Sure enough when I downed him I was ecstatic. I don't think anything I've done in wow felt as rewarding as when I got my green fire. Mostly because I know nobody else could help me get it but myself. I hope it scales with tiers and expansions as this isn't a solo quest that should be able to able to be done with ease as you get better gear.

  3. #1983
    Deleted
    Took me 3 hours, didnt know that was "good" compared to people whom have been stuck on him for weeks/days :O
    Anyway, does green fire lagg more than "old" boring red fire?

  4. #1984
    Quote Originally Posted by Observare View Post
    Took me 3 hours, didnt know that was "good" compared to people whom have been stuck on him for weeks/days :O
    Anyway, does green fire lagg more than "old" boring red fire?
    Not that I know of. I never really looked at it. Though it would stand to reason that the green fire uses a higher pixel count being more recently created. I always tended to believe it was just a recolor though.

  5. #1985
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Szarala View Post
    I just explained why this is not true.
    oh please stop it already. most of the people here DO think its well designed, you disagree, well... i guess it makes you still the minority.

    besides: you did say by yourself that: "you cant do so much things at once". i really do feel sorry that you cant, but stop already blaming adam and eva for your failure. keep a little dignity man.

  6. #1986
    I guess it was futile to try it with an ilevel of 463 :P (I did reach the final boss though), I'll get back to it in a week or two.

  7. #1987
    Quote Originally Posted by schuelertomas View Post
    oh please stop it already. most of the people here DO think its well designed, you disagree, well... i guess it makes you still the minority.

    besides: you did say by yourself that: "you cant do so much things at once". i really do feel sorry that you cant, but stop already blaming adam and eva for your failure. keep a little dignity man.
    Yes, I have a differing opinion on what constitutes good design and gave specific reasons for my viewpoint as a counter to the blanket "nuh uh, it's awesome!" statements.

    My stance may be a minority -here-, but that doesn't make it any less valid, nor is it indicative of the playerbase as a whole.

  8. #1988
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Szarala View Post
    Yes, I have a differing opinion on what constitutes good design and gave specific reasons for my viewpoint as a counter to the blanket "nuh uh, it's awesome!" statements.

    My stance may be a minority -here-, but that doesn't make it any less valid, nor is it indicative of the playerbase as a whole.
    and a ton of people had very good and extrem specific reasons why they liked it (last one is just few posts above yours by AjayxD. instead you go on and on. indeed you are the one braging around and writing as much as you can:

    nuh uh, its stupid!

    a lot of people tried to help you, i feel sorry for there time and efford wasted on you. just keep crying, maybe blizz will fix it and change it to easymode like 97 % of the game.

  9. #1989
    If the encounter was in the Brawlers Guild, exactly like it is now with the exception that there's a doohickey on the ground allowing you to enslave the Pit Lord (so that any class could do it), I'd be willing to bet that far fewer people (proportionately) would be gushing about how great a fight it is.

    My complaints are primarily that the type of challenge is inappropriate to the quest (this probably -would- be great for something like Brawler's Guild, but not as a solo class quest) and that it does a poor job of playing to warlock-specific strengths and abilities. The reason I stress the latter so much is because it's the most stated reason people say they like it and it's what I disagree with the strongest.

  10. #1990
    Quote Originally Posted by Szarala View Post
    ...it does a poor job of playing to warlock-specific strengths and abilities.
    How do you figure that exactly? Which other fight in the entire game uses more "Warlock-specific strengths and abilities" than this one? I can think of ZERO. For this fight, in addition to the same old dps rotation that any other npc boss might get, I also used: Enslave Demon, Fear, Shadowfury, Banish, Demonic Teleport, Demonic Gateway, Singe Magic, plus I manually used each of my pet's abilities, as well as fairly frequent pet-move commands, and add that along with just about every other spell in my toolkit. Sounds pretty Warlock-specific to me. :P

    I will burn your soul.

  11. #1991
    Quote Originally Posted by Supernex View Post
    How do you figure that exactly? Which other fight in the entire game uses more "Warlock-specific strengths and abilities" than this one? I can think of ZERO. For this fight, in addition to the same old dps rotation that any other npc boss might get, I also used: Enslave Demon, Fear, Shadowfury, Banish, Demonic Teleport, Demonic Gateway, Singe Magic, plus I manually used each of my pet's abilities, as well as fairly frequent pet-move commands, and add that along with just about every other spell in my toolkit. Sounds pretty Warlock-specific to me. :P
    Take the Pit Lord out of the equation: how many other classes could do this fight as well if not better? I get what they were trying to do, I just think they could've done a much better job of it. I especially take issue with the Pit Lord since it's management is pretty much the whole damn fight, and it is completely unlike any of our existing pets. It is this reason that I have to ask why people consider something that wasn't in our kit before and won't be again as being a hallmark of the class.

