Do warlocks prevent demon hunters from ever being added as a class?

[Polyamorous]

omg you gotta stop with the demon hunter threads.

it's a bad idea, doesn't fit with anything in game, is a diablo class .... and most importantly, has already been declined as an idea by the wow devs.
At best, maybe one day you can get demon hunter as a stance for a hunter.

Now bury the idea plz.

Demon hunters were present in warcraft games and lore before Diablo 3 was even announced.

[Harsesis]

If anything hunters are the problem here. Two Bow/Gun classes have the potential to be too similar to each other.

[PickleballAce]

That's a fourth and fifth spec right there, 2/3 of a new class. Third spec could be caster, or rip off Diablo 3 Demon Hunters and go the ranged weapon route. Why tie so much potential down into an existing class with a ton of nice lore all its own?

I don't think the problem is finding roles for them, I think the problem is the overlap they have with Warlocks that makes it easier for them to be a branch off the Warlock class rather than a separate class with a separate identity.

Demon Form is a really cool, iconic, and integral ability for Demonology Warlocks -- probably THE defining ability even more than the Felguard. It's been a major part of our toolkit for five years. It's a lot less cool when every Tom, Dick, and Harry can turn into a Demon. But the problem is that we all have a different threshold for what accounts for homogenization. I don't find the idea of Warlocks, Shaman and Mages having fire attacks to be that offensive, but I would find the idea of another animal shapeshifter, or a non-Death Knight Necromancer to be a little too close for comfort toward existing classes. Or another class with Demon minions or one that bonds with animals.

It's pretty clear from Demon Hunters in game that they share a lot in common with Warlocks (and Rogues) from the abilities they use. Either you're ripping flavor off existing classes or you're making up new stuff entirely, which presents its own problem when trying to preserve the feel of Warcraft Demon Hunters.

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If anything hunters are the problem here. Two Bow/Gun classes have the potential to be too similar to each other.

Warcraft DH and Diablo DH don't have a lot in common other than the name or their goals, I suppose. They operate quite differently mechanically. Warcraft DH iconic weapons aren't ranged ones, but glaives akin to what drop off Illidan.

[Viradiance]

God, I hope so. Last thing we need is for Demon Hunters to become as ruined as Death Knights were when kiddies mass rolled them because they were "Badass" and brought the class to as questionable a state as Hunters.

[Shodan30]

I don't see why people think the two are exclusive. Demon hunters wouldnt have demon pets. Warlocks enslave demons to gain power, demon hunters hunt and kill demons. If anything the way i picture demon hunters means that hunters would prevent demon hunters from ever being a class because they essentially would be a hunter with some more demon focused or holy spells/attacks.

The off-mentioned tinker class would likely be such a jack-of-all trades class that would borrow so heavily from every other class that it would almost have to be either massively comparmentalized in its skills (Each specialization locks out a bunch of the other specs abilities) or nerfed in every aspect so that it wouldnt be the superior choice of tank/healer/dps in any respect because then nobody would play whichever class it was pushing out.

[Jessicka]

If anything hunters are the problem here. Two Bow/Gun classes have the potential to be too similar to each other.

What? Like two melee wielders or two casters you mean?

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I don't think the problem is finding roles for them, I think the problem is the overlap they have with Warlocks that makes it easier for them to be a branch off the Warlock class rather than a separate class with a separate identity.

Demon Form is a really cool, iconic, and integral ability for Demonology Warlocks -- probably THE defining ability even more than the Felguard. It's been a major part of our toolkit for five years. It's a lot less cool when every Tom, Dick, and Harry can turn into a Demon. But the problem is that we all have a different threshold for what accounts for homogenization. I don't find the idea of Warlocks, Shaman and Mages having fire attacks to be that offensive, but I would find the idea of another animal shapeshifter, or a non-Death Knight Necromancer to be a little too close for comfort toward existing classes. Or another class with Demon minions or one that bonds with animals.

It's pretty clear from Demon Hunters in game that they share a lot in common with Warlocks (and Rogues) from the abilities they use. Either you're ripping flavor off existing classes or you're making up new stuff entirely, which presents its own problem when trying to preserve the feel of Warcraft Demon Hunters.

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Warcraft DH and Diablo DH don't have a lot in common other than the name or their goals, I suppose. They operate quite differently mechanically. Warcraft DH iconic weapons aren't ranged ones, but glaives akin to what drop off Illidan.

