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  1. #221
    Immortal roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    I personally loath LFR and how if I want to raid, and need to catch up I gotta do it.. though I suppose it's better that having to join a lower guild, then ditch them when im geared.

    I honestly wish they came up with Flex raiding before LFR. because it looks like a better system.. something easy enough for a Pug group to do but challenging enough to require teamwork (At least I hope so)
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  2. #222
    I am Murloc! Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    You are quibbling with the fine detail because you know my major points are correct.
    FYI it wasn't raiders who bitched about the leveling process, and no I didn't ignore your "major points" I said they were WRONG.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Vanilla wasn't it's boom period, BC was and it didn't take long to get to level cap, and then there was WOTLK with no LFR as well and that expansion was WAY easy to level, so again, still less to do back then and had high subscriptions.
    We already discussed that you can't relate complex things like sub gains and losses to single aspects of the game, and most certainly not things like LFR. I see you simply chose to ignore it all. You can't be that naive. Or maybe you can ...

    You're one of those hopeless people who just stick their head in the dirt and go LALALALALA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU, I REFUSE TO FACE LIFE AND STICK TO MY NONSENSE NO MATTER HOW DETACHED FROM REALITY IT IS
    Last edited by Pull My Finger; 2013-07-10 at 10:04 AM.

  4. #224
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    FYI it wasn't raiders who bitched about the leveling process, and no I didn't ignore your "major points" I said they were WRONG.
    No, you didn't address them at all and you still haven't, which I took then and am taking as tacit admission you can't.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    I personally loath LFR and how if I want to raid, and need to catch up I gotta do it.. though I suppose it's better that having to join a lower guild, then ditch them when im geared.

    I honestly wish they came up with Flex raiding before LFR. because it looks like a better system.. something easy enough for a Pug group to do but challenging enough to require teamwork (At least I hope so)
    There did indeed need to be some other catch up mechanics. Flex/LFR along with scenarios giving highish level loot along with dailies should in theory provide some good alternatives to catching up to the end game content IMO.

  6. #226
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    Good post OP - LFR was created for people like you, and it seems to work as intended from that prespective.

    LFR was not designed to replace normal raids for people who prefer that playstyle. Instead, it was intended to do exactly what you described.
    ???

    Methinks u have misread the OP.

    He is saying that he just wants to see the content. In the old days he would raid normals until he had seen everything and nowadays he does LFR to see everything. In the old days he would play longer than now.

    thats pretty much his entire point... that hes not doing normals anymore!

    Therefore his entire point is that LFR is replacing normals! lol

  7. #227
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by BloodGutter View Post
    Different strokes for different folks. If I wasn't raiding normals/heroics with my guild I would quit the game.

    No one in their right mind actually FINDS JOY in wiping for hours on end, but the end result of finally downing a boss after all the hard work and progression paying off is PRICELESS. Something LFR will never, ever be able to provide you.

    Plus you know, the superior gear and all. Yes LFR shares the same model but at the end of the day, heroic gear is the best.
    Yes..but as people get older and get a job and maybe a wife and shit they got less time to sit behind their pcs for 20 hours a week. They got LFR to still SEE the game, really so if i haven't completed God of war on hardest difficulty then i haven't experieced god of war? bullshit logic.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by lavaalamp View Post
    gathering gold for materials for raiding is very simple. i can play the game "casually" and earn a full 10man of raiding flasks/feasts/Enchants...you act like this game is HUGE time sink. it's not at all. i raid twice a week heroic modes and all i have to play is 2-4 hours to prepare for each raid and im fine....you sir aren't even trying, or giving any initiative to raid/play the game. please just quit the game before you encourage the devs to destroy the game. you are the poison.
    So, devs are little kids who need to be encouraged?
    Try turning story other way - tell devs to discourage us to play LFR. Somehow I have a feeling they wont do it...

    Also, you want us to quit the game? No dev in their right mind would develop a game with same content for lets say 5-10k players who would stay

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    ???

    Methinks u have misread the OP.

    He is saying that he just wants to see the content. In the old days he would raid normals until he had seen everything and nowadays he does LFR to see everything. In the old days he would play longer than now.

    thats pretty much his entire point... that hes not doing normals anymore!

    Therefore his entire point is that LFR is replacing normals! lol
    To be more precise, LFR replaced normals for me, I dont speak for others.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    ???

    Methinks u have misread the OP.

    He is saying that he just wants to see the content. In the old days he would raid normals until he had seen everything and nowadays he does LFR to see everything. In the old days he would play longer than now.

    thats pretty much his entire point... that hes not doing normals anymore!

