Some GC tweets on mages

[Deleted]

I just reckon arcane will be a better spec for the two fights we tested today. Obviously a lot can change and ones spec choice will 100% be based on trinkets. (arcane wrath of darkspear 2 stronk)

[Magemaer]

But if you take what he says, after 50% crit, crit scaling slows down....Which means if all fire has is mastery, it isn't going to scale ungodly well like we had expected, where as arcane WILL continue to scale consistently well. I think fire may see a backlash into siege/heroic siege gear that people didn't see coming. And arcane will take this time to pull ahead with it's consistent scaling.

Your desire to see Arcane as the top spec is very ill-conceived.
I'm sorry Vynestra, i also like Arcane, but it'll lose to Fire in 9 out of 10 raid situations. Arcane has multidot, aoe and target switch; Fire has mobility and cleave (with a 1.5min huge cleave burst). Fire wins for raid bosses.

[Vynestra]

Your desire to see Arcane as the top spec is very ill-conceived.
I'm sorry Vynestra, i also like Arcane, but it'll lose to Fire in 9 out of 10 raid situations. Arcane has multidot, aoe and target switch; Fire has mobility and cleave (with a 1.5min huge cleave burst). Fire wins for raid bosses.

lol? I don't think this'll be the case, still have to see. But I don't think it will. 9/10? maybe 5/10, and arcane wins the other 5. That's how it is in tot anyway.

[mrgreenthump]

lol? I don't think this'll be the case, still have to see. But I don't think it will. 9/10? maybe 5/10, and arcane wins the other 5. That's how it is in tot anyway.

It's funny though that you are both sort of right with your arguments.. In the end it really depends on your raid setup if you need the ST damage to reach the enrage or other damage to clear the encounter.. For progression on the very top, it has lately been mostly the first option, while for everyone else it's the later one. Arcane is really great now(5.4) with most encounter types, exept heave movement still, due to AB and AM both being non-movement. It ain't "that" much behind fire on ST either to call it a lackluster, but it certainly seems to be behind for a bit. But for those fights that you truly need to AoE, Multidot, Target switch or some other stuff that fire is just horrid at, arcane will be the spec to go for.. Unless ST on the boss is highly valued as well.


In short, both are good.. they have their uses, but for the very top, fire will still prolly be a bit more used, and everybody follows the "best" players. Though can see arcane working just as good for top raiders if there ain't any to light movement on the fight. Or if it's multidot bonanza or something else that you don't loose on movement.

[Vynestra]

It's funny though that you are both sort of right with your arguments.. In the end it really depends on your raid setup if you need the ST damage to reach the enrage or other damage to clear the encounter.. For progression on the very top, it has lately been mostly the first option, while for everyone else it's the later one. Arcane is really great now(5.4) with most encounter types, exept heave movement still, due to AB and AM both being non-movement. It ain't "that" much behind fire on ST either to call it a lackluster, but it certainly seems to be behind for a bit. But for those fights that you truly need to AoE, Multidot, Target switch or some other stuff that fire is just horrid at, arcane will be the spec to go for.. Unless ST on the boss is highly valued as well.


In short, both are good.. they have their uses, but for the very top, fire will still prolly be a bit more used, and everybody follows the "best" players. Though can see arcane working just as good for top raiders if there ain't any to light movement on the fight. Or if it's multidot bonanza or something else that you don't loose on movement.

Arcane pulls ahead ST if you can stand still constantly, it's moving that lets fire pull ahead slightly, but nuking...arcane will do well. Fire has to get the ignites roll, crits going. I just start loading the glass cannon with cannon balls and blow the fuck out of the boss. And of course the multi-dotting. I find on a fight like H council, our fire mage just can't get the st dps out to blow the add up, I think if you save pyro's/heating up yes, but it doesn't always align..However I just target and blow it up lol.

Fire does well, and will continue to do well. But I think arcane can do just as well, it's just top mages are fire, so people follow the ringleader per usual, which is smart because they're that spec for a reason.

But I'm excited for 5.4 for many reasons, excited for arcane with new RoP, tier set bonuses and trinkets. And the cloak of course =P. Also to have some serious competition with our fire mage, as we do now.

[villie]

Question for me is, if they nerf the damage, which spells will it come from?

From a purely selfish (PVP) point of view i really really hope they look at combust and ignite before going near pyro, as that will be a massive kick in the balls to fire pvp, which in 5.4 due to the icicles shenanigans going on with frost, fire will be the competitive spec.

