Can the Alliance carry its own storyline?

[Florena]

Can the alliance carry it's own story? Yes, it's just a matter of whether blizz can pull it off.

[Nadiru]

No one is making the argument that if A got screwed B should get screwed. People are merely pointing out that it hasn't always been horde centric and a number of people are sick of hearing the same story over and over again while people skip big chunks of what is/has been part of the Warcraft universe.

BRD/BRS was awesome, huge, told a ton about WoW and was pure dwarf. People relentlessly bitched and moaned that it was big and reading things was annoying so Blizz moved away from that model. You're bitching at Blizz when your beef is with your fellow player base.

Blackrock Spire, the Orc stronghold, was pure dwarf. Is that revisionism or just delusion, there? I honestly can't tell at this point. Lest we forget, all of that "Alliance-centric" classic WoW lore is people killing Dragons and Elementals and Silithid and (rarely) Undead. All of those sound super Alliance-centric to me, I guess. Except they don't. Horde's Onyxia key quest was objectively worse, and they had to suffer through the Barrens, but it's not like Alliance questing in classic wasn't a miserable experience as well. And then TBC hit and Horde got to do all sorts of kickass shit with their character progression, they got to go all Back to Africa in Nagrand, they got to meet the Mag'har and do all the cool ancestry stuff in HFP and Nagrand. Alliance get to see Danath Trollbane, and Khadgar-but-he's-neutral-now,-big-car-ornament-told-him-so.

[Aleksej89]

It is true most of horde's story is implemented in the game, while the alliance story exists in books and "implied" it exists in game.

For example, draenei took control of their entire isles by now and even gilneans got a lot of their homes back (as far as i remember), and now (after 5.4) horde probably loses the entire ashenvale - but NOTHING will be displayed in the game.

But when the horde heavily expands during cataclysm or the post 5.4 event with the new warchief and rebuilt orgrimmar - all of that will be displayed in wow, as GCrawler said.

Also forgot to add how the dwarfs are now united (dark iron and wild hammer and the iron forge ones) - but every dark iron dwarf you meet outside of ironforge is still fully hostile to any dwarf or alliance player, while they should be (at worst) neutral since almost all dark iron dwarfs now live in iron forge - not to mention that there are almost no dark iron dwarfs IN iron forge, despite lore sayings that most of their population is now in iron forge.

Or how most of Stormwind got repaired by now since the starting of Cata (when deathwing attacked Stormwind), but none of it is actually reflected in the game - there are still huge molten lava claw marks of deathwing at the gates of stormwind, while (story wise) nearly all damage done to SW has been repaired (not counting NEW damage done in 5.4).

Or how the high elves and the night elves finally reunited, and night elves not only accepted arcane magic but also allowed high borne to move back into night elf cities - but again, just like with the dwarves, none of this is actually displayed in WoW. There are barely 3 high borne elves in Teldrassil, if even that.

I really can't think of more examples at 6 AM, but it is definitely a fact that Alliance lore is lately just implied and "in the books" - while Horde stories tend to be fully implemented in WoW for all to see.

[Sigmar]

I remember we where going to get a big, epic quest chain involving Varian Wrynn, but Alliance players bitched and moaned until it didn't get added. Then they complain that Blizzard never does anything nice for them. I'd say the Alliance player base is more at fault than Blizzard's writers. You'll never make someone happy if they simply don't possess the capability to be satisfied with any concession you make.

[Jinx16]

I remember we where going to get a big, epic quest chain involving Varian Wrynn, but Alliance players bitched and moaned until it didn't get added. Then they complain that Blizzard never does anything nice for them. I'd say the Alliance player base is more at fault than Blizzard's writers. You'll never make someone happy if they simply don't possess the capability to be satisfied with any concession you make.

That isn't what happened at all. At Blizzcon Metzen told us about the "Trials of the High King" quest line that was supposed to be set against 5.0 content. That never happened. Instead we got a scenario in 5.1 where Varian stood on a beach and told Tyrande to chill out. Blizzard later informed us that this was meant to be one of Varian's trials. Not surprisingly people were underwhelmed and complained.

I totally understand why horde only players want to dismiss Alliance complaints as mere "whining." Blizzard has limited development time and everyone wants more content for themselves. The sad result of that is we cannot almost never have an honest discussion about faction exclusive content.

