Current issues with Death Knights overall.

[Deleted]

It was council btw and the dk is Nedaa.

As far as i could test SoO looks BS for every melee so far and if dks stay like that am gonna reroll no way am gonna gimp hc progression because i play a half shit class that only "badies" enjoy toping dmg in normal/lfr progression.

*Nedda original thread/post

I am pretty sure that blizzard is going to make 1-2 dks (25man) mandatory again via Mass Grip mechanics/new AMZ for some fights and the number tweaking isn't done yet so... don't give up too soon.

[Nangz]

i tried to read your post but after this one i could only laugh about you sorry.........
if you bomb the bats, they die to quickly for our diseases to tick for more then one or two time, other ae classes are far better,
if you dont kill the bat the dmg dont matter at all of course you could push but it doesnt matter.

if you look through all the logs most of them are pushed with dmg on sources that don't matter.

none of the rating site tells the real truth, raidbots is way to high because of pushed logs, simcraft is a bit low and so on


but if you are playing a dk you will notice that we are the bottom of the charts if we talk about dmg that matters in the fight,
there a some we can get higher places but in general we are way to low and that will not get better in the next content because
all the reason in the posts before....

I do not notice that I am at the bottom of the charts. Talking about "damage that matters" is so dependent on the fight that you will need to provide examples of how we are "at the bottom" and I will gladly provide examples of how we are not.

In addition, I have to ask what damage "matters". I can easily think of controversial example.

[Kronik85]

I actually think Tyranitar has a bit of a point. Are we complaining about the right issues atm and are we asking the right questions? If Frost was performing well for instance would we be questioning whether Killing Machine was broken or not?

I'ma bit baffled lately, if our DPS is bad or we are worried about how things might shape up next tier then surely it's worth asking whether Blizzard feel our performance is bad? They seem quite happy to talk with Hunters about their DPS being poor when it seems that they are about as well placed as we are so why is this a problem for Hunters in Blizzards eyes?

I'll try to stop ending every sentence with a question mark and get to the point. How do we need to rephrase or revisit our complaints in order to add legitimacy to them?

Bollocks....did it again.

[kynthrus]

Remember when blood boil looked cool for that one week? Yea that was neat. All blizzard needs to do is bring back Duel wield tanking for DK's that would instantly win my subscription back.

[Veyne]

Blood boil still uses the old Hammer of the Righteousness animation, that spell has such potential to look cool but just doesn't.

Just a minor point about this one.

They made it look really fucking awesome at one point on the PTR at the ass-end of Wrath (when they made Blood THE tank spec), but it was causing faaaaar too many frame rate issues for a lot of people.

- - - Updated - - -

Remember when blood boil looked cool for that one week? Yea that was neat. All blizzard needs to do is bring back Duel wield tanking for DK's that would instantly win my subscription back.

Bring BACK dual wield tanking? Dual wield tanking was ALWAYS inferior.

[Flarbard]

nothing is stopping you from dw tanking now. its just as horrible as ever

[broodax]

I thought everybody thumbs up on the idea of 75 being the rune regen tier? i am wrong i guess (honestly, i hate that tier as well, tells me that blizzard doesn't have imagination).

Um... congratulations for beating the worst specs of all the other classes? We are 9th of 11 classes on that list, ahead of only hunters and paladins, and overall dps is a horrible way to look at anything because the one fight where we're #1 is entirely based on meaningless damage and scews the numbers horribly (if you look at individual fights, hunters and paladins even beat us the majority of the time). I've gone through the list of all the fights on this board multiple times and we are almost always #9-#11.

We WERE very good at the beginning of the tier, but every other class, except warriors in some cases, scales better, and we have been passed.

[Deleted]

*Nedda original thread/post

I am pretty sure that blizzard is going to make 1-2 dks (25man) mandatory again via Mass Grip mechanics/new AMZ for some fights and the number tweaking isn't done yet so... don't give up too soon.

Yes sorry, felt super lazy to double check the name !
I don't give up hope but am rather used to how they handle our class since the WotLK op fail.

