Outrage over "Don't be that girl" Posters in Edmonton.

[Deleted]

Good afternoon MMO-Champ, i came across this article accidentally after it being plastered over my FB feed - It's been causing quite a stir amongst certain people i know and they're wasting no time in vilifying it.

What are they parading around is probably going on in your head, well it seems a relatively unknown MRA group in Edmonton has started a *campaign* of posting a mock of the poster "Don't be that guy"

In short, the poster is pointing out - that men can stop rape ect, i've not been a big fan of the posters personally - but do realize they serve a very public purpose.

What the group did, was turn the tables - and design posters to remind women about false accusations and the like, something which is quite rare in western culture (Relatively at least) But some people fear it's gaining traction, like certain MRA's.

I'll post the article and the posters (I'll try and scale them down)

An example of "Don't be that guy" posters.



And then the MRA poster, that was put up in Edmonton.



Now, for the article in question -

EDMONTON – Posters spreading a message that Edmonton police have been trying to fight for years with their “Don’t be that guy” campaign is generating mixed reviews, as well as a conversation in our city about sexual assault.

The Mens Rights Edmonton association is taking responsibility for the campaign. One of its members, who did not want to identify himself, says this poster campaign was intended to counter the “Don’t be that guy” campaign that he says made “rape into a gendered issue.”

“We don’t blame victims for anything, we’re simply looking for an accurate discourse on the subject.”

The subject was thrust into the spotlight on Tuesday afternoon, when a Women’s Studies instructor at the University of Alberta posted the following tweet:

The tweet in question from the Instructor;

1 more example that #RapeCulture is flourishing in #YEG.Women report rape bc its a crime,not a revenge plot #rapemyth pic.twitter.com/ObAGHEh6lH

A response from a Dr. Kristopher Wells

As this poster shows, rape culture is alive and well in #yeg. A sad commentary & poor reflection on men everywhere pic.twitter.com/CZkLVCebEi

And some other Tweets,

Dr. Cristina Stasia @ActionFlickDoc
Hey rape apologists, how about "Don't be THAT guy. Don't rape." #YEG #UofA #YEGdt #YEGsexism #rapeculture #rapemyths pic.twitter.com/S1zo02zsNH

Don Iveson @doniveson
The msg in these posters is morally indefensible; it's condemnable and contemptible. @ActionFlickDoc: #rapemyths pic.twitter.com/yAzhi7oyjT #yeg

The rest of the article in question;
“I think there are real barriers for women who have been sexually assaulted to come forward, and I think things like this cause more barriers, more hassles for women. Because it requires real courage to come forward,” he told Global News.

Calgary Communities Against Sexual Abuse (CCASA) also responded to the campaign with a blog post, writing: ”This poster which has mimicked itself after the “Don’t Be That Guy” Campaign has crossed a line by using incorrect information to try to make a point that is absolutely false, inaccurate and 100% incorrect.”

“I think what their campaign is saying is that women lie about rape, about sexual assault to get back at a boyfriend,” said Karen Smith, executive director of the Sexual Assault Centre of Edmonton. She cited national statistics as evidence that false reports don’t actually happen as often as some people may think.

“One to two percent of sexual assaults reported to the police would be false. And that would be the same for any other crime that would be reported to the police.”

The same figure was also used by Acting Insp. Sean Armstrong of the Serious Crime Branch, which includes the Sexual Assault Section. Armstrong says that in the four and a half years he worked as a sexual assault detective, he came across only one false report.

“And I dealt with numerous files; many, many, many files. So they’re extremely rare.”

But the group’s message is seeing its fair share of support, as well.

The various sources; Including a thread that was made by me, adressing a poster made and posted on a campus - similar in the lieu of thinking as "Don't be that guy"

http://www.mensrightsedmonton.com/
http://globalnews.ca/news/706030/don...spark-outrage/
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...e-is-it-unfair

- - - Updated - - -

Now, my question to the posters here is fairly simple. (I didn't include it, in the main post due to the length)

Do you think, that this is fair in the response the MRA's have received? Widespread condemnation and various other... things.

My personal opinion, is that it was somewhat petty - done to antagonize those they perceived as against there movement... Obviously i recognize that false accusations happen, but the responses towards it have been extremely dismissive - some going as far as even denying the existence of false reports and the like.

Should these types of posters even be allowed?

[Deleted]

Dont see an issue with either poster tbh:

men shouldnt stick their bits in women without consent - agreed
women shouldnt falsely accuse men of non-consential sex - agreed

not sure what else there is to say - where's the controversy?

ps: you need to edit your first couple of paragraphs btw as some duplicate sentences have got mixed up in there

[Deleted]

Dont see an issue with either poster tbh:

men shouldnt stick their bits in women without consent - agreed
women shouldnt falsely accuse men of non-consential sex - agreed

not sure what else there is to say - where's the controversy?

ps: you need to edit your first couple of paragraphs btw as some duplicate sentences have got mixed up in there

Strange... I proofed it before i posted - but it must of slipped past me...

Thanks for the heads up!

[Speaknoevil]

It's fairly obvious that the latter posters are attempting to discredit legitimate rape accusations because of the victim's intoxication; perhaps implying that they *seemed* to consent, as if that were valid.

[Henako]

The first poster seems a bit sarcastic, but I don't see any problems with the second.

It's fairly obvious that the latter posters are attempting to discredit legitimate rape accusations because of the victim's intoxication; perhaps implying that they *seemed* to consent, as if that were valid.

I'm not sure where you see that. At least not from the second poster.

