Can the Alliance carry its own storyline?

[Harmzuay]

Watching the Alliance neuter ever attempt at story development in MoP with their complaining, maybe? Metzen mentions "Trials of the High King." Players complain, "We don't want a High King! It's just a copy of a Warchief!" So they don't add the questline, keeping the "trials" as low key scenarios. Then Alliance complain that the Alliance has no storyline of it's own in MoP, despite being the ones who got the Alliance side storyline squashed in the first place.

You just made this shit up out of whole cloth. Go back to Blizzcon and watch where Metzen announced the "Trials" and you'll see that everyone was fucking stoked. Everyone got pissed off because what they put in the game was a bunch of bullshit and nothing close to what they said it would be. Deal with that shit, bro.

Edit: I've played Horde since level 66 in BC. Recently just re-rolled a monk as Alliance and I finally understand what the Alliance has been complaining about. All their heroes are neutral and it's fucking ridiculous.

[Sigmar]

Please provide a single piece of evidence that Blizzard altered their planned story due to negative player feedback.

How about the fact it isn't in the game because of the endless threads about it's existence during the build up to MoP? Now respond to my entire previous post or don't bother responding at all.

Edit: You know what? I'm not going to do this. You people don't want to see reason, you don't want to discuss solutions, you don't want to discuss lore. You just want to bitch and complain because it's all you know anymore. So you know what? Frak it. I'm done. Enjoy being miserable, just remember you brought it on yourself. I'm taking the high road and segregating myself from this festival of shitposting.

[Spraxle]

Some good stuff in this thread (that is not sarcasm). I truly think the Alliance could have a very good solo story line. And I'm thinking Blizz might be building towards it some, of course the Horde will be there in some capacity since they have to let everyone see everything.

One thing I will say, the Alliance story is very shallow at present time. I know Sigmar is claiming it's the players fault but I see so many Alliance players saying they want story ingame (ie not in the books or in a comic). It also seems to me that Blizz will do what they want, it is their game, their story, their world. They are the ones choosing to not fill out quests or to dumb down quests. Some people may complain (I will not claim that they do not) but I would be willing to bet Blizz doesn't develop lore to the 3 people who complain that lore is dumb. Blizz obviously CARES about their world and their fiction, but they do a poor job of paying attention to both sides. Obviously we aren't privy to all of the future content coming down the pipe and how it plays out or who is involved. But I strongly disagree that it's "Alliance players fault." For years the Alliance player based has asked for more fiction and usually want it around the NE, Draenei, or Worgen. Not the Humans but the Alliance and Alliance lore is now senonimus with 'Humans.'

[Jinx16]

How about the fact it isn't in the game because of the endless threads about it's existence during the build up to MoP? Now respond to my entire previous post or don't bother responding at all.

I don't believe you understand what evidence means. You are telling us that there was a quest line that was nearly completed but it was abandoned. Is there a blue post about this? Was there a PTR? I question weather this quest line ever got past the idea phase. I suspect that it was downsized/pushed back due to lack of resources and the quest line never really existed. Of course that just my opinion, to claim that as "truth" would just be silly.

As to the rest of your post: You propose Alliance players complain and then we get bad content. It is the same premise you keep making. This idea proposes Blizzard is purposely offering us poor quality content because their feelings are hurt. Frankly, this is ridiculous. Blizzard often tells us how much they appreciate feedback of all kinds. Sometimes they use it, sometimes they don't. The story is in THEIR hands, not the hands of any of the players.

Basically, you put the cart before the horse. Players complain because they got bad content. They didn't get bad content because they complained.

[vawugz]

How about the fact it isn't in the game because of the endless threads about it's existence during the build up to MoP? Now respond to my entire previous post or don't bother responding at all.

Edit: You know what? I'm not going to do this. You people don't want to see reason, you don't want to discuss solutions, you don't want to discuss lore. You just want to bitch and complain because it's all you know anymore. So you know what? Frak it. I'm done. Enjoy being miserable, just remember you brought it on yourself. I'm taking the high road and segregating myself from this festival of shitposting.

