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  1. #101
    Pandaren Monk thewallofsleep's Avatar
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    I really don't see the problem. I've often wanted to level up my alts faster even faster than heirlooms and guild perk allows.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Yobtar View Post
    As a consumer I know the difference between essential and optional. I would have a problem if they increased the monthly cost of WoW or increase the box cost of an expansion but when they are sell cosmetic items, I don't mind.
    Keeping with our helms discussion, you don't think it's dubious that a huge part of this game is getting cool gear and so they take some cool gear, albeit statless gear, and stick a price tag on it?

    What would you guess more players care about these days: Looking cool, or getting +10 more agility on some pants? Surely players care about BOTH, but which one do you feel most players care about MORE.

    Given how well received x-mogging was, and how x-mogging has become pretty much an entire way to play the game, I'd say more people care about looking cool. So, given x-mogs popularity as a feature, do you not think it's gross that now some of the x-mog gear has a price tag on it?

    As far as the XP potions... they have created this huge gap between 1-90 mostly out of necessity I suppose because of WoW's power progression model, but they themselves admit that 99% of the content they create is for high level players only. They admit that it is a problem for new players just coming into the game, yet they do nothing to really address the gap, still have a fairly high entry cost to just buy all the games, and on top of it, stick some XP potions in the shop for a price tag.

    Their solution to a problem they have admitted to at least inadvertently created is to tax us for the privilege to bypass said problem?

    Am I understand this right?
    Religion isn't the absence of reason. It's merely the presence of faith.
    Heroes of the Storm : all day erryday

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevvy88 View Post
    Keeping with our helms discussion, you don't think it's dubious that a huge part of this game is getting cool gear and so they take some cool gear, albeit statless gear, and stick a price tag on it?

    What would you guess more players care about these days: Looking cool, or getting +10 more agility on some pants? Surely players care about BOTH, but which one do you feel most players care about MORE.

    Given how well received x-mogging was, and how x-mogging has become pretty much an entire way to play the game, I'd say more people care about looking cool. So, given x-mogs popularity as a feature, do you not think it's gross that now some of the x-mog gear has a price tag on it?

    As far as the XP potions... they have created this huge gap between 1-90 mostly out of necessity I suppose because of WoW's power progression model, but they themselves admit that 99% of the content they create is for high level players only. They admit that it is a problem for new players just coming into the game, yet they do nothing to really address the gap, still have a fairly high entry cost to just buy all the games, and on top of it, stick some XP potions in the shop for a price tag.

    Their solution to a problem they have admitted to at least inadvertently created is to tax us for the privilege to bypass said problem?

    Am I understand this right?
    No, you really aren't understanding it right.

  4. #104
    i don't get it, it's a subscription based game, i am already paid for the cd's and paying a subscription fee just so they can pay their salaries and make new content, so why do they have to make a cash shop exactly? it works in games with the freemium model, but it's just obnoxious when it's done to a game i'm already paying for.

    it's like paying a subscription to the gym, and then being asked pay ekstra for using the machines and tools except the floor mat with the reasoning that you can train all of your muscles without the machines.

  5. #105
    I would love it if people stopped using "Blizzard is a company and wants to make money" as an argument against people who don't like the Blizzard Store. It's based on an incomplete understanding of how free markets work... Yes, a company's primary goal is to make money, but it is ALSO true that consumers' goals are to maximize the satisfaction they get from the money they spend. This is a much more sensitive issue than simply buying or not buying a complex product when parts of it are changed. In the end, it will come to that, but maintaining a dialogue with the company about what features they are or aren't willing to accept is a way for consumers to pursue their own interest, and it's a perfectly valid thing to do.

    My only problem with the store is the risk of the game becoming bland for those who do not make these extra purchases. As long as the vanity items on the store have their own independent themes, something that can connect with the game but doesn't look like it could have an obvious source in the world (like the celestial steed, heart of of the aspects, lil' version of some bosses, tyrael charger, even the helms as far as I'm concerned), I'm fine with it. It truly seems like something extra.

    However, if the newest store items will always have the same theme as the most recent patch/expansion, and it feels like those items could have been a valid part of that in-game content, then it messes with my immersion and enjoyment of that content. The Armored Bloodwing (and potentially the Fey drake) seems to fit this pattern, and I'm worried that it will continue. Would you have enjoyed Firelands more if the Pureblood Firehawk was a store mount released with the patch?

    Now, the easiest way to make this work while alienating as few people as possible is to make the battle coins used for store purchases also obtainable in game in some form or fashion. In that case I would still view the vanity items as valid in game content, even though you can take a shortcut to obtaining them with cash...

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Allarius View Post
    No, you really aren't understanding it right.
    The most illumination you seem to offer is conservative buzzwords (over-entitled) and "YOU'RE AN IDIOT" type responses, so, I suppose I'll keep on not understanding it right with all my pleb friends who don't live in Visa Ville of Chase Bank, USA.