[Nico87]

I don't play my DK very often outside soloing old dungeons and raids for mounts and stuff, so my voice doesn't really matter.

Let me say this though; mobility.

I guess the biggest problem is that DK's doesn't have a baseline speed increase ability. If they did, DA would be fine. Right now, it isn't.

See the thing is, almost every other class have baseline speed increase abilities plus a talent for even more mobility. In my opinion, it should only be that way for Rogues. Instead we have double charges and what not for Warriors, Blazing Speed for Mages, Monks have three speed increase talents, Enhancement Shamans have Spirit Walk (on top of Ghost Wolf), and the list goes on.

So yeah, make DA baseline and work a different speed increase ability into the level 57 tier, say 20%. It doesn't really make that much of a difference that it kinda crashes with Chillblains because while it would be useful to have them separate, you hardly need both of them on the same boss fight.

[Raddest]

Pasted what I wrote from this thread on the official forums:

With all the extremely good feedback and suggestions, intelligently written posts, how has a blue not responded to this yet? What's it going to take? These are legitimate issues that need to be dealt with asap.

Has anyone from Blizzard made any mention in regards to the state of Death Knights at all since patch 5.1?

I don't know if it helps, but get everyone click 'Request Sticky' on the first post, maybe that helps?

Great constructive criticism guys. A lot of well written posts, well done. Keep it up.

[Blachshma]

I don't get why they don't change Death Grip, its useless on bosses unless you need the extra taunt for adds. Why not make it that if a boss/mob is immune to gripping (and all bosses are), you get gripped to them instead along with an initial cool looking strike for aggro. It would still be different enough from Heroic Leap because you wouldn't be able to just aim it anywhere you want, but rather just to the target, but at least it'd be something. On Ji-Kun, even with Death's Advance, I stuggle a lot on being in melee range of the boss when the Draft is over, and some poor healer/dpser gets the stack, and is either one shotted or close to it. I have to pop DA, and go unholy presnece and go back to blood just in time to get the stack in melee range, which is a pain.

[Deleted]

I wrote a "non-QQ, attempting to be constructive" thread on the EU PTR forums a few weeks back and it was just moved to the DK forums... Sooo I've basically given up. Ghostcrawler/other devs don't seem to respond to any questions regarding DKs at this point and, the more I play my DK (which I still enjoy) the more I realise our limitations... Especially with 2H frost.

I've outlined issues in other threads and how I feel they could be addressed (as re-posted by DarkStarUndead on page one of this thread) but, unless Blizzard feel there's something to "fix" with us I actually doubt we're going to see any changes at all. Hoping some sort of damage tuning (for DKs) occurs going into 5.4 but with the pvp community quick to jump on/cry about any sort of damage buff I can see them leaving any "tuning" to trinkets or set bonuses.

It just saddens me a bit that frost mages get a complete mastery overhaul with new animations while we've been virtually untouched (minus the unholy QoL changes) for a while now.

[devilminion]

Dks are the only class where more than 50% of teh players defend blizz saying our class is fine.. so no shit DKs dont get any changes. looked at the ptr posts? most posts defend that we are fine since we are lower-middle dps wise among meele.

[Hurwyn]

Rolled an Unholy DK alt for the fantasy of it. Feels so clunky to me, I'm getting used to it somewhat, but I don't know, doesn't feel very fluid at all.

[ant13]

I don't know, maybe blizzard want to make up for the OPiness that DKs came up on their release... I can't explain it otherwise.

At least I would expect a dps talent tier, there is none. In addition our mobilty sucks, dont tell me about DA, because its like a fart... cant compare to charge/sprint/dash that other melee classes have. At least they could provide a glyph to make up for it, let say a glyph of reverse grip, where our grip instead of gripping the target tο us, would gripped us on it. There are so many options to make talents/abilities more usefull.

I don't have any problem of one spec of a class beeing superior than the others, but I dislike the fact that even our top dps spec is deep down in the charts right know... and who knows, maybe in SoO the gap will get bigger, having in mind the bad stat scaling... (haven't play on 5.4 ptr)

However, I will never give up my DK.