[Dristereau]

At the moment probably not. There's nothing beyond Boy Wonder Anduin happening that I can see that actually plays a hand. Gnomes are still struggling to take back Gnomeregan (Only been what, nine years now?). Nothing happening at all with the Draenei, and any hopes for Velen making an appearance in 5.3 were apparently scrapped. The Night Elves are really doing anything either. Worgen/Bloodfang Worgen were fighting in Silverpine/Hillsbrad (If you play Horde of course) and they loose and the Stormpike get wiped out of there. The Dwarves political turmoil with Moira has been smoothed over, where they could have made a Sylvanas-eske character, somewhat different to the Alliance usual style. And based on what I'm hearing about 5.4 Varian turns up, and erm, I'm not sure what else.

I suppose the only interesting thing beyond Anduin is Jaina at the moment, given that Dalaran has yet to make an appearance (no idea why it didn't visit Orgrimmar in 5.4). So no, not currently. There's not really anything happening with the Alliance that is really going anywhere or building interest in the faction. For now we just sit back and watch the story from the sideline, and hopefully 6.0 is something where the Alliance actually does something useful/productive, because based on Vol'jin's original 5.3 text they weren't needed there.

[StationaryHawk]

Or how most of Stormwind got repaired by now since the starting of Cata (when deathwing attacked Stormwind), but none of it is actually reflected in the game - there are still huge molten lava claw marks of deathwing at the gates of stormwind, while (story wise) nearly all damage done to SW has been repaired (not counting NEW damage done in 5.4).

Or how the high elves and the night elves finally reunited, and night elves not only accepted arcane magic but also allowed high borne to move back into night elf cities - but again, just like with the dwarves, none of this is actually displayed in WoW. There are barely 3 high borne elves in Teldrassil, if even that.

I really can't think of more examples at 6 AM, but it is definitely a fact that Alliance lore is lately just implied and "in the books" - while Horde stories tend to be fully implemented in WoW for all to see.

6am might be the issue here, because there's quite a few things you've said that are incorrect. Stormwind's front gate has been repaired, there's nothing to suggest that the 5.4 damages to Stormwind are outside of the raid (quite the opposite, in fact), and the high elves did not reunite with the night elves. Highborne and high elves are not the same thing. And since Highborne are essentially night elves, there's no new models to throw in.

[Sigmar]

That isn't what happened at all. At Blizzcon Metzen told us about the "Trials of the High King" quest line that was supposed to be set against 5.0 content. That never happened. Instead we got a scenario in 5.1 where Varian stood on a beach and told Tyrande to chill out. Blizzard later informed us that this was meant to be one of Varian's trials. Not surprisingly people were underwhelmed and complained.

I totally understand why horde only players want to dismiss Alliance complaints as mere "whining." Blizzard has limited development time and everyone wants more content for themselves. The sad result of that is we cannot almost never have an honest discussion about faction exclusive content.

You want to know why it didn't happen? Mass complaining by Alliance players that "it's not what we want!" The scenario happened since the questline was pretty much already finished, but due to overwhelming negative reactions the devs didn't included it as originally intended. This is the problem with Alliance lore. The players have put the writers into a position where they know nothing they do will please them, even complete annihilation of the Horde. Horde bias in MoP is purely the fault of the players on the Alliance side, and with the kind of revisionist history victim complex bullcrap we see now in every thread (Vanilla and Wrath were Horde biased? wat?) this false viewpoint is getting worse and worse, and the writing will only suffer further because of it.

You want to save Alliance lore? The Alliance players need to get their boot off the throat of their own faction's storyline.

[Lastlivingsoul]

The Horde is an unstable powderkeg of Supervillains and Psychos.

The Alliance has been portrayed as a Valorous Safehaven for Righteousness and "Goodness."

If you had to watch a show all about one of these organizations which would it be? Would you be able to guess the ending? I would watch the Bad Guy's show.

That said, I will say that the potential of the Alliance story has been squandered and wasted more times than I can count in Cata. Malfurion's return was a back seat to Thrall's wedding. Alliance starting areas had race humiliating gags (Troggs punting Dwarves and Gnomes,) Nightelves losing every piece of land they step foot into leveling etc. If subscription numbers fall like rocks its because of things like this (gave me a few months of Wow-free time anyway.) Most disappointing was how Malfurion's return was merely a footnote next to Thrall.