  12. #1992
    Quote Originally Posted by Szarala View Post
    Take the Pit Lord out of the equation: how many other classes could do this fight as well if not better? I get what they were trying to do, I just think they could've done a much better job of it. I especially take issue with the Pit Lord since it's management is pretty much the whole damn fight, and it is completely unlike any of our existing pets. It is this reason that I have to ask why people consider something that wasn't in our kit before and won't be again as being a hallmark of the class.
    Why take the pit lord out, it's a big part of the fight? What difference does it make how well other classes could do the warlock green fire boss without the pit lord?? Reaching much??

    Another thing, the pit lord isn't so different from our current pets, as it can tank like the Voidwalker/Voidlord, dispel and heal like the imp, and charge like the fel guard. And, just like any other pet, it needs to be managed, which is a fairly common (and useful) skill that Warlocks must use.

    The more you front these as your primary objections, the less I feel sorry for you and the more I start thinking about looking for one of those "don't feed the troll" pics...

    I will burn your soul.

  13. #1993
    Quote Originally Posted by Szarala View Post
    I just explained why this is not true.
    It's all a matter of opinion.

    I'd say this quest harkens back to the hunter rhok'delar quest which is absolutely awesome. I'm terrible at this quest and haven't gotten the last guy past 75% after about 12 attempts but I take long LONG breaks in between to settle down and get excited for it over again. I know I'll get it eventually and if I don't then that's fine too and I'll look in wonder at all the warlocks running around with green fire.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-6700 @2.8GHz | Nvidia GTX 960M | 16GB DDR4-2400MHz | 1 TB Toshiba SSD| Dell XPS 15

  14. #1994
    Quote Originally Posted by Supernex View Post
    Why take the pit lord out, it's a big part of the fight? What difference does it make how well other classes could do the warlock green fire boss without the pit lord?? Reaching much??
    If the primary thing making the encounter "warlock specific" is Enslave Demon (a spell it seems they forgot even existed for 3 expansions), then that's a pretty tenuous way of doing so.. THAT is my point.

    Another thing, the pit lord isn't so different from our current pets, as it can tank like the Voidwalker/Voidlord, dispel and heal like the imp, and charge like the fel guard. And, just like any other pet, it needs to be managed, which is a fairly common (and useful) skill that Warlocks must use.
    There is nothing remotely similar to Fel Flame Breath in any standard demon's arsenal. Comparing it to Singe Magic because they both dispel is like comparing a grape to a steamroller because they're both things. The Pit Lord does not "tank like the Voidwalker", since it's relying -completely- on the warlock themselves for threat management. Charge (Pit Lord) is closer in function to Axe Toss than it is to Pursuit (though it still suffers the drawbacks of being a charge-type mechanic) and I suppose the differences between Demonic Siphon and Cauterize Master are minimal enough to overlook. Overall point stands.

    As for pet management in general itself (and its importance to the class), well, that's another debate entirely. I take GoSac for everyday use specifically -because- I hate pet management (haaaaaaaate it), numbers be damned.

  15. #1995
    My lock is my 4th or 5th lv90 alt but I got him to about 30% on my best attempt. Frankly, its not an easy fight and after spending about 6-8hrs of trial and error I feel I put in enough tries and Im over it. I just want them to nerf it already or add stacking determination buffs per wipe so I can just have green fire on my lock. The visual is awesome and I dont have the free time or patience to keep throwing in attempts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Supernex View Post
    Why take the pit lord out, it's a big part of the fight? What difference does it make how well other classes could do the warlock green fire boss without the pit lord?? Reaching much??

    Another thing, the pit lord isn't so different from our current pets, as it can tank like the Voidwalker/Voidlord, dispel and heal like the imp, and charge like the fel guard. And, just like any other pet, it needs to be managed, which is a fairly common (and useful) skill that Warlocks must use.

    The more you front these as your primary objections, the less I feel sorry for you and the more I start thinking about looking for one of those "don't feed the troll" pics...
    I agree with this. I like the pitlord being in this fight. Its a pain in the ass to have re-enslave every minute or so but like Supernex said, the pitlord is basically a bunch of our demon pets rolled into one. I think if you only had to enslave him only once when he first spawns then this would be a little easier, only cus once enslave expires things can go bad pretty quickly.
    "If the people who are trying to destroy this world aren't taking a day off, then why should I?"

    -Bob Marley

  16. #1996
    Quote Originally Posted by MagicBanana View Post
    add stacking determination buffs per wipe
    That's not a bad idea, actually. They could even give the anvil an option to clear the buff for those that don't want it.