[Azerul]

My Dream solution is, remove active part of DA, make it baseline ability for DKs (you passively move %10 faster and movement impairing effects cannot reduce you below %70ms), and add talent :

Death Rush: Reduces your enemies movement speed by %50 and increases your movement speed by %50 for 4 second and makes you immune to movement impairing effects during that 4 seconds. CD 15 sec, REPLACES Death Grip.

Numbers can be tweaked but that would be DECENT improvement to class.

[Tyranitar]

I actually think Tyranitar has a bit of a point. Are we complaining about the right issues atm and are we asking the right questions? If Frost was performing well for instance would we be questioning whether Killing Machine was broken or not?

I'ma bit baffled lately, if our DPS is bad or we are worried about how things might shape up next tier then surely it's worth asking whether Blizzard feel our performance is bad? They seem quite happy to talk with Hunters about their DPS being poor when it seems that they are about as well placed as we are so why is this a problem for Hunters in Blizzards eyes?

I'll try to stop ending every sentence with a question mark and get to the point. How do we need to rephrase or revisit our complaints in order to add legitimacy to them?

Bollocks....did it again.

So how about putting a well structured text together where we
1) Say what we think dosn't work well with DKs 2) Why it dosn't work well and 3) what solutions could be possible

We could put our minds together, just like we already did in this thread, but create a whole, structured and easy to read text in the process, which we could hand over to one of the Blizz guys.

Of course that would mean lots of discussion and argumentation, but I think we can handle that.

And if we put a good text together, Blizzard has to notice us.


Also, I finally want to give my opinion about this Topic: I am not raiding, so I cannot really speak about performance. But what I agree about is the missing class flavor. Nearly every strike as a quite boring "whoosh" noise. That our DPS masteris are boring is no secret. I also agree with the boring / "bad" designed talents. I think the OP made very good points.

Additionally, all the times I've seen somebody asking Blizz to change DKs they argued by saying "DKs already offer lots of utility". But I don't feel like that. Things like Deathgrip or our LV90 Talents are barely useful in a raid environment (at least in LFR). AMS is less of an utility than a compensation for a clunky mechanic (for regenerating runic power) or low survivability. Current AMZ is rarely useful (but in the right moment it's great), future AMZ is just a bad copy of aura mastery (same effect but in a small zone).

[Riven]

so how about putting a well structured text together where we
1) say what we think dosn't work well with dks 2) why it dosn't work well and 3) what solutions could be possible

we could put our minds together, just like we already did in this thread, but create a whole, structured and easy to read text in the process, which we could hand over to one of the blizz guys.

Of course that would mean lots of discussion and argumentation, but i think we can handle that.

And if we put a good text together, blizzard has to notice us.

tryingggg to! D:

[Enosh]

So how about putting a well structured text together where we
1) Say what we think dosn't work well with DKs 2) Why it dosn't work well and 3) what solutions could be possible

We could put our minds together, just like we already did in this thread, but create a whole, structured and easy to read text in the process, which we could hand over to one of the Blizz guys.

Of course that would mean lots of discussion and argumentation, but I think we can handle that.

And if we put a good text together, Blizzard has to notice us.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9499490725
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9423502347

I don't see what more people can do
plenty of good threads about DK issues and scaling problems in the MoP beta, 5.2 ptr and now, all mostly ignored

but then again, I think that good, reasonable arguments mean fuck all, things only change when a lot of people whine, you think KJC would have been changed like 5 times this PTR if warlocks didn't whine like crazy about it?

[Tyranitar]

Your post is good, no doubt. But I'm not sure if thats something that could be handed to any Blizzard guy to convince him.

I think a very nice, visually enhanced article would be great.

A very good example would be this:

http://www.diablofans.com/topic/9937...rue-potential/

What could be shown:

* Examples for "better" talents
* Examples for other visuals

And probably many more things that don't come to my mind