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  1. #121
    I know maybe 30+ people who have played wow and quit, an none of them said it was because things were too easy or accessible, but rather that they didn't want to spend the required time to get some progress or simply that the game didn't thrill them anymore. People aren't complaning in-game either, only on the forums. Not that a minority's voice doesn't matter, but when they go against the game design that keeps 90% of the people playing the responsible thing is to give the snowflakes a treat like a title or mount, not change the whole game. I get that it's fun to show off those special epics in major cities and to steamroll the noobs in battlegrounds with your superior, hard-earned gear, but those days are gone. (Thankfully..)
    Mother pus bucket!

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    By your logic that means that no problem is worthy of being fixed unless the majority of players in Wow post omn the forums... do u really expect 8 million people to post on the forums?

    The issue of dead and dying realm populations has been a massive issue... but the amount of players effected is small. I mean, they are on DEAD realms ffs. There arent enough of them to even post... so that means there is no problem right? lol

    Or i could argue that LFR has generated more forum pages than any other issue.. so that means that every single issue ever posted must by conclusion have even less forum posts about them. And that means that those issues are even more untrue right?

    Dude your logic sucks.
    Blizzard can use a ton of other metrics and statistics to figure out what is wrong and what is right in game. Forums are far more useful for PR and the occasional brilliant idea then they are for actually creating a game around.

    Please don't take offense to this, as I intend no offense, but have you ever taken a statistics course? 1% of 8 million would be an amazingly huge sample in which to draw data from. Very few studies even come close to utilizing that many people. Now, the real debate is whether or not that sample is truly representative of the population. Do forum posters have different characteristics and desires than non-forum posters?
    Perfectly true and I do understand statistic. I was making an arguement in a really bad way and I am sorry for that.

    The selection bias for online forums is just too damn high though. This forum is extremely overrepresented with normal and heroic raiders, and I would be surprised if you find even a single regular poster here who is playing the game but hasn't bought MoP yet even though as far as I know a decent amount of WoW players don't have MoP. The main idea of my arguement was that what is going on on the forums is in no way representative of what is going on in the game as a result of that selection bias.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post


    It's a super duper safe assumption that there is an enormous selection bias in the world of vocal forum posters.
    Against the current player base? Yes, that's safe. Against the millions and millions of subs that have quit (remember, the reported numbers are overall subs, including new ones, the amount of people that have left the game is staggeringly larger than current sub number reduction)? That's the more appropriate comparison.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Sodia View Post
    LOL did you read your own post byfore you post it :P Dude to your information Mop is exacly whot TBC and Wrath was and even more ... show me 1 point that was in oo so gr8 tbc/wrath that is not here ?? Endles Grinding and simple but hard TBC riding -chek Overhelming instanc eazines from wrath - chek So whot was so gr8 in TBC/Wrath that i mis here?? hmmmmmm cant remember or meaby just meaby youre one of thous forum trolls that just complein about everything coz you like it ?
    Did I read my post?! Did you read yours? How the hell is that english? I don't even know how to respond because I can't even understand it. The only thing I can get from is it that you think TBC/Wrath are exactly like MoP is but with more. That simple comment shows me you have no idea in the least about what Wrath/TBC had.

  5. #125
    Going by that statement one would wonder why haven't they put in instant teleporters to almost anywhere for the 'sake of convenience'

  6. #126
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birkhoff View Post
    This has to be the most infuriating tweet I have ever seen from Ghostcrawler

    Either the community managers are doing an atrocious job, or the designers are pretending complaints don't exist

    I mean, players have been complaining about WoW being more and more casual-friendly since WoTLK, complaining about its accessibility and convenience. This story really begins with the implementation of LFD towards the end of WOTLK, then flying mounts in cataclysm, and finally LFR. Dozens of LFR threads are made weekly, how come players rarely argue for less convenience?
    Hyperbole aside--most infuriating tweet ever?--I suppose the most disappointing thing about it from your perspective is that it's very likely true. And yet they still create things like raids and challenge modes with higher skill and difficulty required. I'll let you in on a little secret: forum noise is just that, noise. Three or four dozen people taking over threads and posting about how the game is too casual is not a mass movement. At least here, LFR threads are generally created by perhaps a couple of dozen people and a good percentage of those no longer play. Their opinion, much to their distress I'm sure, counts for a lot less.