One ability is overlap now? Nevermind the melee and ranged difference, amongst others.

I get losing/ sharing Meta would take some gloss if carbon copied, but it needn't be a duplicate.

[Deleted]

I think so, the glyph for Dark Apotheosis is named "Glyph of Demon Hunting" which in my opinion just cancels out the potential. I mean Metamorphosis (the key demon hunter skill from WC3?) is a warlock ability and Illidan's (the most iconic Demon Hunter) half-metamorphosised (if this is a word) form is now a warlock skill that Kanrethad Ebonlocke mastered, aka Dark Apotheosis.

[FurtyIRL]

I don't think they do alone, but a few other classes plus warlocks kind of embody all that demon hunters were in warcraft.

[Hellhowl]

Yes. I love Demon Hunters but would hate to see them as a class. If anything just add it as a fourth spec to warlocks and make it melee dps. Demon Hunter melee dps for warlocks, Beast Lord melee dps for hunters, Ranger ranged dps for Rogue and maybe a melee dps spec for mages to give pures a fourth spec while still keeping them pure. no reason to add a class that is so far from unique that people mistake it for a different class.

[Deleted]

1. It's time to add another Caster Class i would say, Dk is melee only with Monk having 2/3 melee speccs and 1 healer, not Caster DPS.

2. It's the same as the High Elf issue = There are not enough left to make up a playable Race/Class, it would screw over Lore too much

Now one could argue that with the possible return of the Legion people will try to become a DH but keep that in mind: Who should train them?

and the other issue is this: The Skills, many Demon Hunter skills are split up among other Classes, Removing them or simply Giving DH copies of those skills will only create hate between the playerbase, Imagine a Rogue losing Evasion because they want to give it a DH, you think they would accept that? Just looking at the WC 3 skills

Evasion > Rogue

Mana Burn > Priests had this, removed for a reason.

Immolation > Warlocks

Metamorphosis > Warlocks

[announced]

just make them like d3 demon hunters.. using hatred resource instead of runes/ demonic power.. whatever.. it really doesnt matter if they seem similar.. eventually you start running out of ways to make new skills.

[Tyrael the Impatient]

There is a topic about this already with many opinions that you can read about.

[Jtree]

There is a topic about this already with many opinions that you can read about.

A thread I have posted in many times. I made this thread in this forum because I specifically wanted the opinions of people who play warlocks.

I am, of course, all for a DH class, and don't feel that there's too much overlap, despite demo having metamorphosis.

[Deleted]

Thinking about DHs, wasn't Illidan's Metamorphosis a permenant thing in lore once he picked the skull of Gul'Dan? If they could add demonic features to the model permenantly, like at character creation, it wouldn't overlap much with Warlock meta, and be a huge drive for Demon Hunters (just like DKs had rotted skin, and in a sense they've already tested what wings and horns look like with DA and <500 Fury for Demonology)

[Orloth]

Thinking about DHs, wasn't Illidan's Metamorphosis a permenant thing in lore once he picked the skull of Gul'Dan? If they could add demonic features to the model permenantly, like at character creation, it wouldn't overlap much with Warlock meta, and be a huge drive for Demon Hunters (just like DKs had rotted skin, and in a sense they've already tested what wings and horns look like with DA and <500 Fury for Demonology)

Sort of, yes, he gained permanent demonic features from the Skull of Gul'dan. In the campaign level he gained the permanent Metamorphosis effect, but later in the expansion campaigns he had a new model with the demonic features and could still cast meta to go into the old shadowy demonic form. This remained consistent for the encounter in BC, where in part of the fight he would cycle through a normal and a metamorphed phase. (If you are willing to wait after the Flames of Azzinoth phase, you should be able to see it. These days he just dies too fast for him to go into it normally.)

Illidan's transformation is unique to him and not a feature of being a Demon Hunter. However, in the RPG manual, the Demon Hunter prestige class did come with permanent demonic features as the player gained levels in the class. The RPG isn't considered canon, but it is worth noting.

[Hellfury]

I just voted Yes cause why not.

Iam pretty sure warlocks were the cause DK's didnt saw the daylight Deadcoil! bro, ohh wait Iam wrong DKs are out.

