And the vote goes to......the players!! [spoiler]

[Meledelion]

who might or might not be

That's why. He also could've logged on to a verified GW2 reddit account but didn't, instead he decided to make a new account named: CJ on the day of that thread.

People are very sceptical about stuff like that since its' really easy to fake...

[Meledelion]

You've said things like this before, and I really don't see an issue with not having every encounter be essentially the same, or why you think that the "glass cannon community" is the only group of players that are playing "right" or "well".

I think I said multiple times back in 2012 that at some point encounters would have to be designed with mechanics in place that couldn't be dodge-rolled simply because otherwise every fight would end up feeling (or actually being) largely the same. That prediction seems to have been pretty solid. =D

Just flip it around. Make a dungeon which you can't complete unless everyone goes full zerker, would you be OK with that?

And I don't say that they are the only ones who play right or well. What I'm saying is that they use the tools that are given to them (dodging) to the fullest potential to maximise efficiency (they can rock full zerker => faster kill times => ...). If people are OK with taking 30min to kill mai-trinn that's fine and I don't have any problem with that.

I also don't find that Mai Trinn feels any different, she just blows up zerkers instead of people who can't dodge. That doesn't mean everything is different all of a sudden so if that was the reason why they decided to make her shadow-shot undodgeable they failed horribly. To me it even becomes extra boring since what this fight turns into is "tank damage and heal" which is far from entertaining. Go watch the solo engineer video it's quite obvious how retarded and dull the design is.

[Durzlla]

Just flip it around. Make a dungeon which you can't complete unless everyone goes full zerker, would you be OK with that?

And I don't say that they are the only ones who play right or well. What I'm saying is that they use the tools that are given to them (dodging) to the fullest potential to maximise efficiency (they can rock full zerker => faster kill times => ...). If people are OK with taking 30min to kill mai-trinn that's fine and I don't have any problem with that.

I also don't find that Mai Trinn feels any different, she just blows up zerkers instead of people who can't dodge. That doesn't mean everything is different all of a sudden so if that was the reason why they decided to make her shadow-shot undodgeable they failed horribly. To me it even becomes extra boring since what this fight turns into is "tank damage and heal" which is far from entertaining. Go watch the solo engineer video it's quite obvious how retarded and dull the design is.

She doesn't blow up zerkers, every zerker i've ran with just swapped out a utility, guardians would grab either that shield utility or their wall, or a shield (only one did this), every warrior zerker i saw had an Axe/Shield combo, mesmers brought feedback like usual etc, and would just reflect or block the skill since you just couldn't DODGE it.

Making a fight force you away from SMASH FACE GET DMG, isn't bad, making a fight force you to change your entire gear and trait/build set up is. Everyone has some way to avoid the shot, not to mention she aims at the furthest person because it does the most damage to that poor bastard, not to mention you can take the bullet for your friend (i know i've dodged behind my earth ele so he'd die instead of me).

[Meledelion]

Actually the fact that all zerkers you played with switched to those things proves that she does actually one-shot zerkers. As I said earlier, sure you can swap to defensive weapons but if you do that you're no longer a zerker.

I disagree. IMO skill should determine what you can and can't do and that skill is determined by dodging, it's the only thing that really "shows" the difference between a skilled player and a lesser skilled player. If there's two guys one using endure pain and the other doesn't and both of them stay alive but the endure pain guy had to use his skill, it's clear the other guy is better. Forcing that better guy to now bring EP eventhough he's perfectly capable of dodging the attack is simply retarded.

IMO you should never force someone into a certain build. Again, turn it around. What if you had to bring full zerker, what if you can't kill the end boss since if you don't deal 70k DPS you can't kill him. Simply because it's the exact opposite people don't care...

Basically think of old CoF p1, that shit got nerfed real fast.

[Deleted]

Seems obvious Kiel will be preferred here - waypoint costs would be preferred anyway, but especially this week they have 1) made everybody waypoint a lot in the new zone after missing jumps 2) handed out a load of free black lion chest stuff from the achievement chests, and I bet most players now have stacks of those boosters sitting in the bank already

[zito]

you're no longer a zerker.

If the stat set is still zerker then you are still a zerker. Which is where the term came from. Zerker X class refers to full berserker geared X class. So it doesn't matter if you switched to axe/shield from axe/whatever to gain a block you are still a zerker.

[Meledelion]

If the stat set is still zerker then you are still a zerker. Which is where the term came from. Zerker X class refers to full berserker geared X class. So it doesn't matter if you switched to axe/shield from axe/whatever to gain a block you are still a zerker.

You go join a CoF p1 full zerker run and walk around with endure pain and a shield...