    So there's that.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-07-15 at 05:29 PM.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  7. #127
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Noorri View Post
    Blizzard can use a ton of other metrics and statistics to figure out what is wrong and what is right in game. Forums are far more useful for PR and the occasional brilliant idea then they are for actually creating a game around..
    ???

    Who said anything about creating a game around?

    Forums are here for a very good reason... TO DISCUSS THE GAME.

    That means all the good and all the bad things about Wow.

    And believe it or not every game has parts which alot of its players hate on... and that part in Wow is LFR. Like i said, the fact LFR has become the most well discussed issue of Wow in its history certainly shows that. 2 years of the forums pumping out pages and pages of discussion about LFR.

    If u want to put your fingers in your ears and pretend that these forums dont prove there is a problem which needs sorting out then ur welcome to live in your own fantasy world.

  8. #128
    Titan Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    This is why Im so vocal about Ghostcrawler's stupid "Button bloat" debate. We don't need 4 abilities mixed into one, that only hinders strategy and forces players into "the rotation"

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by championknight View Post
    Going by that statement one would wonder why haven't they put in instant teleporters to almost anywhere for the 'sake of convenience'
    Have you played the game recently? Portals are everywhere.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Change the game back to what? How?

    In what way were TBC and Wrath similar that made them popular? None in particular except that they were early expansions. They were "new stuff" for a still relatively new game.

    You also have to remember (as has been pointed out above) that WoW's subscriber base turns over relatively frequently. While there are certainly many players who have been with the game since Vanilla, there are many, many more that have been playing for 6-18 months.
    I don't know in what ways TBC and Wrath became popular. I'm not claiming I do. I know what I think made them popular but that doesn't mean anything. The only thing I do know is the game was much more popular back then. The game being "new" wasn't what it was. The game being popular was. The game became popular due to word of mouth in the gaming world and a lot more advertisements and south park episode(s).

    Being "new" doesn't make you gain 12 million subs, you have to do something right to gain that many in the MMO world. They did things "right" back then but aren't doing them as "right" now. It doesn't take a genius to look at things we have now and things we had then and cross them off one at a time to find what went wrong.

    The only thing is I fear it might be too late for the game to recover itself. With the current style of player, WoW would take a hit fixing itself. I just don't know if the fixes would bring back all those it pushed away for years.




    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    It's a super duper safe assumption that there is an enormous selection bias in the world of vocal forum posters.
    I believe the forum posting world is pretty split on itself. It breeds the true hardcore gamers who want everything hard and such, like myself, and it breeds the complete opposite type. We have both extreme represented on the forums, but what we don't have is a majority. We see the hardcore gamers and the hardcore casuals, while I'm not saying it doesn't give a good balance on things, it doesn't show at all what the real majority does want. That real majority will never post anything nor will they speak up, but they will come and go when the game pleases them or doesn't.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    And believe it or not every game has parts which alot of its players hate on... and that part in Wow is LFR. Like i said, the fact LFR has become the most well discussed issue of Wow in its history certainly shows that. 2 years of the forums pumping out pages and pages of discussion about LFR.

    If u want to put your fingers in your ears and pretend that these forums dont prove there is a problem which needs sorting out then ur welcome to live in your own fantasy world.
    For every person that starts a thread complaining about LFR, there are hundreds of replies disagreeing with that sentiment.

    People who think LFR is a problem are the ones with their fingers in their ears.

  12. #132
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birkhoff View Post
    This has to be the most infuriating tweet I have ever seen from Ghostcrawler

    Either the community managers are doing an atrocious job, or the designers are pretending complaints don't exist

    I mean, players have been complaining about WoW being more and more casual-friendly since WoTLK, complaining about its accessibility and convenience. This story really begins with the implementation of LFD towards the end of WOTLK, then flying mounts in cataclysm, and finally LFR. Dozens of LFR threads are made weekly, how come players rarely argue for less convenience?
    Rarely doesn't mean not at all, which is how you seem to interpret it. Also, a few thousand whiny idiots on the official forums are a miniscule portion of the 8-12million people who have played this game at various points.