Blizzard has honestly re-wrote themselves into a corner where they can only bleed out the half of the fan-base just because they wanted to "spiff" up the starting areas. Seriously I haven't seen a creator muckup/rewrite a Winning Franchise this bad since George Lucas made the Prequels.

They have built up this story this far to its conclusion with Garrosh, there will be QQing any which way. But everything will still only be dressing on the Open wound that is the Cataclysm content. Just try to forget the past until the future gets better.

My two cents.

[Jinx16]

You want to know why it didn't happen? Mass complaining by Alliance players that "it's not what we want!" The scenario happened since the questline was pretty much already finished, but due to overwhelming negative reactions the devs didn't included it as originally intended. This is the problem with Alliance lore. The players have put the writers into a position where they know nothing they do will please them, even complete annihilation of the Horde. Horde bias in MoP is purely the fault of the players on the Alliance side, and with the kind of revisionist history victim complex bullcrap we see now in every thread (Vanilla and Wrath were Horde biased? wat?) this false viewpoint is getting worse and worse, and the writing will only suffer further because of it.

You want to save Alliance lore? The Alliance players need to get their boot off the throat of their own faction's storyline.

I strongly disagree. Most reaction I saw to the High King announcement was highly positive and the critical reaction was due to poor/non-existent implementation. Where is your evidence that the questline was almost finished? Do you have any? I also strongly disagree that players are driving the state of the Alliance storyline. Give the writers some respect man. Blizzard is entitled to write the story anyway they see fit, and fans are free to react as they see fit. That's how video games work. Blizzard are professionals, they can handle some negative feedback without just throwing up their hands and saying "I quit!"

[Gizmoe]

Can they? Yes they very much can.

Can they with the current writting staff? In my opinion. No.

Please people, note, I said In My Opinion.

[Sigmar]

I strongly disagree. Most reaction I saw to the High King announcement was highly positive and the critical reaction was due to poor/non-existent implementation. Where is your evidence that the questline was almost finished? Do you have any? I also strongly disagree that players are driving the state of the Alliance storyline. Give the writers some respect man. Blizzard is entitled to write the story anyway they see fit, and fans are free to react as they see fit. That's how video games work. Blizzard are professionals, they can handle some negative feedback without just throwing up their hands and saying "I quit!"

Whether you disagree or not is irrelevant because the truth is neither convenient nor fair. Until the Alliance players are willing to admit that they are the problem we'll never get anywhere with this entire discussion. A patient has to want to be treated in order for their illness to be cured.

Also don't even try to imply that I play Horde. I can't stand the Horde storyline because it's an awkwardly written, character derailing piece of crap that makes the entire faction look bad. I used to play Horde until the TotC patch in Wrath when I switched over after two expansions (and one base game) of Alliance biased storytelling and I've always had characters on both sides regardless to get the full story. Sure the Alliance had every right to complain during Cataclysm, but everything in MoP is the fault of their own self hating insecurity and inability to be happy with anything.

[Thetruth1400]

The question is does Blizz not think the Alliance can have an interesting enough storyline that doesn't involve the Horde somehow? and if so are they right?

The answer is simple; Blizzard is the reason. It's not that they can't have an interesting story, it's that Blizzard can't write a story for them. Call it bias on the side of the writers, call it lack of skill, but for whatever reason, the writing team isn't capable of righting interesting stories without a Horde focus even though Alliance is rich with lore, open stories, and interesting characters.

Frankly, no they aren't right in what they're doing. They've been, for two expansions now, writing Horde focused stories with Alliance along for the ride or an afterthought. Even their non game related content, mostly their recent books, have been Horde stories, not Alliance once. Sure, Tides of War focused on Jaina, but the story itself was about her conflict with the Horde and setting up the path taken by the Horde for the Garrosh story line which flowed into Mists of Pandaria. The past five books, only one can be considered truly Alliance, that being Wolfheart.

[Jinx16]

Whether you disagree or not is irrelevant because the truth is neither convenient nor fair. Until the Alliance players are willing to admit that they are the problem we'll never get anywhere with this entire discussion. A patient has to want to be treated in order for their illness to be cured.