Is Demon Hunter a hunter that hunts demons, or a Demon that is a Hunter? Cause seriously I never knew

[cityguy193]

4rth Spec for warlocks
Desummon pet. Can Dual Equip Swords and Axes.
???
Profit

[Deleted]

Is Demon Hunter a hunter that hunts demons, or a Demon that is a Hunter? Cause seriously I never knew

In Warcraft lore (not too sure about Diablo but seperate franchises) it's someone who swears to defend against demons by actively fighting against the Legion and Undead while taking the Demons' powers as their own, embuing their own bodies with Demons' souls and using the Legion's powers against them. A little overlap with what WoW warlocks became (WC3 warlocks were just "evil/mad summoners who used chaotic magic and demons), such as using powers against the enemy, but themactically, Warlocks seek power for themselves, Demon Hunters will fight demons even if it means sacrificing themselves (like Bolvar's mindset when he put on the crown).

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4rth Spec for warlocks
Desummon pet. Can Dual Equip Swords and Axes.
???
Profit

1. Warlocks get a 4th spec, DKs, Hunters, Mages, Monks, Priests, Paladins, Rogues, Shaman and Warriors ask "HEY, WHY NOT US?!". If they get it that means an additonal 14 or so specs to balance...

2. So turn a spellcaster who uses demons into.... A dual wielding sword/axe character.... I fail to see the connection between those two. Why not make a dual-wielding sword/axe class instead of latch it onto a spellcasting demon class and take away their spells and demons.

3. If making changes to the game were as easy as a South Park meme, I'm sure GC and fellow Devs would have a lot less tears to consume to keep their immortal essence immune to the Pantheon of Xarnfak's Solar Extrapolator..... Or, you know, a lot less hassle with testing and opinions.

[Orloth]

but themactically, Warlocks seek power for themselves, Demon Hunters will fight demons even if it means sacrificing themselves (like Bolvar's mindset when he put on the crown).

This is attributing motives to individual characters, which is a dangerous thing. Illidan sought power. He could have simply destroyed the Skull of Gul'dan, but instead decided to consume its power. His actions have similar tendencies in the Well of Eternity trilogy. There is a reason he is called the Betrayer. He pulled a triple cross (betraying the allied forces to get in good with the Highborne and the Legion gained him a gift of power directly from Sargeras, betraying the Legion by warping the spell used to summon Sargeras, and then betraying his people again by creating the first Moonwell from the remains of the Well of Eternity) to gain or keep personal power. The idea that Demon Hunters are morally superior to warlocks is, in my opinion, hysterical. There can be bad Demon Hunters and good Warlocks.

1. Warlocks get a 4th spec, DKs, Hunters, Mages, Monks, Priests, Paladins, Rogues, Shaman and Warriors ask "HEY, WHY NOT US?!". If they get it that means an additonal 14 or so specs to balance...

Ok. Let them. There are threads on hypothetical options for this, and GC has stated that it would take about as much work as adding an additional class.

2. So turn a spellcaster who uses demons into.... A dual wielding sword/axe character.... I fail to see the connection between those two. Why not make a dual-wielding sword/axe class instead of latch it onto a spellcasting demon class and take away their spells and demons.

Take a look at the Glyph of Demon Hunting. Without looking at numbers (which are horrible at the moment) about the only thing that would need to be replaced there would be Soul Fire. Replace that with Soulstrike or something, and then retune the numbers. If they wanted to get fancy they could do plenty of other things, like replacing the Wild Imps mechanic, giving us dual wielding and a melee attack based on Spellpower, and smoothing the transition from Meta form to Apotheosis and back, but those would just be bonuses in my opinion. The base is already there.

3. If making changes to the game were as easy as a South Park meme, I'm sure GC and fellow Devs would have a lot less tears to consume to keep their immortal essence immune to the Pantheon of Xarnfak's Solar Extrapolator..... Or, you know, a lot less hassle with testing and opinions.

Agreed. They are not not doing it because they don't want Demon Hunters. They are not doing it because their time is better spent elsewhere.

[checking facts]

Take a look at the Glyph of Demon Hunting. Without looking at numbers (which are horrible at the moment) about the only thing that would need to be replaced there would be Soul Fire. Replace that with Soulstrike or something, and then retune the numbers.

why? the WC3 demon hunter was ranged in metamorphosis. he attacked using green fire balls, which is what soul fire looks like.