  13. #133
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepstrider View Post
    For every person that starts a thread complaining about LFR, there are hundreds of replies disagreeing with that sentiment.

    People who think LFR is a problem are the ones with their fingers in their ears.
    I wasnt saying LFR is a problem.

    Im saying that such a collosal amount of forum discussion about 1 subject shows that something is wrong. Something needs addressing. It may just requitre a minimal tweak. But the truth is that LFR in its current state is not right.

    Ru really trying to say that 2 years of constant and relentless forum discussion on 1 part of Wow shows that everything is going great?

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Have you played the game recently? Portals are everywhere.
    Well you still cannot portal to quest hubs or instances (if you are intending to solo) yet

    And you still have to walk to the portal instead of doing it from just outside Stormwind

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuel View Post
    So apparently people on the forums only account for a small minority of the playerbase? Well then why on earth did blizz listen to the forum complainers in 4.1 and decide to nerf all the heroics...
    The forum complainers weren't the ones they were listening to. Most likely, they listened to all the people who unsubbed and listed the reason for their quitting as "there is nothing for me to do once I hit level 85 because heroic dungeons are too damn hard and I don't want to invest the time to master them." Only Blizzard knows why they decide what they decide. You can't make accurate assumptions about why they nerf content. At no time did I see a Blizzard blog post stating, "We nerfed heroic dungeons because it's what forum complainers in 4.1 wanted."

  16. #136
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by championknight View Post
    Well you still cannot portal to quest hubs or instances (if you are intending to solo) yet

    And you still have to walk to the portal instead of doing it from just outside Stormwind
    First world problems.

  17. #137
    Deleted
    PvP players have been spaming for the removal of pve items from pvp since s8 to that point almost every QQ was based around it. Guess the vocal minority thing does not mean anything to him.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Hyperbole aside--most infuriating tweet ever?--I suppose the most disappointing thing about it from your perspective is that it's very likely true. And yet they still create things like raids and challenge modes with higher skill and difficulty required. I'll let you in on a little secret: forum noise is just that, noise. Three or four dozen people taking over threads and posting about how the game is too casual is not a mass movement. At least here, LFR threads are generally created by perhaps a couple of dozen people and a good percentage of those no longer play. Their opinion, much to their distress I'm sure, counts for a lot less.

    So there's that.
    His statement is true, but it has been the case forever on forums. There has never been a majority posting about anything ever but Blizzard has listened to the forums before. The most extreme forum topic I've ever seen was that using your real names thing with real id being required thread. That hit thousands of pages and even then it wasn't anywhere close to a majority posting.

    And again, while his statement is true, he picked a real crappy way/time to say what we all know. Is he actively trying to push people like the OP, and others like myself, away from the game? It sure seems like it with how he posted that. It seems like a "LFR is great and f*** you if you don't like it" kind of post. That kind of thing should be massively avoided by anyone in business ever, let alone a business who is bleeding people left and right these days.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    ???

    Who said anything about creating a game around?

    Forums are here for a very good reason... TO DISCUSS THE GAME.

    That means all the good and all the bad things about Wow.

    And believe it or not every game has parts which alot of its players hate on... and that part in Wow is LFR. Like i said, the fact LFR has become the most well discussed issue of Wow in its history certainly shows that. 2 years of the forums pumping out pages and pages of discussion about LFR.

    If u want to put your fingers in your ears and pretend that these forums dont prove there is a problem which needs sorting out then ur welcome to live in your own fantasy world.
    Maybe creation is a bad word in this context. How about change then?

    And whine on forums is for the most part irrelevant. LFR is the new hate object for people who have a need to push others down in order to feel good about themselves. In vanilla it was the Unstoppable Force, in BC it was Badge gear that was clost to T6 in power, in WotLK it was easy heroics and in Cataclysm it was Dragon Soul and the 5-man heroics. If you take away LFR as that hate object they will move on to a new feature to hate on.

    There will always be whiners. The smart thing to do is to plug your ears and ignore them.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by championknight View Post
    Well you still cannot portal to quest hubs or instances (if you are intending to solo) yet
    You portal directly to ToT quest hub... Is that port where you are sitting? No, but still a portal to it.

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