Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Alviarin]

1) AoE skill in single target rotation.

And why exactly is this a problem ?
This (and Shadowmourne) is what made us more than competitive in many fights back in Wrath / ICC, when the t10 bonus gave us spammable Divine Storms. Passive cleaves in a single target rotation was removed because Blizzard thought it was too favorable for us/warriors (and left it in place for DKs and many others, go figure).
It seems this tier will comprise many aoe fights, why are we complaining about free aoe ?

But I agree with the rest of the points you made.

[Revvo]

Plus doing 1% more damage to undead and guarenteed exo crit on undead.

[Deleted]

And why exactly is this a problem ?
This (and Shadowmourne) is what made us more than competitive in many fights back in Wrath / ICC, when the t10 bonus gave us spammable Divine Storms. Passive cleaves in a single target rotation was removed because Blizzard thought it was too favorable for us/warriors (and left it in place for DKs and many others, go figure).
It seems this tier will comprise many aoe fights, why are we complaining about free aoe ?

But I agree with the rest of the points you made.

no, the reason why Blizzard removed passive cleaves was because they wanted single target and AoE rotations to feel and play different. every class uses a different rotation depending on the presence of adds, and often even depending on the amount of adds, whether it's multidotting, swapping one skill for another, or even changing all abilities.

the main reason why AoE in single target is a nuisance is because it means you cannot use that skill when there's a target nearby you should not hit, like CCs or dangerous reactive skills. that's why they removed it from paladins and warriors while leaving it there for frost DKs, because they can still use icy touch. meanwhile, the unholy disease AoE on crit was removed. and I can't remember any others which were left intact.

[anaxie]

even if you get few last hits, Inq will still last a long time if it procs. it can divert some holy power from inq to TV.

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Let's sum up the issues with the 4P T16, shall we? I don't want to compare it to the current 4P, because that's just too OP.

1) AoE skill in single target rotation.
2) needs an extra button press.
3) no room in rotation for extra button presses, so takes the spot of a builder.
4) does not build HP, so costs 1/3 of a TV in opportunity cost.
5) only procs 4 times per minute with optimal conditions on average.

I think this are the biggest issues with the 4P. I am certain Anaxie can add some to it.

Only issue is single target damage for it is lacking. The rest doesn't matter period. Alot of the stuff like "aoe in single target" wasn't BAD it was just a way to push them away from this bonus and to a better one the last time around. That apparently isn't going to work again.

Hilariously enough the FIRST T15 bonus had DS to extra damage to the PRIMARY target. That actually what we would like NOW. More damage to the primary. Go figure.

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no, the reason why Blizzard removed passive cleaves was because they wanted single target and AoE rotations to feel and play different. every class uses a different rotation depending on the presence of adds, and often even depending on the amount of adds, whether it's multidotting, swapping one skill for another, or even changing all abilities.

the main reason why AoE in single target is a nuisance is because it means you cannot use that skill when there's a target nearby you should not hit, like CCs or dangerous reactive skills. that's why they removed it from paladins and warriors while leaving it there for frost DKs, because they can still use icy touch. meanwhile, the unholy disease AoE on crit was removed. and I can't remember any others which were left intact.

Lets be honest CC in raid's ins't used unless it's a stun or silence and if an ability is reactionary the target likely won't be near anything else that you are hitting or it will be the only one in which case you would hit nothing anyway. I can't think of any reason to CC in the last 3 expansions.

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I'm kinda hoping next expac we get overhauled again and the 1 second GCD baseline and a rework of DS entirely.

Not fond of starting from the ground up with slow motion rotation again. it's agonizing enough when I have to hit ES.

[Deleted]

Lets be honest CC in raid's ins't used unless it's a stun or silence and if an ability is reactionary the target likely won't be near anything else that you are hitting or it will be the only one in which case you would hit nothing anyway. I can't think of any reason to CC in the last 3 expansions.

Back in WotLK, when we used cons, one issue was with saurfang adds. and on Omnotron, if we still used DS on ST, we could have had incidental hits on the shielded.

as for CC, we had a very important CC boss back in HoF, Wind Lord Mel'jarak, and even one where AoE is encouraged.

[Revvo]

Back in WotLK, when we used cons, one issue was with saurfang adds. and on Omnotron, if we still used DS on ST, we could have had incidental hits on the shielded.

as for CC, we had a very important CC boss back in HoF, Wind Lord Mel'jarak, and even one where AoE is encouraged.

We didn't cc anything on wind lord progression.

[Deleted]

We didn't cc anything on wind lord progression.

You didn't. Others did. Not everyone is in one of the best guilds on the server.

[anaxie]

Back in WotLK, when we used cons, one issue was with saurfang adds. and on Omnotron, if we still used DS on ST, we could have had incidental hits on the shielded.

as for CC, we had a very important CC boss back in HoF, Wind Lord Mel'jarak, and even one where AoE is encouraged.

Saurfang adds? You wanted to aoe the fuck out of them what you talking about? Jar procs man, Jar procs.

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You didn't. Others did. Not everyone is in one of the best guilds on the server.

Why would adds be CCed ontop of boss? what the fuck?

[Deleted]

On Lei Shi 25hm maye !?

[anaxie]

If adds live long enough for one divine storm to cause issues you were doing it wrong.

That and not playing retarded is a fundamental part of any game.

[Deleted]

If adds live long enough for one divine storm to cause issues you were doing it wrong.

That and not playing retarded is a fundamental part of any game.