If you are going to blindly label an entire faction as children who complain about anything, you never really wanted to discuss it in the first place.

[Nnyco]

<snip>


TADA... Alliance actually have a fucking reason to help !

As well this would also set up an event where they could have us storming in the back entrance while hee horde storm the front gate. When we know there are 2 main entrances why would we all just storm the front?

yea lets take some villages from the horde while they prepare a weapon to anihilate anythin they want

[ScrappyMuffy]

I think the original poster answered their own question. Yes, of course the Alliance could carry their own storyline. There's plenty of existing material for it without even mentioning the untapped potential.

The problem is just that none of it is being addressed for whatever reason. I think the easiest one right off the bat, is to give the Alliance their own Forsaken. No, not the Worgen. The Night Elves. The Night Elves were changed overnight in order to fit into the Alliance for World of Warcraft. Anyone who's played Warcraft III remembers that they were aggressive, feral, and barbaric people (Grom was intimidated/impressed by their savagery). Honestly, they never belonged in the Alliance in the first place, but the fact that they are can easily be used to drive storylines for the Alliance. And it doesn't even have to be another civil war. It could just be used to show that different races of the Alliance have different methods, and sometimes that cascades into other events. The best part about doing this, is that since the Night Elves have had so little development throughout World of Warcraft, you could revert them to their original state without really contradicting anything.

I'm really glad that somebody brought this up. It's easy to forget how different the Night Elves really were from the rest of the alliance pre-WoW. They weren't alliance, at all. They were their own faction, but needed to be consolidated for the sake of alliance vs horde.

There is an incredible amount of lore potential with how exactly this race of 10,000+ year old elves fit into the alliance. They were described as "perfect warriors" by Grom Hellscream. WHY would they be willing to essentially take orders from Varian, the king of one faction of a race that has been on Azeroth a fraction of the time they have? Where did all their savagery, warrior prowess, and nature loving go? What is their end in joining the alliance when they certainly never needed them in Warcraft 3? We have better (hashed-out) reasons for why Dreanei, Worgan, and Blood Elves chose their respective sides than why the Night Elves did. They aren't low in number, or in a weak state. They began WoW on alliance with no real reason why and it's just been accepted because that's the way the game started.

I didn't mean to go on such a pro-NE rant, but replaying Warcraft 3 recently really made me more aware of it, and this post really stood out to me. NE's had so much more depth to them than they have since WoW, and it would NOT be difficult to take that depth and create an intensely interesting story within the alliance. Their relationship with the other alliance races has so much potential that it blows my mind why it hasn't been investigated in the 8+ years this game has been around.

And all of this is coming from somebody who primarily plays horde.

[Talen]

This was called Classic WoW and WotLK. I don't remember many, if any, tears.

The Horde got story and development. It was RELATIVELY poor - but it existed. That period of WoW - Vanilla - also didn't last as long as the 4 years the Alliance has done without any true development or progress. There wasn't really time for the dissatisfaction to build up the same head of steam Alliance complaints now have behind them. TBC and LK provided the horde with enough lore, enough story, enough development, enough progress to stop that. The Alliance has been complaining about story, etc since Cata Beta and the answer is always - its coming, it coming, next patch, next XPac. And it hasn't really arrived. Alliance players now have that momentum under them and its taking less and less to set them off. Horde players would be the same.

LK also had a good deal of Horde development...especially around the Forsaken and BElfs. They got new members, they got to see the development and final testing of the Plague/Blight, the Forsaken got progress in their march towards vengeance, Garrosh was developed as a major Horde figure, the Varimathras storyline was progressed, there were major storylines involving the BElfs in Dalaran and the Scarlet Onslaught. The one aspect Horde players can complain about wrt LK is that the human side of the LK was explored far more than his Orcish side.

EJL

[SodiumChloride]

Maybe the earth isn't under going global warming. The raising sea levels are due to the endless crying of Alliance "fans".

