[spoiler] Ghostcrawler confirms ridiculous Alliance outcome in 5.4

[wych]

I've noticed that blizzard plays around with new tech integration before doing something full-blown, for instance the BG/LFG allowing different servers to play together, then CRZ, and soon merging the battlegroups (I know I oversimplified that).

I hope that the zone based persistent pvp we saw with Krasarang Wilds develops into a persistent zone pvp explosion with real objectives, not just dailies. The ability to put any number of people into CRZ-like instanced zones opens a lot of big possibilities. Crossing my fingers that I'm right on this. A reason to leave the city and maybe even the queue would be great.

TL;DR Hopefully the new technological changes they're making make bigger things like that a reality.

The thing is they have finite resources.

And to write a progressive storyline where the war advances (particularly through old zones) constantly back and forth would take a lot of development time away from raiding and such which I don't believe anybody wants, thus I want them to just draw a line under the whole sorry affair.

[delus]

Complete bullshit. Wrathion said it would have been drawn out. A year just to take Thunder Bluff with massive casualties and "the rest of the Horde would have caved eventually." Wrathion was even backing Garrosh until he turned half the Horde against himself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7wVt733LM

Lol, What? You sound mad bro. He was backing a Garrosh led Horde but the fragmented Horde is at Varian's mercy. He says that thunder bluff will fall and the rest would have caved eventually (after org would have been captured). That is what this entire thread is about. Varian could have made the decision to annihilate the Horde there but he chose not to. Thanks for proving my point though.

[MathAddict]

Nobody is asking for it to be alliance centric, they are asking for a balance and coherent writing and gameplay that makes sense and is as equally intriguing for both sides.

Some people have enjoyed the alliance for a long, long time and have grown attached to it.

Saying "QQ just reroll" doesn't work

It's almost impossible task. You cannot have two factions that hate each other and write a story that makes both sides feel great all while maintaining quality writing. One of the two groups will always get the short end of the stick.

Don't you think it is a bit much to watch the horde go through three epic set backs in a row (Civil War, siege on the horde capital, and losing the warchief). Now you want to add more to that stack?

I don't seem to recall the alliance going through equally epic setbacks. I don't think a few questing hubs lost equates to a civil War, siege on stormwind, and a dead warchief.

Undoubtedly someone will say: "Oh, but the horde is laying siege to org and killing garrosh too!"

If that's the case, why would you want to further punish the sect of the horde that hates garrosh and his actions? That's the part of the horde that peace could be built with. Laying a bunch of demands down on the good sect of horde will only fuel the flames of diplomatic difficulties down the road.

Either way, it's a big loss for the horde. It's either a huge humbling moment or a gigantic military defeat. The alliance fan-ship wants more? It's virtually impossible without saying the entire horde, the good and bad sects, lost. With a dual faction game, saying one side completely loses disenfranchises half of the player base.

What you want is nearly impossible and is too much to ask for within the structure of the game.

[wych]

It's almost impossible task. You cannot have two factions that hate each other and write a story that makes both sides feel great all while maintaining quality writing. One of the two groups will always get the short end of the stick.

Don't you think it is a bit much to watch the horde go through three epic set backs in a row (Civil War, siege on the horde capital, and losing the warchief). Now you want to add more to that stack?

I don't seem to recall the alliance going through equally epic setbacks. I don't think a few questing hubs lost equates to a civil War, siege on stormwind, and a dead warchief.

Undoubtedly someone will say: "Oh, but the horde is laying siege to org and killing garrosh too!"

If that's the case, why would you want to further punish the sect of the horde that hates garrosh and his actions? That's the part of the horde that peace could be built with. Laying a bunch of demands down on the good sect of horde will only fuel the flames of diplomatic difficulties down the road.

Either way, it's a big loss for the horde. It's either a huge humbling moment or a gigantic military defeat. The alliance fan-ship wants more? It's virtually impossible without saying the entire horde, the good and bad sects, lost. With a dual faction game, saying one side completely loses disenfranchises half of the player base.

