Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Micke]

The latter will probably happen, it wouldn't surprise me at all. That's the issue with their "number pass at the end of the PTR" habit, we won't really test the changes.
Let's pray for an overshot then, so we can at least have fun during the first week before the nerfs :P

GC have been saying multiple times warlock dps is too high so I'm getting the bad feeling they're just going to nerf demo and aff down to destro level and leave destro in its current PTR state. How does destro compare to spriests on the ptr? (a spec they said was balanced)

[Deleted]

GC have been saying multiple times warlock dps is too high so I'm getting the bad feeling they're just going to nerf demo and aff and leave destro in its current PTR state. How does destro compare to spriests? (a spec they said was balanced)

There is no simulation available, and RPPM plus other changes are far too big to just guess around.

[Deleted]

Without the new 4 piece and the ICD immersus trinket destructions damage is a joke on the PTR.

Here are some issues that arent quite so simple to address

Pets dont benefit from Mastery / Kadris totem / Crit bonus from bindings.

Haste scaling officially crapped on with the RPPM change and Rof gone from single target.

Extremely limited skillset on single target.

We dont actually use any 4 part and the 2 part is extremely lackluster so if we get balanced around the new 4 part well then we gna suck for a long time (grantd the 4 part from t15 could find minor use once 5.4 lands)

I do not see how they could get away with not scaling up destruction without rain of fire, my 550 item level warlock sims about 200k dps without it (which is even further nerfed due to RPPM scaling)

[Chrispotter]

obviously destro is a joke on PTR.... blizzard still need to supply the "fix" for removing RoF as single target ember generation.

[Cocobutters]

They are going to compensate it in a later build I'm pretty sure.

[Schirmy]

It could that they're doing such extensive testing and it's actually taking a long time. I don't say that facetiously either.

[Seezer]

So someone explain this to me. Here are the new PPM charts.

Unerring Vision of Lei Shen 0.53 Haste+Budget 0.58 Budget.

The first number is the old PPM and the second number is the new PPM. Isn't the second number an increase in PPM?

[Deleted]

Haste scaling would have brung it over that 0.5 (not sure by how much though), but the removal of the Everlasting affliction glyph and the ability to "bank" time since last proc hurts that playstyle in an extreme way, if you think like this (im sure this is not exact and someone can explain it better)

1.0 PPM would be as it says 1 proc per minute and as you are out of combat for 90 seconds gives the trinket a good chance to proc on the opener.

0.5 PPM would be 1 proc per 2 minutes and as you are out of combat for 90 secons gives the trinket a good chance to proc coming nearer to 30 seconds.

You can find the values in between if you imagine that 0.1 PPM difference is 6 seconds.

You must remember to that Lore told us that the trinkets arent very likely to proc until they are actually at 100%.

Those numbers above only work for the opener.

Ofc the uptime you will see during combat are a LOT lower due to not having your time before combat "banked"

This is my take on the PPM update, it could be wrong so please dont jump on me for that =)

[Micke]

obviously destro is a joke on PTR.... blizzard still need to supply the "fix" for removing RoF as single target ember generation.

A joke compared to what though? Are shadow priests a joke? Maybe they are bringing classes down rather than up for their balancing act?

[Deleted]

So someone explain this to me. Here are the new PPM charts.

Unerring Vision of Lei Shen 0.53 Haste+Budget 0.58 Budget.

The first number is the old PPM and the second number is the new PPM. Isn't the second number an increase in PPM?

when it says: Unerring Vision of Lei Shen 0.53 Haste+Budget 0.58 Budget. , it tells you how you modify the base rpppm. when it says haste+budget, it means that the trinket scales from both haste and budgets where budget means item upgrading etc. so if you have the normal thunderforged UVLS with 37,5% haste and fully upgraded, it will bring your rppm for that trinket to 0,78 on live, with the new modifications, the UVLS will only scale from budget increase aka item upgrade, so on the ptr it will only be at 0,62 rppm.

i always fear when blizz says that we do too much dmg, coz it always mean that we will get overnerfed the first week atleast, and then minor buffs the 2nd week, it has always been the way blizz to do nerfs, hopefully it will take a while to get the balancing in order and it wont be too bad, but in any case, if locks and mages do too much dmg then there are other classes that needs a nerf as well, i just hope that it wont be too much and that we'll still be worth our spot.