[zito]

You go join a CoF p1 full zerker run and walk around with endure pain and a shield...

Which is why you have 2 weapon sets at any given time and I don't usually see zerker warriors switch to anything but GS unless they need defense all of a sudden and if they need endure pain they will use it doesn't change the fact they are still zerker warriors.

[Durzlla]

Actually the fact that all zerkers you played with switched to those things proves that she does actually one-shot zerkers. As I said earlier, sure you can swap to defensive weapons but if you do that you're no longer a zerker.

I disagree. IMO skill should determine what you can and can't do and that skill is determined by dodging, it's the only thing that really "shows" the difference between a skilled player and a lesser skilled player. If there's two guys one using endure pain and the other doesn't and both of them stay alive but the endure pain guy had to use his skill, it's clear the other guy is better. Forcing that better guy to now bring EP eventhough he's perfectly capable of dodging the attack is simply retarded.

IMO you should never force someone into a certain build. Again, turn it around. What if you had to bring full zerker, what if you can't kill the end boss since if you don't deal 70k DPS you can't kill him. Simply because it's the exact opposite people don't care...

Basically think of old CoF p1, that shit got nerfed real fast.

Well for starters the guy with EP may have been the bosses target #1 for some reason (this has happened to me and all my friends at some point or another) so that doesn't mean he's bad, there's more variables than you're giving.

And again, ONE WEAPON OR SKILL SWAP is NOT the same as changing up an entire build. You seem to think, for what ever reason, changing a utility or weapon means they're no longer a zerker which is plain bull shit. They're not going to design an encounter around everyone being in zerker because that'd literally screw every non zerker out, this fight did NOT screw zerkers it made them adapt slightly, my guildies did the entire instance with only zerkers and had no issue, they'd just either 1) ball up on her so her lightning bolt didn't do shit, or 2) the guy whose block/reflect was up would stand in the very back and just block(or better yet reflect the damage back) hit.

If the fight made it so everyone took lets say X unblockable damage every few seconds and was enough to kill any zerker, then yes, I'd be in agreement that the fight was designed to not bring zerkers, but seeing as how it had ONE skill that punished poor placement, there's no issue.

[Meledelion]

Which is why you have 2 weapon sets at any given time and I don't usually see zerker warriors switch to anything but GS unless they need defense all of a sudden and if they need endure pain they will use it doesn't change the fact they are still zerker warriors.

And on the other weaponset you have axe/mace. Zerkers don't run defensive weapons man, that's what I'm trying to tell ya.

Well for starters the guy with EP may have been the bosses target #1 for some reason (this has happened to me and all my friends at some point or another) so that doesn't mean he's bad, there's more variables than you're giving.

And again, ONE WEAPON OR SKILL SWAP is NOT the same as changing up an entire build. You seem to think, for what ever reason, changing a utility or weapon means they're no longer a zerker which is plain bull shit. They're not going to design an encounter around everyone being in zerker because that'd literally screw every non zerker out, this fight did NOT screw zerkers it made them adapt slightly, my guildies did the entire instance with only zerkers and had no issue, they'd just either 1) ball up on her so her lightning bolt didn't do shit, or 2) the guy whose block/reflect was up would stand in the very back and just block(or better yet reflect the damage back) hit.

If the fight made it so everyone took lets say X unblockable damage every few seconds and was enough to kill any zerker, then yes, I'd be in agreement that the fight was designed to not bring zerkers, but seeing as how it had ONE skill that punished poor placement, there's no issue.

So the guy went into the fight being 100% the same as everyone else, yet he knew the boss would target him and thus that he would need endure pain? You also don't need EP for any fight ever when you're good at dodging, we've been over that before.

You didn't need to be full zerker for CoF1 either just some DPS skills, yet that one got nerfed/altered.

I did exactly what you did. Rock full zerker and melee the shit out of her so she wouldn't shadow-shot. I never said I had issues with the encounter. I have issues with the reasoning behind the mechanics of the encounter.

[zito]

And on the other weaponset you have axe/mace. Zerkers don't run defensive weapons man, that's what I'm trying to tell ya.

They do when they need to counter a mechanic that one shots them, then go back to GS and carry on. You either sacrifice one off hand weapon for an extra block to live and continue to do your high zerker damage or die. Changing one skill doesn't mean they are not zerkers anymore. Zerker gear makes them zerkers.

[Durzlla]

The reasoning behind the mechanics is to PUNISH ANYONE OUT OF POSITION the fact you're wearing zerkers is meaningless, I've seen People in Knights, Soldiers, Clerics, Valkyries, Magis, and Carrion also been dropped in 1 shot by her, that's hardly a counter to zerkers, it's a counter to people who stand too far away.