[Deleted]

Tough one:
As independent posters, both are valid and have a worthwile message ( 1 against non-consensual sex, 2 against false accusations )
However, using the second poster to ridicule the first one and thus ending up with no real message, except for a quick laugh at the first... is less acceptable

[Velaniz]

Certainly was immature and moronic, but I think all the "Zomg rape culture!" responses are a tad ridiculous too.

[Speaknoevil]

I'm not sure where you see that. At least not from the second poster.

It's a tactic; due to the rarity of the latter, and the frequency of the former, it makes it quite obvious what their ends are.

[MerinPally]

Both are as silly as each other. We all here the first one but the response posters are very intelligent. We're always told that "being drunk isn't an excuse" but then when it comes to sex suddenly it is.

It's not something you can draw a line under, it's not a black and white issue that can be decided with one set of rules. If a girl wakes up next to a guy with no memory of the night before then it's rape, if a guy wakes up next to a girl with no memory then it isn't seen that way ever/as quickly. It's always going to be a contentious issue.

Trying to smear one campaign with another though is unacceptable. If they did it more independently then great but I'm not sure they are. Oh well. There's worse problems in the world than an aggressive advertising campaign.

[Deleted]

It's fairly obvious that the latter posters are attempting to discredit legitimate rape accusations because of the victim's intoxication; perhaps implying that they *seemed* to consent, as if that were valid.

I agree, the response posters from the MRA's in question - make me cast doubts on there *aims* So to speak, it just seems a juvenile response aimed at discrediting the posters initially posted.

And they might make it even harder for those who have suffered, to come forward - in fear of aspirations on there *reliability* so to speak.

[MerinPally]

Certainly was immature and moronic, but I think all the "Zomg rape culture!" responses are a tad ridiculous too.

They come from Women's Studies people. Noone outside of America has any clue what Women's Studies really is and have even less idea why it's a degree. We don't have Men's Studies (or is that just engineering/computer science because the gender ratio is horrific?).

[Fiftyonred]

Dont see an issue with either poster tbh:

men shouldnt stick their bits in women without consent - agreed
women shouldnt falsely accuse men of non-consential sex - agreed

not sure what else there is to say - where's the controversy?

ps: you need to edit your first couple of paragraphs btw as some duplicate sentences have got mixed up in there

Honestly, don't be THAT guy, who always posts "not sure what else there is to say" in order to sound savvy, or stop an argument.

Rather say "Not sure what else I can say" if you cant engage in a conversation.

[Deleted]

"Rape culture" indeed. I fail to see how "don't get drunk to the point you black out and can't remember what happened" is a bad message.

[GKLeatherCraft]

It's a very dodgy issue really, I can see why they have made those posters, because as MerinPally says, if a girl wakes up after a bender next to a guy she doesn't know, and can't remember it's often suddenly rape, Yet it could be the same for the guy too, It's unfortunately something that's always going to be an issue, it's such a hard thing to prove, either way.

There are alot more people getting "raped" and a lot less having "one of those nights", A huge part of the issue IMO is the need to blame, noone likes to accept what they did these days, so someone must be to blame for it.

Ofcourse there is the very real issue that it does happen a lot, Men do prey on girls who have had too much to drink, But it doesn't mean that every drunk girl that wakes up after the night before was assaulted.

[Laize]

It's a tactic; due to the rarity of the latter, and the frequency of the former, it makes it quite obvious what their ends are.

Both are rare. One is simply less rare.

And it's ridiculously insulting to put up posters aimed at men telling us to behave.

Thanks, poster! If it weren't for you I'd have put the roofies in her drink and become a rapist!

The huge majority of men aren't going to rape anyone.

[GKLeatherCraft]

And they might make it even harder for those who have suffered, to come forward - in fear of aspirations on there *reliability* so to speak.

This is a very valid point too, the stupid women who feel the need to cry assault when they just had a drunken one night stand, make it so much harder for those who were actually assaulted to come forward, which isn't right, Which is another issue surrounding how hard it is to prove/disprove, And another reason why it's always good to have friends who don't drink to go out with

[chaotus]

While funny and unnecessarily sarcastic it does present a valid message as well. Just because rape is horrible and mentally depraved and brings up bile in the majority of humanity (men and women), does not mean we should swing so fucking far to the other side and just wholesale believe and act on any situation the second someone claims rape. I say claim not to diminish what has happened but to remember that by current logic people are innocent until proven guilty in most parts of the world. We can't just assume guilt. Nor can we assume innocence. A women claiming rape has as much responsibility to prove her case as someone proving burglary and assault. While emotionally the rape is more tragic that should not condone the concept we have arrived at where rape can be claimed and justice meted through political and private means before even a court case is heard.

As it stands now public opinion is so far to one side that when a female claims a male raped her we automatically assume he must prove he is innocent. That is simply not the case, they must prove he is guilty of that crime.

[Deleted]

This is a very valid point too, the stupid women who feel the need to cry assault when they just had a drunken one night stand, make it so much harder for those who were actually assaulted to come forward, which isn't right, Which is another issue surrounding how hard it is to prove/disprove, And another reason why it's always good to have friends who don't drink to go out with

The media doesn't help shit either. The whole guilty until proven innocent thing to occurs in the media can ruin peoples lives even if they were never convicted.

[Speaknoevil]

The huge majority of men aren't going to rape anyone.

How many times has someone tried to rape you?

What percentage of women do you think have been sexually assaulted?

[MasterHamster]

General rule:
If it uses the term "rape culture", don't argue with it. Not worth the trouble.