Rejoice! Demon Hunter is already playable in-game, but not clear enough, apparently.

[Teriz]

Sorry you are wrong.
- Yes Warlocks got some similarities with Demon Hunters. So what? Does that make a Warrior a Mountain King because he has three abilities from that hero? No.

Actually, it does. I certainly hope you're not waiting for a Mountain King class, you got a long wait.

- Demon Hunters don't run around using staffs or wands, or caster swords with no physical strength. They use melee weapons like Glaives. The Glaives only disappear while the Demon Hunters are in their Ultimate Form, Metamorphosis.

- Also, they're agile, have a high chance to dodge and are swift.
That's why Agility is the primary attribute for the Demon Hunter hero in Warcraft 3. Not Intelligence. And what's the main attribute of a Warlock? Hmm...

That is like saying Shaman aren't Shadow Hunters because they aren't throwing spinning blades at targets from a distance.

Blizzard already asked the playerbase about Illidan and the Demon Hunter in the past. Metzen himself would like to give Illidan a redemption story.
One of the Monk trainers does imply he wished he would became a Demon Hunter but he's a Monk now.

More than likely you got your Illidan revival in the Well of Eternity instance. Not that it matters, Warlocks already got Illidan-based armor anyway.

[Yarathir]

Development and abilities
Demon hunters have a variety of abilities that assist them in destroying demons, though the power coursing through their bodies also allows them to prevail over lesser foes. Demon hunters eschew heavy armor, valuing mobility and speed.


As a demon hunter grows in power, they undergo a gradual evolution, becoming more and more demonic in appearance. The changes are cosmetic and can take many different forms, from burning eyes to black blood. By the time the demon hunter reaches the pinnacle of his development, he is a twisted and dark version of his former self - though the chaotic energy in his body does not affect his personality and allegiance (or so the demon hunters claim), it wreaks great changes on his physical form. The demon hunter’s gradual evolution achieves its pinnacle as they become a demonic entity.



Their appearance has changed to something frightening: The exact changes vary, but can include glowing red eyes; horns; clawed feet and hands; nonfunctioning wings; cloven hooves; a spiked tail; dark skin; a deep, rumbling voice; and similar cosmetic changes. The demon hunter becomes an outsider.



The demon hunter can drain a demon’s energy to fuel their own powers. They mainly use arcane and fire energy. Shadow energy is rare. No other energies have been confirmed. The demon hunter can channel the chaos energy within them into a melee weapon to increase its powers. In time the demon hunter becomes more proficient in channeling demonic energy into their weapons, and highly skilled demon hunters are adept at this technique.



Demon hunters have shown the ability to cover their bodies in a shell of flame. At the pinnacle of evolution, Demon hunters can unleash the demon in them and turn themselves (temporarily) into something more. This is called Metamorphosis.
Demon hunters hone their speed and maneuverability to overcome their foes.

(from WoWPedia)



Listen here. While they might seem alike, Warlocks AREN'T Demon Hunters. Warlocks are a spell-based class that summons and enslaves humans. After Cataclysm, there is the Council of the Black Harvest, which consists of warlocks of multiple races, Horde and Alliance. The Council spends much of its time replicating spells of bosses that are dead lore-wise. Such as researching Cho'gall, or Ragnaros and finding a way to use similar powers.


They did the same with Illidan, which is where Metamorphosis is from. In short, they literally tried to replicate Illidan's demon form, but lookie-here: Illidan is not a normal Demon Hunter. Illidan has used the power of the Skull of Gul'dan to gain his new form, which Metamorphosis is styled after. This, whereas other Demon Hunters harness demonic powers to turn into demons. Demonic powers that aren't a part of the Skull of Gul'dan.



On top of that, Leotheras the Blind in Serpentshrine Cavern makes it seem as if Demon Hunters can be in constant conflict between the demon side that the excessive use of demonic power creates, and their own mind, sometimes transforming them not out of own will, or controlling their bodies.



These are all things unique to Demon Hunters. Warlocks don't have some kind of demonic entity within, warlocks don't have the same morality. Warlocks do everything for their own gain. Many of them are power-hungry, and would do anything (read: replicating the techniques of creatures that threatened the world, corrupt techniques, spells or magic) to gain more power.



In a way, this is not much unlike Demon Hunters. But Demon Hunters do it for different reasons. Yes, it's easy for them to lose themselves to the hunger for power, but at the core, Demon Hunters don't start out being Demon Hunters to attain greater power. Demon Hunters are usually born from survivors of tragic events. Someone who has had their loved one/family/and the like die to demons, or just simply someone who thinks they must do the things no other could do, because only they could do it.



Furthermore, demonic Metamorphosis doesn't really look like the warlock version, as I mentioned before. The warlock version is directly and specifically created by replicating Illidan (probably also why it has the same name) and not just a Demon Hunter technique. They directly researched Illidan and his powers to transform into his visage. That's why it looks like Illidan.