If pyro does get too hard hit tho, fires burst (which is what the spec revolves around i.e gibbing a target at around 75% hp in a deep with cds) will pretty much be gutted and with our sustained damage being one of the worst in game due to ignite dispells, combustion triple dipping from resil and low scorch coefficient i cant see a very bright future for mages at high ratings at all

[Deleted]

If you look closely at citizen video, you can see that it's the burst pull that are out of control.

The actually working on reducing proc alignment at pull.
So a logical change could be with Combustion, maybe reducing ignite's contribution.

[mrgreenthump]

If you look closely at citizen video, you can see that it's the burst pull that are out of control.

The actually working on reducing proc alignment at pull.
So a logical change could be with Combustion, maybe reducing ignite's contribution.

Not having 2 10k int procs on pull that basicly double your int and gives a lot of crit, is already a quite sizable nerf to combustion on pulls..

[Deleted]

my question is :
When comparing damage, did you to do it from Fire or from Arcane or Frost.

and keep in mind that Blizzard haven't began damage's balancing ...

[Deleted]

I get that you like Arcane Vynestra, but tweeting GC effectively asking him to nerf Fire, one of your class specs that thousands of others enjoy playing is... well... I dunno what to say lol. Did you see any Fire Mages tweeting him during 5.1 to nerf Arcane so they could play Fire? To be a decent player, you should be able to play your class regardless of spec, yes if you prefer one that's fine, but you seriously need to learn to adapt and understand the play styles of all your classes specs, not go around constantly complaining, moaning, bashing and throwing your toys out of the pram at the fact that another spec is ahead. I literally am finding it difficult to read these forums lately as no matter what thread I go into, you have a post in there basically bitching about not being able to play Arcane.

Play the class you love playing if that's what you want and that's what your guild is okay with, but please, for the love of god, can you stop the whining on here about Arcane Vs Fire!

[Grondath]

While fire might be really good against packs of 3-5 mobs with combustion spreading, it's pretty much equal to other specs/classes in single target with a bit of movement and dodging ground effects etc.

Other classes have bladestorm type abilities which are really good against large packs of adds, everything has it's own specific niche so I don't think a major nerf is required at this point, just something to curb the scaling a bit (CM nerf?)

IMO :P

[Delath]

To be a decent player, you should be able to play your class regardless of spec, yes if you prefer one that's fine, but you seriously need to learn to adapt and understand the play styles of all your classes specs

I think the main problem is that the gemming is entirely reversed for fire and arcane, otherwise people wouldn't have such a major issue with changing a bit when necessary.

[Vouxility]

First of all:

I get that you like Arcane Vynestra, but tweeting GC effectively asking him to nerf Fire, one of your class specs that thousands of others enjoy playing is... well... I dunno what to say lol. Did you see any Fire Mages tweeting him during 5.1 to nerf Arcane so they could play Fire? To be a decent player, you should be able to play your class regardless of spec, yes if you prefer one that's fine, but you seriously need to learn to adapt and understand the play styles of all your classes specs, not go around constantly complaining, moaning, bashing and throwing your toys out of the pram at the fact that another spec is ahead. I literally am finding it difficult to read these forums lately as no matter what thread I go into, you have a post in there basically bitching about not being able to play Arcane.

Play the class you love playing if that's what you want and that's what your guild is okay with, but please, for the love of god, can you stop the whining on here about Arcane Vs Fire!

THIS!

@Grondath
didnt think they nerf CM again..its down and up and back, maybe Pyro nerf or something...

[Deleted]

I think the main problem is that the gemming is entirely reversed for fire and arcane, otherwise people wouldn't have such a major issue with changing a bit when necessary.

Yeah, and I get that is an issue with spec switching, you pretty much need 3 sets of gear to be really at the top level for each spec but that's not the issue with the OP, he just loves one spec and hates another, stats priority doesn't really come into his arguments.

I also can't see a CM nerf incoming, I'd say the damage might be adjusted elsewhere but to Grondaths point, I'm not sure fire will scale out of control like some think, we have a good niche with 3-5 targets and with the Amp trinket changes, out ST is much more in-line with other classes/specs now but may still need a bit of a nerf, we'll see soon what they'll do I'm sure

[Grondath]

Yeah i'm intrigued to see what Blizzard will do tbh! A small pyro nerf might be just the ticket as Vouxility says.

[Akraen]

These trinkets don't need to exist like this. It's causing these scaling issues in all sorts of places.

Does anyone else kind of wish we didn't have so much DPS relegated to 2 item slots?