All right, I'm game. How do you know this is the truth? Your premise, as I understand it, is that Blizzard is capable of writing quality Alliance content, but the choose not to because player feedback won't be positive enough. I think that is a very bold and interesting premise. I'd just like to know your evidence for this truth that I was unaware of. Or, is this simply your opinion?

[Kaleredar]

"Can" the Alliance? Yes.


"Will" Blizzard? No.

[Afrospinach]

stop pointing fingers at Blizzard and start to point at yourselves. Horde seem to be way more easy to develop because most of our players enjoy ANYTHING that is thrown at us. If SoO was the other way around we would see Alliance players in bulk protesting about "needing help from Horde" or how biased Blizzard to let Horde "march into Stormwind" or how they look weak when Horde "let them live".

Horde ENJOY, Alliance COMPLAIN. You will never EVER have fun as we do as long as you keep this EMO attitude of crying so everyone "know" how rejected and misunderstood you "are".

I don't think that is true. I definitely think that Blizz themselves are far more inspired by the horde story line than the alliance, since basically forever.

[Sigmar]

All right, I'm game. How do you know this is the truth? Your premise, as I understand it, is that Blizzard is capable of writing quality Alliance content, but the choose not to because player feedback won't be positive enough. I think that is a very bold and interesting premise. I'd just like to know your evidence for this truth that I was unaware of. Or, is this simply your opinion?

Watching the Alliance neuter ever attempt at story development in MoP with their complaining, maybe? Metzen mentions "Trials of the High King." Players complain, "We don't want a High King! It's just a copy of a Warchief!" So they don't add the questline, keeping the "trials" as low key scenarios. Then Alliance complain that the Alliance has no storyline of it's own in MoP, despite being the ones who got the Alliance side storyline squashed in the first place.

And what about the scenarios themselves? Blizzard wrote Tyrande Whisperwind in "A Little Patience" exactly what she has always been like according to Warcraft lore: Hot headed, bloodthirsty, a warmonger on par with Garrosh who cares not from who the blood flows, soldier or civilian, only that it does. This is apparently "out of character" to the current generation of players who only know Tyrande by the warped post-Warcraft 3 perception of her as a sparkling, beautiful submissive to her Druid boyfriend. That she was willing to admit Varian's more patient approach to warfare was more effective is character development on her part

And what about "Blood in the Snow?" Constant whining and complaining of "what does this have to do with anything?" How about giving some character development to the third member of the Council of Three Hammers who even I'll admit has been doing nothing since early Cataclysm, showing Moira to be a strong and capable leader who does have the best interests of her people at heart even if her fellow council members don't trust her. Oh, and resolving the distrust between her and Varian after the events of Cataclysm.

Now imagine if Alliance players had allowed this questline to come to fruition instead of stopping it midway through development. Not only would the Alliance storyline in MoP be independent from the Horde's, but it would have included far more development of other faction leaders. But nope, Alliance jumped on notions of the "High King" concept being a Warchief analogue, so it didn't happen. And now after two patches worth of non-stop whining the writers seem to have just thrown up their hands and gave up on pleasing the Alliance players. Rightly so, I say. Why try to please the unpleasable, especially of they're just going to blame you again for their faults? No writer should have to put up with that.

[Durandro]

Horde ENJOY, Alliance COMPLAIN. You will never EVER have fun as we do as long as you keep this EMO attitude of crying so everyone "know" how rejected and misunderstood you "are".

You're wrong. The sheer number of Horde players complaining recently has been at an all-time high (at least since Vanilla). Alliance players just want to stop being the punchline to a bad joke.

[Sigmar]

You're wrong. The sheer number of Horde players complaining recently has been at an all-time high (at least since Vanilla). Alliance players just want to stop being the punchline to a bad joke.

I'd like to know wtf alternate universe WoW you're playing? The Horde, even with the poor storyline they have, are always calm and rational. It's the Alliance who throw themselves on their backsides and start kicking and screaming like petulant children.

[Jinx16]

Watching the Alliance neuter ever attempt at story development in MoP with their complaining, maybe?

Please provide a single piece of evidence that Blizzard altered their planned story due to negative player feedback.