Jesus Christ. When will the crying stop.

[Scummer]

Well it's nice to see posters like Buu derail and post flame bait on the 4th post in.

In any case, yes the Alliance can carry it's own story. It's just a matter of Blizzard actually acting upon it.
Cata was very much a story of Thrall struggling to fight the discord left by Deathwing along with Garrosh's rise to power his conquest across Azeroth. MoP was a balanced story until 5.3 and 5.4 appeared on the scene at which point the story very much shifted towards the Horde rebellion their attempt to liberate the Horde and Orgrimmar from Garrosh.

Maybe next expansion we will see an consistent Alliance. However I'm sadly left very pessimistic after Metzen's words about the Alliance receiving a story not being reflected in the game.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe the earth isn't under going global warming. The raising sea levels are due to the endless crying of Alliance "fans".

Jesus Christ. When will the crying stop.

If you can tell us why the Alliance story is ok atm then be my guest. Otherwise people are perfectly obliged to complain about the issues in the story of the faction they play. So rather than just telling posters to stop complaining, why don't you elaborate on why their complaints are actually wrong rather than spewing "stop whining" garbage into these threads.

[sidenorna]

Well, a big percentage of WoW villains is made of ex-members of the Alliance or directly tied with Alliance races (Onyxia, Ragnaros, Nefarian, Kel'Thuzad, Kael'thas, Illidan, Arthas, Azshara... ). Lets also not forget that no Horde race is directly tied to the Titans, except the Blood Elves. So a big, big chunk of Warcraft history comes from the Alliance.

Zul'jin, Cho'gall, Deathbringer Saurfang, Teron Gorefiend, Gurtogg Bloodboil, Hagara the Stormbinder, Warmaster Blackhorn...Should I list all the troll bosses in all the troll raids that were made up on the spot? And Ragnaros is as much part of the alliance as the sha of fear is.

[Darmalus]

The Horde got story and development. It was RELATIVELY poor - but it existed. That period of WoW - Vanilla - also didn't last as long as the 4 years the Alliance has done without any true development or progress.

LK also had a good deal of Horde development...especially around the Forsaken and BElfs. They got new members, they got to see the development and final testing of the Plague/Blight, the Forsaken got progress in their march towards vengeance, Garrosh was developed as a major Horde figure, the Varimathras storyline was progressed, there were major storylines involving the BElfs in Dalaran and the Scarlet Onslaught. The one aspect Horde players can complain about wrt LK is that the human side of the LK was explored far more than his Orcish side.

EJL

It seems to come down to a difference of perspectives. From mine, the Horde story ended at the Wrathgate, and the entire rest of the expansion was about the history of the Alliance races (vrykul, earthen and mecha gnomes) or various human/alliance heroes/villains (Tirion and the LK). Horde participation felt distinctly tacked on for the sake of giving them something to do.

Now, I love Northrend. Lots of good memories. But even then I felt that no one in the Horde other than the Forsaken had any motivation to visit Northrend. The tanunka were such a half-assed effort they really shouldn't have even bothered, they added nothing and have been quietly forgotten about.

[Talen]

Watching the Alliance neuter ever attempt at story development in MoP with their complaining, maybe? Metzen mentions "Trials of the High King." Players complain, "We don't want a High King! It's just a copy of a Warchief!" So they don't add the questline, keeping the "trials" as low key scenarios. Then Alliance complain that the Alliance has no storyline of it's own in MoP, despite being the ones who got the Alliance side storyline squashed in the first place.

Please. Blizzard didn't get rid of the Alliance Warchief concept. They kept it. They just got rid of the trials.

And rightfully so....the Trials were poorly written and were designed around the premise of making the other faction and leaders look bad so Varian looked good.

They didn't build Varian up into a leader the Alliance would be proud to follow....they dragged everyone else down so he'd be the best of a bad lot.

In truth...Jarod Shadowsong should have been the Alliance Supreme Commander. That would help deal with Blizzards ridiculous fixation with the humans. The Alliance has THREE strong, powerful nations at its core.

