1. #1041
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    I'm surprised so many are upset, it was obvious they had to make the change. The whole point of this talent pass is to balance them out and if Fire Totems are included its just too much of a damage increase for Enhancement. I'm glad they did, I was no looking forward to Magma totem making its way back into the single target rotation.
    Or you could have read the thread and realized often enough it wouldn't be a dps increase. If we want to be picky it's more of a dps decrease than projection now. Should we make projection on GCD to balance? Or is that 0.1% dps increase not important to you?

    How about SBT? That's a lot more of a dps decrease than this talent would provide, and ironically is pretty much the only thing that can make this talent worth it in pretty much any situation for the dps specs.

    But when it's a pathetic increase that most people in this thread will never actually successfully pull off twice a raid night (hint: we simplified it down but it isn't even as simple as it lasting a minute, there are indeed more factors), everyone whines about it until it gets changed.

    Least they can do is try to make the second totem placement of the same school off the GCD if they are going to be that childish and pedantic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  2. #1042
    Now that Fire totems are excluded the talent is no longer mandatory for DPS. That's a good thing IMO but the talent is soooo situational that I don't even see 1 fight where I would use it in T14 or T15... So in the end the new talent is 100% worse than the old one. Great !

  3. #1043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recom View Post
    Now that Fire totems are excluded the talent is no longer mandatory for DPS. That's a good thing IMO but the talent is soooo situational that I don't even see 1 fight where I would use it in T14 or T15... So in the end the new talent is 100% worse than the old one. Great !
    So in conjunction with the old one for PvE purposes, both useless.

    Good.
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

  4. #1044
    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    It is now 100% inferior to CoTE. Any totem regularly used that blocks other totems usage are on a low enough CD to be affected by CoTE.
    but CoTE has a cd. This one is passive. Say you used CoTE to reset HST CD. a few moments later while you have bulwark totem our there is a fear where you want to use tremor. now you loose your bulwark and can't reset it as CoTE has CD.
    I think it is not discussable that totemic persistance is also a situational talent which is in competition with CoTE for resto. in pvp it could be really useful.

  5. #1045
    Quote Originally Posted by Schadow View Post
    So in conjunction with the old one for PvE purposes, both useless.

    Good.
    Heh I also find difficult to comprehend the logic behind 'now it's all good for PVE because it is all equally useless'.

    In PVP tho, the new talent might have greater impact.
    Last edited by bladisha; 2013-07-27 at 10:07 AM.

  6. #1046
    Deleted
    http://ptr.wowdb.com/item-sets/1183-...an-enhancement
    if these are going to pass, the secondary stats are going to be rocking!

  7. #1047
    They need to completely remove and replace the tier 3 talents. They just don't do enough at the moment.

  8. #1048
    Quote Originally Posted by Rangar View Post
    They need to completely remove and replace the tier 3 talents. They just don't do enough at the moment.
    Kinda agree, imo they should make TP baseline and change all 3 talents.

    That Ghost Wolf-related tier that someone suggested seemed pretty awesome.

  9. #1049
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    Quote Originally Posted by zandervont View Post
    http://ptr.wowdb.com/item-sets/1183-...an-enhancement
    if these are going to pass, the secondary stats are going to be rocking!
    I was thinking the same, haste and mastery everwhere.
    "Man knows - he knows that nothing will begin unless he speaks. And nothing will change, unless he knows."


  10. #1050
    lol good old stupid blizzard, oh those pesky shamans found a use for tier 3 talents to gain dps, better remove that.

    oh the shamans once again think tier 3 is useless and irrelevant, idiots wasting time, hire some better designers already if thats the best you can think up.

  11. #1051
    3 of the 5 Resto tier pieces have Mastery on them. Unless they buff the T16 4pc significantly over how it was performing the last time I was testing it last weekend (~200k healing per SWG use), I suspect that we will avoid tier gear past the 2 piece. Mastery is such a terrible stat for us, and taking 4 piece means taking at least 2 Mastery items that are certain to be inferior to the offset items in that slot.

  12. #1052
    Is the 4p still bugged on the PTR and do nothing?

  13. #1053
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    3 of the 5 Resto tier pieces have Mastery on them. Unless they buff the T16 4pc significantly over how it was performing the last time I was testing it last weekend (~200k healing per SWG use), I suspect that we will avoid tier gear past the 2 piece. Mastery is such a terrible stat for us, and taking 4 piece means taking at least 2 Mastery items that are certain to be inferior to the offset items in that slot.
    I was thinking the same actually, but I don't think you will want to drop tier 15 2p.