However, any other demon hunter using metamorphosis looks like:







Minus the name and weapons, of course. In fact, the name for this model in the files is in fact 'Demonhunter'.



Sure, there are a lot of similarities, but there are also a lot of differences. Saying a Demon Hunter is only about certain things the warlock class has stolen is like saying a monk is about certain things a rogue has stolen: being quick, precise and lethal.



Demon Hunters still have a lot that they can bring to the game if Blizzard does it well, and I think they can. On top of that, Blizzard has shown they have never had issues with making up new spells when adding classes. There are a lot of Death Knight spells that we didn't know of prior to them being added in WoTLK as well. That's the thing: they can make shit up, so long as that shit fits and doesn't entirely contradict the lore already established.

[Jessicka]

They are because the Demon Hunter abilities were spread over those classes. Its the same reason there's little to no chance of a Blasemaster, Shadow Hunter, or Dreadlord class. And yeah, a Demon Hunter would be more akin to Enhancement Shaman, Frost Death Knights and Fury Warriors in terms of how they fight in melee. Yet another reason they have no place in the game as a class.

DHs in the RTS have 4-5 abilities, each spec in WoW has 30+. Spreading out that handful of abilities is a drop in the ocean compared to the other 50+ the class in WoW would require. That they're iconic abilities are as important as icons as their lack of armour, their blindness, their melee fighting style and their association with Night Elves. All the things no other class has.

Well again, look at what's currently missing in the game. We don't have a third mail wearer, we don't have another ranged physical class except for Hunters, and we only have 3 full hybrids while there are 4 classes in two other class types. Additionally, we only have two more WC3 heroes who have no abilities tied to a class, and neither one of them are Demon Hunters. A mail wearing, ranged weapon using, full hybrid doesn't fit the Demon Hunter class, however it would work with a technology-based class like the Tinker.

Again, what's missing now isn't relevant to what could be considered missing in the future. Stop trapping yourself in what comes next or if there could only be one more class added. Even so, we only actually have one pure Melee DPS, yet we have three pure ranged DPS classes; are we therefore not missing a pure melee class?

Other gaps might be another class with 2 healing specs or 2 tanking specs to offer different ways for players who enjoy filling those specific roles different ways to approach fights in the same way Priest do now, or DKs used to in Wrath.

There really doesn't need to be a pattern or order in which these supposed "gaps" need to be filled anyway.

I never said anything different. I'm saying that Blizzard is less likely to introduce a class that is pure DPS. That being the case, the next class will be a hybrid. Given that the full hybrid is the least represented class type, it makes sense that Blizzard would put in another full hybrid, given their popularity, as well as their flexibility.

Given the principal argument was that the 'tanky' Glyph of Demon Hunting is why people think Warlocks are representing Demon Hunters, who says Demon Hunters need to be pures? Perhaps not full hybrids, but maybe 2 tanking specs, or a ranged weapon spec to fill the affore mentioned gaps?

[Bigbamboozal]

Wow guys, the last time I saw people argue over things like this, it was religion...
lawyerballing, appeal to consequenses of belief, appeal to incredulity, appeal to ridicule, ad hoc rescue, composition, false dilemma, circular logic, this thread has EVERYTHING!
Look, it's not an effective and playable style. But to counter that, it's not undoable, at all.
It's pixels and programming.
It's possible.
Believe it.

[Teriz]

DHs in the RTS have 4-5 abilities, each spec in WoW has 30+. Spreading out that handful of abilities is a drop in the ocean compared to the other 50+ the class in WoW would require. That they're iconic abilities are as important as icons as their lack of armour, their blindness, their melee fighting style and their association with Night Elves. All the things no other class has.

I could say the same thing about a Shadow Hunter. You think a Shadow Hunter has a chance of being implemented into the game as a class? I'd like to hear your argument for why or why not.

Again, what's missing now isn't relevant to what could be considered missing in the future. Stop trapping yourself in what comes next or if there could only be one more class added. Even so, we only actually have one pure Melee DPS, yet we have three pure ranged DPS classes; are we therefore not missing a pure melee class?

There's actually more melee DPS specs than caster DPS specs. There's only three physical ranged specs, and they're all Hunter-based. Raids already favor ranged to melee, yet you seriously want to add MORE melee DPS into the game?

I think most players in general want another physical ranged class for the next WoW class. You could take a poll here, and I have little doubt that physical range would win by a large margin. People are kind of sick of new melee classes being added to the game.

There really doesn't need to be a pattern or order in which these supposed "gaps" need to be filled anyway.

Who said anything about an order? There isn't an order to it. The current gaps are mail armor, full hybrid, and ranged weaponry. The next class is more than likely going to fill each one of those gaps. The Death Knight and the Monk class did the exact same thing when they entered the game. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. Its common sense. I'm sorry that the Demon Hunter doesn't fit that criteria, but that's just how it is.