    Therefore his entire point is that LFR is replacing normals! lol
    His entire post was that prior to LFR he had to raid the old fashioned way and that LFR is working for him. It has replaced his need for normal raiding and he enjoys that. LFR does not replace normals for people who want to step into harder raiding or guild raiding. Flex may help ease the burden somewhat and get more people into higher difficulties.

  10. #230
    i like that the game now has something for everyone. no matter what you'd like to do in this game, you're set. i think that's a great business model for keeping customers happy. provide content so all of your customers can be happy.

  11. #231
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    His entire post was that prior to LFR he had to raid the old fashioned way and that LFR is working for him. It has replaced his need for normal raiding and he enjoys that. LFR does not replace normals for people who want to step into harder raiding or guild raiding. Flex may help ease the burden somewhat and get more people into higher difficulties.
    So ur backing me up thanks...

    The point is that without LFR people raided normals, and with LFR alot of people dont raid normals anymore.

    Ur saying the same thing as me! lol

    The only question is whether this is a positive move 'forward' or is it a move 'backwards'.

    From a raiding point of view its a move backwards and from a casual/time commitment point of view its a step forward.

  12. #232
    Subs didn't rocket down when you put in lfr, they started to go down when raids were done that a large amount of people couldn't do on normal that had been normal mode raiders. The upper end of the raiding community got taken care of this expansion, the lower end did as well, those in the middle tho got destroyed.

    LFR is not and has not been the problem. It's the poor tuning of normal that is the problem.

  13. #233
    The point is that without LFR people raided normals,
    Without LFR, people didn't raid at all. Please keep that in mind.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    So ur backing me up thanks...

    The point is that without LFR people raided normals, and with LFR alot of people dont raid normals anymore.

    Ur saying the same thing as me! lol

    The only question is whether this is a positive move 'forward' or is it a move 'backwards'.

    From a raiding point of view its a move backwards and from a casual/time commitment point of view its a step forward.
    No I am not. You are saying LFR replaces normals full stop that isnt the case. LFR replaces raiding for _some_ people who no longer can do focused raiding with a set time/date. Without LFR a lot of people did not raid. Some people would not have come back for mists if LFR was not out.

    Normals being tuned to difficult for most people FORCED people into LFR. That is why Flex mode has come out as there was no happy medium. LFR was a reaction to what happened to beer league raiding that was destroyed in Cata. People were struggling to do normals/heroics in Cata and thats why it was constantly nerfed. In MOP LFR reduced the need to nerf normal/heroic Flex mode will go that step further by bringing beer league back so Normal and Heroic do not need nerfs and participation in NONE LFR raids should increase.

    LFR is not the cause of normal mode raids dropping in numbers that was done by Normal being buffed in Cata.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert3620 View Post
    Subs didn't rocket down when you put in lfr, they started to go down when raids were done that a large amount of people couldn't do on normal that had been normal mode raiders. The upper end of the raiding community got taken care of this expansion, the lower end did as well, those in the middle tho got destroyed.

    LFR is not and has not been the problem. It's the poor tuning of normal that is the problem.
    This guy sums it up as well

  15. #235
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrantWave View Post
    Without LFR, people didn't raid at all. Please keep that in mind.
    Even tho the evidence shows the oposite?

    This thread is a prime example... the most common admission is from players that raided Normals previously who now do LFR instead.

    Show me the posts from guys who never ever raided whatsoever in the past and now raid LFR.... thats right its a clear minority.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Even tho the evidence shows the oposite?

    This thread is a prime example... the most common admission is from players that raided Normals previously who now do LFR instead.

    Show me the posts from guys who never ever raided whatsoever in the past and now raid LFR.... thats right its a clear minority.
    Most people I raided with just quit because normal were tuned so terrible. They didn't go to lfr, they just quit the game. I am sure lfr has some former normal mode raiders in it but I would guess for the most part it's people that were not raiding that much before.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac2 View Post
    Started in TBC, I have raided all up to Black Temple. Never made to Sunwell, did it in Wotlk.
    Killed Ilidan and took break until Wotlk. Cleared Wotlk on normal modes and I was happy.
    Heroic modes? Never bothered, seen the content already.

    Cata and LFR came to the table - golden era of casual play begun. Convenience above all and everything. Best thing that happened to my gameplay in wow. I could raid whenever I wanted and leave whenever I wanted.
    Now Im asking myself how could I ever play in guild with schedule raid times, I was actually wasting my time back then, raiding 16 hours a week in tbc. Just to experience and kill last boss.

    Now I invest much less time and get the same goal. And still subbed. Its all about TIME, finally I can play the game less and get same goals.