    You are a master of debate. If you don't have a problem with it because you just don't care that's fine, but don't respond to people trying to hash this out with sardonic one liners. I'm sorry my attempts to have a discussion are offending you. Perhaps you just shouldn't post.
    Religion isn't the absence of reason. It's merely the presence of faith.
    Heroes of the Storm : all day erryday

  7. #107
    There's nothing wrong with an ingame store. I would gladly pay for increased experience to help with levelling, or additional storage for my characters. As long as it remains these kinds of cosmetic or quality of life things (like experience boosts to help with levelling) I dont mind at all. It's a really nice option to have.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by freezion View Post
    i don't get it, it's a subscription based game, i am already paid for the cd's and paying a subscription fee just so they can pay their salaries and make new content, so why do they have to make a cash shop exactly? it works in games with the freemium model, but it's just obnoxious when it's done to a game i'm already paying for.

    paying a subscription to the gym, and then being asked pay ekstra for using the machines and tools with the reasoning that you can train all of your muscles without the machines.
    That analogy is false.

    This situation would be like, getting a gym membership, which allows you access to the standard equipement, but if you want to drop some more money he's some equipment that's been redesigned for luxury(You can think up whatevr you want that would fall under luxury, it doesn't really matter)

    You can still work out, you just can't work out on the fancy looking machine. Yes, both machines are identical with the exception of aesthetics.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevvy88 View Post
    The most illumination you seem to offer is conservative buzzwords (over-entitled) and "YOU'RE AN IDIOT" type responses, so, I suppose I'll keep on not understanding it right with all my pleb friends who don't live in Visa Ville of Chase Bank, USA.

    You are a master of debate. If you don't have a problem with it because you just don't care that's fine, but don't respond to people trying to hash this out with sardonic one liners. I'm sorry my attempts to have a discussion are offending you. Perhaps you just shouldn't post.
    I'm guessing you aren't familiar with the term irony. We'll ignore that for now. I gave you a sardonic one liner, because it's clear you have no concept of what you're talking about. Sure I could respond, but you'd refute it with your asinine logic anyway, so you tell me, what's the point?

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Yobtar View Post
    As a consumer I know the difference between essential and optional. I would have a problem if they increased the monthly cost of WoW or increase the box cost of an expansion but when they are sell cosmetic items, I don't mind.
    Many things in game are optional; raids, battle grounds, dungeons, collecting mounts, daily quests, collecting transmog gear; all optional. Blizzard had the option to add these helms as an in game reward thus increasing the value you and I, as customers, receive from the monthly fee instead they choose to charge extra from them why do you defend them for doing so? It is natural for a consumer to want more value for their money yet you are arguing that it is right for a business to charge extra for its services and that people that disagree with it are wrong, why?

  10. #110
    I started in Wrath, so I wasn't around for Vanilla and Burning Crusade. Has Blizzard ever raised the cost of its subscription? To my recollection, I don't think it has.

    What would you prefer, paying more every month, or letting the "lets pay money for digital pixels" set off-set potential rising costs?
    The Devil Wears Transmog
    World of Warcraft Fashion for the Discerning Adventurer

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Allarius View Post
    Pray tell what they're doing MORALLY wrong? Adding an optional service is morally wrong now?
    Fee to Play game design focuses around these things NOT being optional. Pets & Transmog items are one thing, but those won't generate the kind of money they want.

    With an item like XP potions, or Justice/Honor/Conquest/Valor potions, or even extra roll tokens... they aren't just optional, the game's balance is re-designed around the expectation that players ARE paying for these items. Meaning that if you want to play the game 'in its current state', its NOT optional to purchase these luxuries. It *IS* optional to play the game in a handicapped state, and level more slowly, etc.

    I reserve the right to be completely wrong about this, but I seriously expect that in two years we will have seen the xp bonus from RAF, heirlooms, guilds, and rested being phased out due to "popular demand"... because these mechanics directly conflict with the economics of the cash shop.

    The scariest thing though, is that they are considering 'selling gear'. Lesser charms = Bonus rolls = GEAR!.

    But everyone will say 'oh, lesser charms are easy to get, it only takes an hour or so...'

    again... thats NOW. and even in today's system, there's only so many alts you can get tokens for before you reach your limits. Buying extra rolls from the cash shop is just 'so much easier' then actually playing the game on all of them. You think Blizzard would be giving away the double rep rate items at revered for GOLD if they can charge cash ? yeah. ponder that for a few.

    If the subscription rate is lifted, I might start to swallow this pill.... *BUT* they have specifically said they have no plans to lift the subscription fee, and instead offer this as an additional revenue stream. So... yeah.