What you want is nearly impossible and is too much to ask for within the structure of the game.

The horde are apparently "taking all these epic set backs" yet they've came out of it better.

I'm talking in terms of logic, it is clear at the end of SoO that the alliance are the stronger faction right now and thus it makes no sense for us to leave empty handed, without the land Garrosh took from us.

Give the alliance massive civil war and loss, if it is told properly and with good inclusive gameplay i'd absolutely love it.

However, right now the alliance are just tacked onto the SoO as seen by the events of 5.3.

[MathAddict]

I'm talking in terms of logic, it is clear at the end of SoO that the alliance are the stronger faction right now and thus it makes no sense for us to leave empty handed, without the land Garrosh took from us.

It also makes sense for Varian to show a sign of good will to the new warchief. What would make for a better peace, one full of conditions or one where Varian ask for nothing? In-game, the zones alliance lost were due to balancing issues. Vanilla wow had more alliance zones than horde, cata fixed that issue. At best, you could only have the zones back on paper. Would that make you feel better? If a blue came out and officially said "Ashenvale is now more alliance dominated and a new human camp has been set up in hillsbrand," would that make everything right?

The alliance is not leaving empty handed, they are leaving with the new horde owing the alliance a giant debt of gratitude. There might be some point in the game where the new horde will have to come to the aid of the alliance. If Varian fucks over the new horde, how likely is the new warchief to send help if the legion is at stormwinds door step?

[Deleted]

That argument is bunk because every land used to belong to the Trolls, and nobody is going to argue that we need to let the Zandalari take it all back.

http://greyshades.files.wordpress.co...erothlarge.jpg

Also, the speculation that elves came from trolls has never been confirmed.

[Enosh]

The alliance is not leaving empty handed, they are leaving with the new horde owing the alliance a giant debt of gratitude. There might be some point in the game where the new horde will have to come to the aid of the alliance. If Varian fucks over the new horde, how likely is the new warchief to send help if the legion is at stormwinds door step?

you know what is also bad for when the legion is at stormwind?
half your population being dead because the horde decided to start yet another war, which is about as likely as the legion invading

[MathAddict]

you know what is also bad for when the legion is at stormwind?
half your population being dead because the horde decided to start yet another war, which is about as likely as the legion invading

If the alliance had just been more welcoming to races such as the tauren, blood elves, and forsaken maybe there would be very little horde to be at war with eh?

[Aquamonkey]

Lol, What? You sound mad bro. He was backing a Garrosh led Horde but the fragmented Horde is at Varian's mercy. He says that thunder bluff will fall and the rest would have caved eventually (after org would have been captured). That is what this entire thread is about. Varian could have made the decision to annihilate the Horde there but he chose not to. Thanks for proving my point though.

No, you said Varian could crush the Horde then and there at Orgrimmar, "Actually, Varian is pretty much able to crush the Horde then and there according to Wrathion but he chooses not to." That is completely wrong. Wrathion says it would have been a long, drawn out conflict with massive casualties, lasting at least a year before the Horde would have been defeated.

[delus]

No, you said Varian could crush the Horde then and there at Orgrimmar, "Actually, Varian is pretty much able to crush the Horde then and there according to Wrathion but he chooses not to." That is completely wrong. Wrathion says it would have been a long, drawn out conflict with massive casualties, lasting at least a year before the Horde would have been defeated.

Sure, capturing org would be a first step. Crushing the horde at org and capturing it would only be a single victory but a devastating one which would decide the outcome of all the battles to come. They would still have to assault all of the Horde capitals of course.

[Solzan Nemesis]

Name one thing the Alliance has done that's even close to Theramore.

Go ahead, I'll give you time.

And if you mention Taurajo I'll laugh at you. And if you mention the Purge of Dalaran then you clearly don't understand the full story.

Culling of Stratholme.

[Holtzmann]

If the alliance had just been more welcoming to races such as the tauren, blood elves, and forsaken maybe there would be very little horde to be at war with eh?