The Alliance players were right to neuter (as you say) Blizzards attempts at story in MoP. The players deserve better than half baked scenarios that show the Alliance at its worst.

Which is a pity in a way - the trials idea got some good initial traction but Blizzard poisoned that well with the awful way they implemented the idea. High King of the human nations? Yes. High King of the Alliance? An Alliance where others were made to look bad so he looked good? No.

That she was willing to admit Varian's more patient approach to warfare was more effective is character development on her part

Reckless is one thing. Stupid and incompetent is another. She is not a rookie...she is a combat veteran.

And what about "Blood in the Snow?" Constant whining and complaining of "what does this have to do with anything?" How about giving some character development to the third member of the Council of Three Hammers who even I'll admit has been doing nothing since early Cataclysm, showing Moira to be a strong and capable leader who does have the best interests of her people at heart even if her fellow council members don't trust her. Oh, and resolving the distrust between her and Varian after the events of Cataclysm.

And it was ridiculous. We are supposed to accept that a: the Dwarves aren't fully committed to the war against the horde and b: the Clans of Ironforge would rather see their capital come under siege from a minor Troll tribe than actually fight them.

Not only that, but that story serves to cut off one of the more promising Alliance stories Blizzard COULD have developed - political intrigue in Ironforge.

But nope, Alliance jumped on notions of the "High King" concept being a Warchief analogue

It *IS* a warchief analogue and one worthy of contempt because it puts the focus solely onto one faction of the Alliance and is a mechanic that is all but guaranteed to lead to the other factions being ignored even more than they have been. The Alliance does need a single command focus...but the last person it should have gone to was a human.

And now after two patches worth of non-stop whining the writers seem to have just thrown up their hands and gave up on pleasing the Alliance players.

No, they haven't. They are still writing truly awful stories for the Alliance and coming up with ridiculous explanations in a half hearted attempt to justify them.

Alliance players should NOT be expected to accept any old rubbish simply because the writers can't be bothered to come up with decent storylines or they've been deprived of story for years.

Please provide a single piece of evidence that Blizzard altered their planned story due to negative player feedback.

They've mentioned the very negative feedback they got wrt Tyrande as a reason they stopped the Trials scenarios in order to "improve them". The "Blood in the Snow" scenario was better received but players still didn't like the way the Dwarves were dragged down instead of Varian built up.

Story matters.

EJL

[gcsmith]

Please. Blizzard didn't get rid of the Alliance Warchief concept. They kept it. They just got rid of the trials.

And rightfully so....the Trials were poorly written and were designed around the premise of making the other faction and leaders look bad so Varian looked good.

They didn't build Varian up into a leader the Alliance would be proud to follow....they dragged everyone else down so he'd be the best of a bad lot.

In truth...Jarod Shadowsong should have been the Alliance Supreme Commander. That would help deal with Blizzards ridiculous fixation with the humans. The Alliance has THREE strong, powerful nations at its core.

The Alliance players were right to neuter (as you say) Blizzards attempts at story in MoP. The players deserve better than half baked scenarios that show the Alliance at its worst.

Which is a pity in a way - the trials idea got some good initial traction but Blizzard poisoned that well with the awful way they implemented the idea. High King of the human nations? Yes. High King of the Alliance? An Alliance where others were made to look bad so he looked good? No.



Reckless is one thing. Stupid and incompetent is another. She is not a rookie...she is a combat veteran.



And it was ridiculous. We are supposed to accept that a: the Dwarves aren't fully committed to the war against the horde and b: the Clans of Ironforge would rather see their capital come under siege from a minor Troll tribe than actually fight them.

Not only that, but that story serves to cut off one of the more promising Alliance stories Blizzard COULD have developed - political intrigue in Ironforge.




It *IS* a warchief analogue and one worthy of contempt because it puts the focus solely onto one faction of the Alliance and is a mechanic that is all but guaranteed to lead to the other factions being ignored even more than they have been. The Alliance does need a single command focus...but the last person it should have gone to was a human.