[Meledelion]

They do when they need to counter a mechanic that one shots them, then go back to GS and carry on. You either sacrifice one off hand weapon for an extra block to live and continue to do your high zerker damage or die. Changing one skill doesn't mean they are not zerkers anymore. Zerker gear makes them zerkers.

So you'd consider someone using full zerker gear using mace/shield to qualify as a zerker toon? To me that's just a wannabe. Like the guy who gets a full body kit for his muscle car but has a v4 instead of v8...

You keep bringing up switching to a defensive set when it's needed, thing is that's not needed in any encounter apart from Mai Trinn, just dodging is fine. For all content currently in-game you can rely 100% on dodges and IMO that's the way it should be. If you're not yet at that level and you need to use EP that's fine but don't force that shit on people who don't. Making stuff undodgeable is bad design since it encourages people to not play to the full potential.

- - - Updated - - -

The reasoning behind the mechanics is to PUNISH ANYONE OUT OF POSITION the fact you're wearing zerkers is meaningless, I've seen People in Knights, Soldiers, Clerics, Valkyries, Magis, and Carrion also been dropped in 1 shot by her, that's hardly a counter to zerkers, it's a counter to people who stand too far away.

BS, When i was in my PVT gear (1.3k armor) her shadowshot did a lowsy 2k dmg. A full cleric engineer took 10k hits just the same, thing is he has 24k hp instead of 13...

[Durzlla]

How far were they? You need to remember that fucking shot does more damage the further you are, my lv 55 ele in 20 gear would get hit for 2k too when I was a stone throw away from her, but god forbid I was at 1500 range, then she would kill me 2 times over.

[Meledelion]

Max shortbow range so that's 900y.

I can't find anything on the more damage if further away, I checked the wiki and it doesn't mention it. I also checked some videos and a guy who was hitting mai with bomb kit was hit for 10k shots while he was in the circle too. So do you have a source for this?

I deleted my personal footage when Karizee only wanted the first boss clip so I can't check sadly enough

[Durzlla]

Max shortbow range so that's 900y.

I can't find anything on the more damage if further away, I checked the wiki and it doesn't mention it. I also checked some videos and a guy who was hitting mai with bomb kit was hit for 10k shots while he was in the circle too. So do you have a source for this?

I deleted my personal footage when Karizee only wanted the first boss clip so I can't check sadly enough

Seeing as how if she shot me when I was close I'd live and if I were far away I'd get hit for double my healthbar, yeah, I think range has a lot to do with it, that and our zerker warrior ( even when he didn't have a shield) would shrug off the shot no issues, yet our knights rifle warrior would be thrown flat on his ass everytime, I'm willing to bet it has to do with range.

And the wiki lacks A LOT of details, ESPECIALLY on NPC skills, so the wiki not having it says nothing.

[Meledelion]

I agree on wiki but the engineer solo is at the starting area when the final phase hits and mai is in her starting spot when she uses SS and he gets 3k dmg.

Regarding rifle war it can be lots of things. He can be out of range of protection, the boss could've had weakness. The shot can be absorbed by someone else (like you do with the ele), he could be in a healing field, have regen,... There's lots of possibilities.

I bring it up because I solo'd it using the awesome invinci bear tank + max sb range combo and just shrugged it off.

[Durzlla]

I agree on wiki but the engineer solo is at the starting area when the final phase hits and mai is in her starting spot when she uses SS and he gets 3k dmg.

Regarding rifle war it can be lots of things. He can be out of range of protection, the boss could've had weakness. The shot can be absorbed by someone else (like you do with the ele), he could be in a healing field, have regen,... There's lots of possibilities.

I bring it up because I solo'd it using the awesome invinci bear tank + max sb range combo and just shrugged it off.

Yeah, she REALLY hates bears for some reason, still trying to figure that out lol, and does the engi have protection? And he may just be an all around tanker person than our ranger in PVT ( I know engies can be REALLY tanky) cause I know our ranger was a more offensive build.

[Meledelion]

No prot, just heals all the way through.

My ranger had 1.3k ish armor (just armor, weapons/jewels were zerker) and had no problem at all. I think he's(engi) running clerics due to how much he heals but don't pin me on that one.

[Durzlla]

No prot, just heals all the way through.

My ranger had 1.3k ish armor (just armor, weapons/jewels were zerker) and had no problem at all. I think he's(engi) running clerics due to how much he heals but don't pin me on that one.

I'm not saying you can't be ranged during the fight, just saying the mechanics design was to punish people from being too far away, I know my ele was always at some sort of distance (granted not much once I realized being far away meant I died) and ended up ok, same with on my ranger.