The Tauren have joined the Horde even before the Alliance ever had contact with them. Had they been independent at the time, there's a very good chance the Tauren would have been either friendly or neutral to the Alliance (the Tauren even allowed Dwarves to dig for archaeological discoveries in Mulgore at some point). Blood Elves got screwed over by one racist idiot, the rest of the High Elves are still around. And then the Alliance offered to take them back into the fold, but Jaina messed it up. As for the Forsaken... well, if they weren't chronic plaguebombing backstabbers, I'm sure we could get along.

Culling of Stratholme.

Wait, are we going for things the Alliance did to itself? Specially something that's still debated to this day (whether Arthas made things better or worse by trapping the citizens of Stratholme and trying to contain the infection)? Well... alright, then.

The Horde is responsible for the Lich King, due to it being originally Ner'Zhul.

[Solzan Nemesis]

The Horde is responsible for the Lich King, due to it being originally Ner'Zhul.

Nay I am just in it for a good laugh. But night elves summoned the Burning Legion and caused the Sundering.

All in all, they really have not done anything to bad. Most bad things the Allies do are to them selves.

[Holtzmann]

Nay I am just in it for a good laugh. But night elves summoned the Burning Legion and caused the Sundering.

All in all, they really have not done anything to bad. Most bad things the Allies do are to them selves.

Sundering? Bah, the world had it coming. :P

[Theodoxus]

I ain't reading through 50 pages of this thread, so maybe this has already been expressed - but it sure seems like a lot of you are seemingly placing blame on us Horde players for your lack of story.

I didn't build a mana bomb, I simply played the scenario where it was used. I didn't destroy Southshore, I simply played the revamped quests in Hillsbrad. I didn't remodel Orgrimmar (or particularly like it), I simply re-memorized the new layout.

Go scream at Blizzard for these and whatever else you feel so disenfranchised over - but stop fucking blaming the players of either faction. We have ZERO impact on where the story goes and are simply playing along like you are.

[Oncereborn]

Why is it always the Alliance that complain about things like this?

[Notos]

Why is it always the Alliance that complain about things like this?

Because they feel they got the short end of the stick when it comes to storytelling. Only reason I feel bad for them is because Blizz turned Tyrande into an idiot over the past couple expansions.

[Holtzmann]

I ain't reading through 50 pages of this thread, so maybe this has already been expressed - but it sure seems like a lot of you are seemingly placing blame on us Horde players for your lack of story.

I didn't build a mana bomb, I simply played the scenario where it was used. I didn't destroy Southshore, I simply played the revamped quests in Hillsbrad. I didn't remodel Orgrimmar (or particularly like it), I simply re-memorized the new layout.

Go scream at Blizzard for these and whatever else you feel so disenfranchised over - but stop fucking blaming the players of either faction. We have ZERO impact on where the story goes and are simply playing along like you are.

Pretty sure the majority of the complaints here are directed at Blizzard. We're annoyed at Blizzard that Horde players get cooler storylines.

We get annoyed at Horde players when they say they haven't been getting what seems to be the most attention from the developers/writers (read, when they disagree with us), but blaming them for it happening is just silly.

[BrerBear]

Either way, it's a big loss for the horde. It's either a huge humbling moment or a gigantic military defeat.

I look forward to the "huge humbling moment" reflected in the crowd reactions at BlizzCon this year...

... but I won't hold my breath. Maybe not as huge or as humbling as you think it is?

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty sure the majority of the complaints here are directed at Blizzard. We're annoyed at Blizzard that Horde players get cooler storylines.

We get annoyed at Horde players when they say they haven't been getting what seems to be the most attention from the developers/writers (read, when they disagree with us), but blaming them for it happening is just silly.

This, completely and utterly.

[MathAddict]

I look forward to the "huge humbling moment" reflected in the crowd reactions at BlizzCon this year...

... but I won't hold my breath. Maybe not as huge or as humbling as you think it is?

not for the players, for the story. I don't think most horde or alliance players give a flying fuck.