    Thanks to Blizzard for LFD/LFR.
    I'm glad you're having fun but this is what has ruined raiding and its exclusivity. Don't you remember running around Isle of Quel'danas doing your dailies and seeing a shaman in his/her full skyshatter and just knowing "damn, that guy is good" and it being unique and rare. Or even back in Vanilla, seeing a Pally in Judgement sitting in Ironforge, that was badass. Now every reject and his friend runs around in the tier gear and legendary cloaks. It's insulting.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Even tho the evidence shows the oposite?

    This thread is a prime example... the most common admission is from players that raided Normals previously who now do LFR instead.

    Show me the posts from guys who never ever raided whatsoever in the past and now raid LFR.... thats right its a clear minority.
    Less than 5% of people even set foot in Sunwell off the top of my head. Blizzard themselves have stated that it was an absolute tiny minority of players who raided before LFR.

    Show me this "evidence" that proves the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaneosak View Post
    I'm glad you're having fun but this is what has ruined raiding and its exclusivity. Don't you remember running around Isle of Quel'danas doing your dailies and seeing a shaman in his/her full skyshatter and just knowing "damn, that guy is good" and it being unique and rare. Or even back in Vanilla, seeing a Pally in Judgement sitting in Ironforge, that was badass. Now every reject and his friend runs around in the tier gear and legendary cloaks. It's insulting.
    I can honestly say that, no, not once have I ever thought that.

  19. #239
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    No I am not. You are saying LFR replaces normals full stop that isnt the case. LFR replaces raiding for _some_ people who no longer can do focused raiding with a set time/date. Without LFR a lot of people did not raid. Some people would not have come back for mists if LFR was not out.

    Normals being tuned to difficult for most people FORCED people into LFR. That is why Flex mode has come out as there was no happy medium. LFR was a reaction to what happened to beer league raiding that was destroyed in Cata. People were struggling to do normals/heroics in Cata and thats why it was constantly nerfed. In MOP LFR reduced the need to nerf normal/heroic Flex mode will go that step further by bringing beer league back so Normal and Heroic do not need nerfs and participation in NONE LFR raids should increase.

    LFR is not the cause of normal mode raids dropping in numbers that was done by Normal being buffed in Cata.
    Methinks u need to re-assess your position... LFR was around in Cata.

    This makes your point totally mute.

    Also, most would argue that LFR was the main cause of destroying 'beer league' raiding (by this i guess u mean pugs). Pugging was alive and well thoughout Wrath. It plummetted when LFR was introduced in Cata, nothing to do with raiding difficulty. LFR took away the need to do pugs so its not surprising pugging took a dive in Cata.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TyrantWave View Post
    Less than 5% of people even set foot in Sunwell off the top of my head. Blizzard themselves have stated that it was an absolute tiny minority of players who raided before LFR.

    Show me this "evidence" that proves the opposite.



    I can honestly say that, no, not once have I ever thought that.
    WTF has Sunwell got to do with anything im saying?

    I AM NOT AN LFR HATER FFS!!!!!

    Im showing u facts and actually reading what people r posting... i suggest u do the same.

    Ive shown u evidence to back myself up... READ POSTS ON THIS THREAD.

    I challenged u to show me any poster who says they have never raided at all and now do LFR... i can show u loads of posters who admit they raided Normals in the past and now do LFR... the OP being one! lol

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    So ur backing me up thanks...

    The point is that without LFR people raided normals, and with LFR alot of people dont raid normals anymore.

    Ur saying the same thing as me! lol

    The only question is whether this is a positive move 'forward' or is it a move 'backwards'.

    From a raiding point of view its a move backwards and from a casual/time commitment point of view its a step forward.
    You wan't people in your raid group that only want to see the last boss and then split until the next expansion drops and they will take the easiest path to the end possible? Once the last boss goes down they are gone and they really don't care if you want to gear up some more in preparation for the next tier. They are always the least geared because gearing up requires effort. They scream and bitch if a purple ring is put at the end of a rep grind because its one more thing 'they have to do'. They want to see the content then they want to go play other games. They only have as much loyalty to the guild as they need to return to see the content and with LFR they have no need to even do that. And these are the players you want in your raid guild?

    You get 3 types of players in LFR;
    Those who don't have the time to schedule to raiding, you don't want them.
    Those that hate Raid Guilds due to bad experiences, they don't want you.
    Least resistance guys who only want to see the content, You want them? *scratches head.

    I would say you can have the lazy bums but don't screw over the other player types who can't or don't want to raid.

    If you think non-LFR content is good enough for everyone else then I suggest an experiment, for the whole entirety of the next expansion you put yourself in the shoes of someone who has no access to LFR and can't Raid. That means you get access to Heroic 5 mans and scenarios for an entire expansions life and that also means no heroic scenarios since they hand out welfare purples. If its good enough for the masses then you should find it quite enjoyable.

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