  17. #1997
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Szarala View Post
    That's not a bad idea, actually. They could even give the anvil an option to clear the buff for those that don't want it.
    no. wow is on autopilot so heavy its not even funny. you can get almost what you whant whenever you want. this is one of the last pieces in game where you actually HAVE to have some skill (aka managing more then 3 things at a time ;-))

    so pleaaaaaase. pretttyyyyyy pleaaase: take all the rest of the 99% of the game, enjoy easy mode, enjoy having handed everything to you like a little baby but leave this one for people who love to have an challange.

    your bad, and frankly... when i think about the time you spend crying about... you could have easyily farmed better gear for the fight in that time.

    so:

    less crying, more fighting.

    p.s.: and NO, your NOT getting green fire for free.

  18. #1998
    Quote Originally Posted by schuelertomas View Post
    no. wow is on autopilot so heavy its not even funny. you can get almost what you whant whenever you want. this is one of the last pieces in game where you actually HAVE to have some skill (aka managing more then 3 things at a time ;-))

    so pleaaaaaase. pretttyyyyyy pleaaase: take all the rest of the 99% of the game, enjoy easy mode, enjoy having handed everything to you like a little baby but leave this one for people who love to have an challange.

    your bad, and frankly... when i think about the time you spend crying about... you could have easyily farmed better gear for the fight in that time.

    so:

    less crying, more fighting.

    p.s.: and NO, your NOT getting green fire for free.
    How exactly would a removable determination buff affect the challenge for awesome, All Gold, Rank 10, 13/13 Betters such as yourself?
    Last edited by Szarala; 2013-07-08 at 07:45 PM.

  19. #1999
    Quote Originally Posted by Szarala View Post
    How exactly would a removable determination buff affect the challenge for awesome, All Gold, Rank 10, 13/13 Betters such as yourself?
    I think the main argument here is that Green Fire is not something that you "need" in order to progress your character further. Blizzard make character development and growth more accessible for more casual, less talented players, which makes sense, but they do also need some content that is designed to be challenging with challenging rewards. There are few people that bothered to disable the ICC zone buff after it went active, because what's the point? There's wanting something to be challenging, and deliberately doing something the hard way, for the same reward. Sadly if you're given everything you want without having to put in any effort, you'll be less invested.

    The fight is very killable in current LFR gear, and if you just spend some time optimising your UI and keybindings, I'm pretty sure anyone can complete the encounter. Simply binding your Pit Lord's abilities and movement tools to easily reachable keys makes all the difference in the world.

  20. #2000
    Quote Originally Posted by Szarala View Post
    and that it does a poor job of playing to warlock-specific strengths and abilities.
    I actually does think the encounter speaks specifically to the Warlock class and the Warlock playerbase ... I've never known a time when locks weren't regarded as one of, if not the, most complicated dps classes to play well. This encounter is an extreme version of that trope, but I think it's a reward for those of us who enjoy the intricacies Warlocks are known for -- particularly micromanagement of many abilities, and simply having to be more aware of what's going on than most others.

    In SoO LFR / valor gear, the encounter will be significantly easier as gear does provide a lot of breathing room on the mechanics (although, to be fair, some of that will be offset by the nerfs to our defensive capabilities -- but typically what people cite as their major problems are dealing with the felpups and, to a lesser extent, the imps. The faster they die, the less of a problem they'll be). In next expansion greens / dungeon blues, the encounter will likely be trivial.

    Just to add in to what I'm saying -- I'm not at all a raider who is going to clear Ra-Den while he's still current tier, but I don't have a problem with his existence. I think some somewhat-exclusive content is good for the game, as long as it's not overboard. Kanrethad is an example of a boss whose reward will always be desirable, whereas Ra-Den will not be desirable after the Cutting Edge achieve is no longer rewarded from him. This means that for the entire expansion, Kanrethad is an at-level challenge, with progressive nerfs in the form of easier-to-obtain higher-level gear.

    Kanrethad proved a harder challenge for me than anything else I've done in the game, and even though I needed more gear and more time than many, it felt damn good being able to do it very early into 5.2 -- my gear wasn't above 502 average. Now, for some, that would be a laughably high ilvl needed to do it, but for others more gear would be needed.

    But even in SoO LFR / valor gear it won't be faceroll, as others have described it even in sub-500 gear. Great for them -- they're better at Warlocking than I am. But for me the greatest prestige was in making incremental improvements in how I approached the encounter -- reading up on other people's attempts, synthesizing their advice with my own experience, and finding what I needed to do to get myself through it, and making it happen. Even if I needed 522 gear, or 530 gear, it doesn't change that I had to simply play better each attempt, pay more attention each attempt, and make fewer mistakes each attempt.

    For me this quest is a lot about what Warlocks are, to me: you see what you want, and you take it, you make it happen -- by any means necessary. You might have a hard road ahead of you but you have a deep bag of tricks. Your cunning and your willpower take you where you want to go. Who cares how hard or how easy anyone else's path is -- this is your path, this is your story. Take control of it.
    I am the one who knocks ... because I need your permission to enter.

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