[Seezer]

Haste scaling would have brung it over that 0.5 (not sure by how much though), but the removal of the Everlasting affliction glyph and the ability to "bank" time since last proc hurts that playstyle in an extreme way, if you think like this (im sure this is not exact and someone can explain it better)

1.0 PPM would be as it says 1 proc per minute and as you are out of combat for 90 seconds gives the trinket a good chance to proc on the opener.

0.5 PPM would be 1 proc per 2 minutes and as you are out of combat for 90 secons gives the trinket a good chance to proc coming nearer to 30 seconds.

You can find the values in between if you imagine that 0.1 PPM difference is 6 seconds.

You must remember to that Lore told us that the trinkets arent very likely to proc until they are actually at 100%.

Those numbers above only work for the opener.

Ofc the uptime you will see during combat are a LOT lower due to not having your time before combat "banked"

This is my take on the PPM update, it could be wrong so please dont jump on me for that =)

So if it was 0.55 and now it's 0.58 isn't that a buff?

[Count Zero]

So if it was 0.55 and now it's 0.58 isn't that a buff?

They said they would compensate for the lack of haste scaling. I'm not sure how high the RPPM went when you factor in all your haste buffs ... raid haste, bloodlust, legendary meta gem, (afflic) Dark Soul, possibly valor trinket proc ... I imagine it's actually a net nerf.

[Deleted]

They said they would compensate for the lack of haste scaling. I'm not sure how high the RPPM went when you factor in all your haste buffs ... raid haste, bloodlust, legendary meta gem, (afflic) Dark Soul, possibly valor trinket proc ... I imagine it's actually a net nerf.

yeah, and so far i havent seen any compensation, hopefully we'll see that in a future build, so far its a rather massive reduction in the rppm trinket's procrate around 25-30% for me atleast.

[Deleted]

No, because now in reality it's higher than that due to haste scaling. Which is gone on ptr.

Edit: Ops loaded page and 3 more comments appeared.

[Deleted]

So if it was 0.55 and now it's 0.58 isn't that a buff?

This is just a guess as i havent got any hardcore evidence to back this up, but i would assume after bloodlust / haste / raid haste / Dark soul (affi) its a pretty hardcore nerf i would imagine it being down from 0.75 to about 0.58 on heroic TF.

You will especially feel this if you were running the 13.5k haste cap (dont have exact value due to not playing demo)

[Count Zero]

yeah, and so far i havent seen any compensation, hopefully we'll see that in a future build, so far its a rather massive reduction in the rppm trinket's procrate around 25-30% for me atleast.

I wouldn't count on anything more than the slight increase to the base proc rate

[Deleted]

obviously destro is a joke on PTR.... blizzard still need to supply the "fix" for removing RoF as single target ember generation.

The problem is that it isn't that obvious depending of the fights. In single target it is indeed pathetic, but on fights like Galakras I'm still raping everyone with SB/FnB.
The question is : what will they balance us around ?

[Deleted]

It used to scale off haste very simply, just multiply by your haste + 1. So the old 0,53 with a fairly normal haste of 30% would become 0,69. That becomes even higher with haste procs. So no, putting it at 0,58 and no longer scaling off haste is not a buff unless you have less than 3,8% haste... And that includes raid haste buff.

All trinkets are nerfed massively by this. Not only is uptime roughly 30% lower on average, but you also no longer have increased chance to proc during haste buffs, which is likely where you want your procs most. On top of that the pull protection of 90s is nothing. There is not a single trinket that has increased chance to proc on pull. All it does now is allow you to start with 90s banked. To give some perspective: the new trinkets have 0,46 and 0,51 RPPM, which means it takes about 3 minutes before the chance to proc even starts going up. The chance they proc in the first 30 seconds is only roughly 1 in 4.

[Chrispotter]

Im thinking Demo with a very high crit build + the 2 ICD trinkets might be a good set up for 5.4. Seeing as the changes to RPPM trinkets are pretty shit for 5.4

[Apero]

The problem is that it isn't that obvious depending of the fights. In single target it is indeed pathetic, but on fights like Galakras I'm still raping everyone with SB/FnB.
The question is : what will they balance us around ?

Buff Immolate (+ make it instant cast please, and generate slightly more embers) , Incinerate and Conflagrate for more singletarget dmg and nerf the fire and brimstone scaling to make sure we are not op when it comes to aoe.
Btw. with immerseus trinket, sac or sup? I guess sac is the way to go right?