Look, there might not have been any recent examples of AoE skills in single target rotations causing issues, especially if you're going by DPS. but for example, back in ToC, faction champions took reduced AoE damage. and on DS, some adds weren't targeted by AoE by design. AoE in such cases would reduce our DPS by a substantial margin, especially when compared to classes like rogues, enhancement shamans and mages, who didn't have AoE skills in their single target rotation.

[anaxie]

Look, there might not have been any recent examples of AoE skills in single target rotations causing issues, especially if you're going by DPS. but for example, back in ToC, faction champions took reduced AoE damage. and on DS, some adds weren't targeted by AoE by design. AoE in such cases would reduce our DPS by a substantial margin, especially when compared to classes like rogues, enhancement shamans and mages, who didn't have AoE skills in their single target rotation.

Oh no faction champions. Better not hit divine storm cuz holy wrath is op

[Neldarie]

And why exactly is this a problem ?
This (and Shadowmourne) is what made us more than competitive in many fights back in Wrath / ICC, when the t10 bonus gave us spammable Divine Storms. Passive cleaves in a single target rotation was removed because Blizzard thought it was too favorable for us/warriors (and left it in place for DKs and many others, go figure).
It seems this tier will comprise many aoe fights, why are we complaining about free aoe ?

But I agree with the rest of the points you made.

Because that was the worst design Ret ever had (being carried by trinket/setbonus/shitomourne to be competetive was flat-out retarded). And any AE move when "forced" to be used in ur single target rotation is just plain stupid.

Look at fury warrior WW/RB cleave, now that is pretty much a perfect cleave model.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

What would be "bad" with bringing back consecration for ret? Adds a significant aoe/cleave bonus + it gives something to "hold up" while we button mash everything. Situational maybe but I miss it, most of all I just want HotR to drop it's target requirement... it's fucking annoying.

[Aceshigh]

What would be "bad" with bringing back consecration for ret? Adds a significant aoe/cleave bonus + it gives something to "hold up" while we button mash everything. Situational maybe but I miss it, most of all I just want HotR to drop it's target requirement... it's fucking annoying.

I actually get mad when I hit that button. Irrational? Possibly. HoTR is just fucking annoying haha

[Revvo]

I actually get mad when I hit that button. Irrational? Possibly. HoTR is just fucking annoying haha

That feel when that one add parries it.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

That feel when that one add parries it.

or it's behind you because there's 15 mobs and you targeted that one, makes it even more annoying if the "melee range" on the mob is tiny (hello Tortos bats).
Not to mention we have no abilities to break stealth with, well there's Light's Hammer if you spec it but that's a 1min cd and can be avoided easily...

[anaxie]

or it's behind you because there's 15 mobs and you targeted that one, makes it even more annoying if the "melee range" on the mob is tiny (hello Tortos bats).
Not to mention we have no abilities to break stealth with, well there's Light's Hammer if you spec it but that's a 1min cd and can be avoided easily...

Dat positioned add /bites lip

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Because that was the worst design Ret ever had (being carried by trinket/setbonus/shitomourne to be competetive was flat-out retarded). And any AE move when "forced" to be used in ur single target rotation is just plain stupid.

Look at fury warrior WW/RB cleave, now that is pretty much a perfect cleave model.

going on a trinket / set bonus trip

HOLY FUCK tier sets have gotten way better bonus's this was the shit we got as a 4 set not that long ago in T11.

(4) Set: Your Inquisition ability's duration is calculated as if you had one additional Holy Power.

You know the more I look at bonus's the more I notice how good our current PTR bonus is lol. It just happens to be after one of the Top 3 best set bonus's ever.

oddly among those 3 is the 40% on attack DS reset. I know it's not relevant but solo play should be quite interesting with DS heal glyph + DP when live hits.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Some changes on PTR regarding the CD reducing trinket(s), seems like blizzard decided that raid wide cds won't be reduced anymore (at least the case for warrior dps and pala dps)
Ret:
Guardian of Ancient Kings - personal dps increase.
Avenging Wrath - personal dps increase.
Divine protection - personal damage reduction cd.
Bubble - personal immunity cd.
Devotion Aura - raidwide magic damage reduce. - Removed
Hand of Protection - 1target physical immunity, 10sec.
Hand of Freedom - 1 target, removes snares from targets and makes them immune to snares and roots for 6 seconds. (25sec cd without trinket)

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I know it's not relevant but solo play should be quite interesting with DS heal glyph + DP when live hits.

That's pretty much what I've been doing on PTR by the wall :P

[anaxie]

Some changes on PTR regarding the CD reducing trinket(s), seems like blizzard decided that raid wide cds won't be reduced anymore (at least the case for warrior dps and pala dps)
Ret:
Guardian of Ancient Kings - personal dps increase.
Avenging Wrath - personal dps increase.
Divine protection - personal damage reduction cd.
Bubble - personal immunity cd.
Devotion Aura - raidwide magic damage reduce. - Removed
Hand of Protection - 1target physical immunity, 10sec.
Hand of Freedom - 1 target, removes snares from targets and makes them immune to snares and roots for 6 seconds. (25sec cd without trinket)

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That's pretty much what I've been doing on PTR by the wall :P

Well that got rid of some significant utility on the CDR trinket. Not that it matters. If crit trinket stays similar to the feather proc or better I see no reason not to use that and the passive stats one and opt for DP. Thats just me.

I ASSUME rogues lost smoke bomb on their version then no?

Any changes with the trinkets this build mechanic wise?