I'm not sure I understand the goal of developers to have trinkets matter more than abilities themselves. And further, what's it feel like to be someone who can't get those trinkets? Personally I'm irritated that my guild has been farming Heroic Megaera for ages and I still have a normal mode (though upgraded) BotH. It's not that I even care about the item, it's knowing how crucial it is to numbers.

Bloody annoying game design.

[gallamann]

These trinkets don't need to exist like this. It's causing these scaling issues in all sorts of places.

Does anyone else kind of wish we didn't have so much DPS relegated to 2 item slots?

I'm not sure the goal of developers to have trinkets matter more than abilities themselves. And further, what's it feel like to be someone who can't get those trinkets? Personally I'm irritated that my guild has been farming Heroic Megaera for ages and I still have a normal mode (though upgraded) BotH. It's not that I even care about the item, it's knowing how crucial it is to numbers.

Bloody annoying game design.

I would second this, so much of your DPS hinges on weapon (offhand) and trinkets. Now I could get on board with this philosophy if those trinkets had a higher drop rate and were on first couple of bosses. I do think there is a ray of hope in that Blizzard is making Legendary Cloak available before progression is done. Would like to see same treatment put to tier items and trinkets.

[awildpidgeyappears]

Well really it's just weapon and trinkets. An offhand has about the same ilevel budget as necks, rings, cloaks (not including the legendary). It's the spell power on the MH that makes the difference.

[TacTican]

These trinkets don't need to exist like this. It's causing these scaling issues in all sorts of places.

Does anyone else kind of wish we didn't have so much DPS relegated to 2 item slots?

I'm not sure I understand the goal of developers to have trinkets matter more than abilities themselves. And further, what's it feel like to be someone who can't get those trinkets? Personally I'm irritated that my guild has been farming Heroic Megaera for ages and I still have a normal mode (though upgraded) BotH. It's not that I even care about the item, it's knowing how crucial it is to numbers.

Bloody annoying game design.

This. So damn much. Our raid has been in ToT since 5.2 came out, slowly and gamely struggling through the raid at a plodding pace, and we have not seen a single spell DPS trinket drop. EVER. Part of me wants to curl up and cry when, week after week after week after week, I'm still stuck with an LFR Woosh and the Shado-Pan valor trinket. Mogu Runes? Gold, always gold. Streak protection does not exist for me.

[Vynestra]

Yeah, and I get that is an issue with spec switching, you pretty much need 3 sets of gear to be really at the top level for each spec but that's not the issue with the OP, he just loves one spec and hates another, stats priority doesn't really come into his arguments.

I also can't see a CM nerf incoming, I'd say the damage might be adjusted elsewhere but to Grondaths point, I'm not sure fire will scale out of control like some think, we have a good niche with 3-5 targets and with the Amp trinket changes, out ST is much more in-line with other classes/specs now but may still need a bit of a nerf, we'll see soon what they'll do I'm sure

The only reason I haven't mentioned it, because it isn't an option. I would be fine if all 3 specs had the same stat priorities, and switch when needed. I really was hoping to switch between arcane and frost next tier but it's not viable. I am willing to switch for fights if I HAD 3 sets of gear, but it's just not possible. I barely have the dkp for one set of gear, let alone 3. That is why I yearn for arcane to be as viable as fire, so we don't need to start carrying around different sets of gear. I don't particularly like fires playstyle, however it doesn't mean if it was viable in arcane gear I wouldn't play it on fights that it does way better on (durumu for example). The only reason I tweeted GC is because I didn't want, what people keep telling me is that fire just is RIDICULOUSLY overpowered and strong at higher ilvls, I don't want to be forced fire, it's obvious. We don't know where the specs stand yet, but I didn't want to gear up for arcane, and then be shit on by lolfiremage dps because arcane isn't viable.

I play this game to have fun, fire just isn't fun for me, however raiding is. I don't think it should be a necessity to HAVE to play one spec, or that one spec is insanely overpowered. Blizzard has made it a point to try and balance all three specs in a class if they're all dps if possible. When picking a mage, you assume blizzard which they have stated that is their goal, is going to let you decide what you want to raid with, and still progress with. I have no problem with where arcane/fire are on live. I have good dps fights with our fire mage, who is a slightly higher ilvl.

Everyones turning me into this villain that wants fire unplayable -- No, I want fire on arcanes level, and I want frost on arcanes and fires level, so mages are free to choose what they want, not have to pick one insanely overpowered spec to progress.