No, they haven't. They are still writing truly awful stories for the Alliance and coming up with ridiculous explanations in a half hearted attempt to justify them.

Alliance players should NOT be expected to accept any old rubbish simply because the writers can't be bothered to come up with decent storylines or they've been deprived of story for years.



They've mentioned the very negative feedback they got wrt Tyrande as a reason they stopped the Trials scenarios in order to "improve them". The "Blood in the Snow" scenario was better received but players still didn't like the way the Dwarves were dragged down instead of Varian built up.

Story matters.

EJL

Exactly EJL, the trials of the High king should have been The other races Teaching Varian lessons. This makes Varian better and develops the races.

A little Patience should have been Tyrande teaching Varian, a hot headed Orc Slayer, the value of waiting for the right time to strike.
Blood in the Snow should have been the dwarves teaching Varian that while it may not always work out well, trusting those who say their sword is with you is the mark of a good leader.

Why? Because it's Varian who should have wanted to rush the temple. He was enslaved by Orcs, had his family butchered by them
Varian should have wanted to trust the Dark Irons least, why? Because the Dark Iron took Ironforge by force in Cataclysm, kidnapped his son and because his father was stabbed in the back "literally" by someone he trusted.

[FuxieDK]

Zul'jin, Cho'gall, Deathbringer Saurfang, Teron Gorefiend, Gurtogg Bloodboil, Hagara the Stormbinder, Warmaster Blackhorn...Should I list all the troll bosses in all the troll raids that were made up on the spot? And Ragnaros is as much part of the alliance as the sha of fear is.

- Hagara is a fucking female worgen, how is that horde? Don't ask me, how a worgen can be a shaman, though...
- Zul'jin was Amani.. They were NEVER part of, nor tied to Horde.. Go watch v4.2 trailer once more.
- Deathbringer Saurfang is IMO more tied to Alliance (raised as a DK by LK, which is Aliance centered lore) than Horde tied. Just because he was an orc, doesn't make him tied to the Horde per say. Senior, yes, not so much Junior.

Cho'gal and Teron, I agree on.. Gurthogg... I'm not quite sure on how to place him...

[josykay]

- Hagara is a fucking female worgen, how is that horde? Don't ask me, how a worgen can be a shaman, though...
- Zul'jin was Amani.. They were NEVER part of, nor tied to Horde.. Go watch v4.2 trailer once more.
- Deathbringer Saurfang is IMO more tied to Alliance (raised as a DK by LK, which is Aliance centered lore) than Horde tied. Just because he was an orc, doesn't make him tied to the Horde per say. Senior, yes, not so much Junior.

Cho'gal and Teron, I agree on.. Gurthogg... I'm not quite sure on how to place him...

Nice try to troll...

[FuxieDK]

Nice try to troll...

....yet you failed so epicly, without actually makig any point.

[gcsmith]

- Hagara is a fucking female worgen, how is that horde? Don't ask me, how a worgen can be a shaman, though...
- Zul'jin was Amani.. They were NEVER part of, nor tied to Horde.. Go watch v4.2 trailer once more.
- Deathbringer Saurfang is IMO more tied to Alliance (raised as a DK by LK, which is Aliance centered lore) than Horde tied. Just because he was an orc, doesn't make him tied to the Horde per say. Senior, yes, not so much Junior.

Cho'gal and Teron, I agree on.. Gurthogg... I'm not quite sure on how to place him...

Hagara is a female orc....
And Deathspeaker Saurfang is as horde tied as Arthas is Alliance tied.

[FuxieDK]

Hagara is a female orc....
And Deathspeaker Saurfang is as horde tied as Arthas is Alliance tied.

Have you ever looked at her head? It's a worgen.. Never have I heard such proposterous claims, labelling her as an Orc..

[gcsmith]

She is an orc.
http://wowpedia.org/Hagara
ever heard of the shaman wolf helmet?