    So then I would go with:
    T15 Chest (Crit+Haste)
    T15 Legs (Spirit+Haste)
    T16 Head (Spirit+Haste)
    T16 Gloves (Spirit+Haste)
    And then these shoulders: http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/103816-sh...f-foul-streams

    Which definitely means that you can go for higher haste caps than 7613 without sacrificing too much Intellect.

  14. #1054
    Deleted
    Now that the fire totems are out of the new talent can we forget that and leave it alone ? half a dozen pages of people arguing if it's mandatory or not realy takes the focus away from the rest of the PTR testing feedback.


    Anyone testing resto on the PTR on the new encounters ? how is it going with the new buffs to healing rain, is it noticeable in 10 men for example? anyone using chain heal more or is it still a "secondary" spell like in 5.3 ? is it worth spamming in 5.4 or you generaly keep doing the tidal waves' buffed single target healing even in AOE situations?

    Realy anxious to know if resto will be a powerfull choice in 5.4 in 10 men, i reckon in 25 men it will be good.

  15. #1055
    Quote Originally Posted by fneelis View Post
    I was thinking the same actually, but I don't think you will want to drop tier 15 2p.

    So then I would go with:
    T15 Chest (Crit+Haste)
    T15 Legs (Spirit+Haste)
    T16 Head (Spirit+Haste)
    T16 Gloves (Spirit+Haste)
    And then these shoulders: http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/103816-sh...f-foul-streams

    Which definitely means that you can go for higher haste caps than 7613 without sacrificing too much Intellect.

    wouldnt the jump in stat budget mean more than the bonus though. the jump in Ilevel is pretty huge

  16. #1056
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    Quote Originally Posted by fneelis View Post
    I was thinking the same actually, but I don't think you will want to drop tier 15 2p.

    So then I would go with:
    T15 Chest (Crit+Haste)
    T15 Legs (Spirit+Haste)
    T16 Head (Spirit+Haste)
    T16 Gloves (Spirit+Haste)
    And then these shoulders: http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/103816-sh...f-foul-streams

    Which definitely means that you can go for higher haste caps than 7613 without sacrificing too much Intellect.
    I am at 10513 haste (exactly) and I haven't sacrificed that much intellect either, so I don't see how you can say that.
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

  17. #1057
    Deleted
    I was refering to the higher Healing Rain haste cap; 15316 which I can obtain today but I have to sacrifice too much intellect for it to actually be beneficial.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Txiv View Post
    wouldnt the jump in stat budget mean more than the bonus though. the jump in Ilevel is pretty huge
    Most likely not, atleast not during progress since you would have to get 2x of the new "Thunderforged" to replace the chest/legs then. And that is not very likely to happen while I'm still progressing.

    Once progress is over there is time to calculate and compare it properly. But then it's also pointless since the new expansion is next and all the gear becomes worthless. Unless you want to do topparses during farm ofc.

  18. #1058
    Yeah, I don't see any of the haste caps between 7613 and 15316 being worth stacking to. The totem breakpoints are too unreliable, and extra Riptide ticks are not a large enough throughput increase to justify the loss of secondary stats. If I were to go to 15316 now it would be something like -3000 INT, -3000 SPI, -1800 Crit for something that works out to about a 4% output increase - definitely not worth it.

    I also question how much Spirit is going to be required to fully take advantage of that 15,000 haste build. Our Chain Heal cast time will be down to 1.5 seconds. Even at 7613 haste, 16,000 Spirit feels sketchy on Ra-Den for longevity, so I suspect we will need to have much higher Spirit levels to run at that haste level, especially with CH becoming much more worth casting (so we will consume more mana than we do now).

  19. #1059
    Deleted
    I would probably try out some haste caps inbetween if I could reach it by only sacrificing crit/mastery, but I would never give up Intellect/Spirit for those caps.

  20. #1060
    The 8882 HST threshold might be worth gearing to if you can get to it through pure reforging and are taking Rushing Streams, because that talent more than doubles the value of HST breakpoints. You probably need around 9200 haste to actually reliably reach that with the totem latency buggyness. The 11,471 HTT breakpoint (and it probably needs 12,000 Spirit) probably won't be attainable through just reforging until mostly full heroic gear, but I guess HTT breakpoints also become 2.5 times more valuable in 5.4 with the 25 man target cap.

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