    I started in Wrath, so I wasn't around for Vanilla and Burning Crusade. Has Blizzard ever raised the cost of its subscription? To my recollection, I don't think it has.
    I started in BC. Has Blizzard ever lowered its subscription ? Has there ever been an MMO with a higher subscription fee ? To my recollection, I don't think there has.
    Last edited by Halicia; 2013-08-01 at 07:51 PM.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Many things in game are optional; raids, battle grounds, dungeons, collecting mounts, daily quests, collecting transmog gear; all optional. Blizzard had the option to add these helms as an in game reward thus increasing the value you and I, as customers, receive from the monthly fee instead they choose to charge extra from them why do you defend them for doing so? It is natural for a consumer to want more value for their money yet you are arguing that it is right for a business to charge extra for its services and that people that disagree with it are wrong, why?
    "It's optional, but I feel that I must have it, so I just be able to get everything"

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    the lack of cooperation between these teams is the reason why we have so much bs in the game. if teams like that worked in any real company, like a car company, everyone would get some serious lecture.
    Which kind of industry needed a bail out recently?

  14. #114
    Dreadlord Santoryu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Overpriced? You think $15 bucks is overpriced? Many hundreds of thousands of the helmets have been sold.
    Which speaks volumes as to how sycophantic people are

  15. #115
    Who would like paying someone to make something and that fee goes towards time making it and all the materials, and then get charged again for the finished product?
    We are being charged again for items we already paid for them to make with our subs.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Allarius View Post
    That analogy is false.

    This situation would be like, getting a gym membership, which allows you access to the standard equipement, but if you want to drop some more money he's some equipment that's been redesigned for luxury(You can think up whatevr you want that would fall under luxury, it doesn't really matter)

    You can still work out, you just can't work out on the fancy looking machine. Yes, both machines are identical with the exception of aesthetics.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm guessing you aren't familiar with the term irony. We'll ignore that for now. I gave you a sardonic one liner, because it's clear you have no concept of what you're talking about. Sure I could respond, but you'd refute it with your asinine logic anyway, so you tell me, what's the point?
    Maybe you should work on your literary devices. My "asinine" logic. Again, I'm attempting to have a discussion, all you have done is insult me. Afraid to go toe to toe? Probably. Who the fuck gets refuted by "asinine" logic? Someone who has never taken a course in logic? So if my logic is so asinine, how is it that I would refute you? If it was asinine, wouldn't that mean that I COULDN'T refute you? Since you won't engage me in debate, and just insist that I would refute you, I'm going to assume that by asinine you meant "superior".

    It's alright. I'm out of here, Daddy Warbucks.
    Religion isn't the absence of reason. It's merely the presence of faith.
    Heroes of the Storm : all day erryday

  17. #117
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Allarius View Post
    That analogy is false.

    This situation would be like, getting a gym membership, which allows you access to the standard equipement, but if you want to drop some more money he's some equipment that's been redesigned for luxury(You can think up whatevr you want that would fall under luxury, it doesn't really matter)

    You can still work out, you just can't work out on the fancy looking machine. Yes, both machines are identical with the exception of aesthetics.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm guessing you aren't familiar with the term irony. We'll ignore that for now. I gave you a sardonic one liner, because it's clear you have no concept of what you're talking about. Sure I could respond, but you'd refute it with your asinine logic anyway, so you tell me, what's the point?
    The analogy is valid, because aesthetics are intrinsically important in video games, an RPG, and even more so in an MMO - NOT an extra, like "fancy looking machines" in a gym.

  18. #118
    Deleted
    I think it's a weird thing to add to be honest..

    Getting a new look for real money.
    Getting an xp-boost for real-money.
    and making new content available for all players.

    These tags can you apply to 2 games.. League of Legends and WoW, only one is a f2p-game, and in one I invested more than 300,-(and I'm the lower half of the population I think) and I'm still feeling like i'm a second-class customer.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolkien View Post
    The analogy is valid, because aesthetics are intrinsically important in video games, an RPG, and even more so in an MMO - NOT an extra, like "fancy looking machines" in a gym.
    Whether aesthetics are important enough is irrelevant. The analogy is still wrong.

  20. #120
    Dreadlord Santoryu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevvy88 View Post
    Keeping with our helms discussion, you don't think it's dubious that a huge part of this game is getting cool gear and so they take some cool gear, albeit statless gear, and stick a price tag on it?

    What would you guess more players care about these days: Looking cool, or getting +10 more agility on some pants? Surely players care about BOTH, but which one do you feel most players care about MORE.

    Given how well received x-mogging was, and how x-mogging has become pretty much an entire way to play the game, I'd say more people care about looking cool. So, given x-mogs popularity as a feature, do you not think it's gross that now some of the x-mog gear has a price tag on it?

    As far as the XP potions... they have created this huge gap between 1-90 mostly out of necessity I suppose because of WoW's power progression model, but they themselves admit that 99% of the content they create is for high level players only. They admit that it is a problem for new players just coming into the game, yet they do nothing to really address the gap, still have a fairly high entry cost to just buy all the games, and on top of it, stick some XP potions in the shop for a price tag.

    Their solution to a problem they have admitted to at least inadvertently created is to tax us for the privilege to bypass said problem?

    Am I understand this right?
    EXACTLY! I can not for the LOVE OF GOD understand how people do not SEE that if 655876 people have the SAME ITEM AS you, that item is no longer of any value. Jeez, such a simple concept yet so hard for some to grasp.

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