Given the principal argument was that the 'tanky' Glyph of Demon Hunting is why people think Warlocks are representing Demon Hunters, who says Demon Hunters need to be pures? Perhaps not full hybrids, but maybe 2 tanking specs, or a ranged weapon spec to fill the affore mentioned gaps?

Except Warcraft Demon Hunters don't use ranged weapons, and they can't be full hybrids because a healing DH sounds utterly ridiculous. Honestly, they wouldn't wear mail either, since they're supposed to be half-naked killers. They just don't fit the current class gaps, which makes sense because Blizzard more than likely believes that DHs are already in the game anyway.

I don't know why you're trying so hard to fit a round peg into a square hole.

[rarhyx]

want to jump again on the train warlocks = demon hunters.
some say Locks are DH.

DH -> hunting and killing demons with their(demon) power.
Locks -> using demons and their magic for their own benefits.

But if we see what changed every expac with the demononlogy tree it looks like locks got better in controlling demons.

BC -> locks can control fel guards
WotLK -> locks copying Illidans meta
Cata -> no real change(?)
MoP -> changed the duration of meta with demonic fury (before it was 30 sec iirc) + DA glyph

need help at the wotlk and cata changes, I'm not a lock player so I don't really know what was changed, did they have melee attacks back then?

and now we got the greenfire quest.
the journal of Jubeka Shadowbreaker says:

Day 36:

Remarkable! My first attempt to summon a higher order member of the legion failed as spectacularly as planned. The shivarra broke free almost instantly after Kanrethad completed the ritual.

I expected the frail human to be struck down while I banished the creature. Instead, in the instant that the shivarra's razor-sharp blades sliced through the air, Kanrethad's form shifted and the blades bounced as if striking stone.

Unlike the typical form of metamorphosis, he did not complete the demonic transformation...

so in other words Kanrethad used the DA form. but wait, there's more in the page!

perhaps his research has been more successful than I expected.

which could be a hint that demonology's meta in the next xpac will be the appearence of DA and making the glyph of DA baseline (it's awesome for solo playing)
just change colors or size of the wing in both transformations and remove the melee attacks.

and now it's different from DH's meta.

but even if DH will not be the next class, this my prediction about walock changes for the next xpac

[Jessicka]

I could say the same thing about a Shadow Hunter. You think a Shadow Hunter has a chance of being implemented into the game as a class? I'd like to hear your argument for why or why not.

They're Troll exclusives, I think it would be hard to justify giving them to other races, especially Alliance ones. Clearly though they could function as a caster, physical ranged and healer.

There's actually more melee DPS specs than caster DPS specs. There's only three physical ranged specs, and they're all Hunter-based. Raids already favor ranged to melee, yet you seriously want to add MORE melee DPS into the game?

I wouldn't add them in isolation. That's the difference here. Your mindset is very singular as to what's added and when.

I think most players in general want another physical ranged class for the next WoW class. You could take a poll here, and I have little doubt that physical range would win by a large margin. People are kind of sick of new melee classes being added to the game.

I'm not going to speculate over what's most wanted. I know there's a gap there, players have been screaming out for a Ranger since classic because they wanted a petless ranged weapon user. Still, we got DKs first.

Who said anything about an order? There isn't an order to it. The current gaps are mail armor, full hybrid, and ranged weaponry. The next class is more than likely going to fill each one of those gaps. The Death Knight and the Monk class did the exact same thing when they entered the game. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. Its common sense. I'm sorry that the Demon Hunter doesn't fit that criteria, but that's just how it is.

Just stop with the "next class" crap. That's not what's being discussed. It isn't relevant.

Except Warcraft Demon Hunters don't use ranged weapons, and they can't be full hybrids because a healing DH sounds utterly ridiculous. Honestly, they wouldn't wear mail either, since they're supposed to be half-naked killers. They just don't fit the current class gaps, which makes sense because Blizzard more than likely believes that DHs are already in the game anyway.

I don't know why you're trying so hard to fit a round peg into a square hole.

Again, there are other gaps I already mentioned. Pure melee DPS, or a dual tank-spec class DHs could comfortably fill. Nothing against new lore either that could give them a ranged weapon or caster spec.

[kensim]

Tinkers more than likely wouldn't be wearing plate armor due to their ranged abilities (pocket factory and cluster rockets), along with their ability to turn mechanical. DKs definitely wore plate, fit as the dark counterparts to Paladins, and would be two-role hybrids since they couldn't heal.

We didn't have a bare handed martial arts class, we had a leather slot open, and we were missing another full hybrid class.

Where did I say the content of the expansion means nothing? I'm saying that if you study the archetypes, you can get a good idea of what class is coming next. That's how I predicted the upcoming Monk class before I knew what the expansion theme was.

Man I love this guy, Teriz you amuse me.

"Tinkers more than likely wouldn't be wearing plate armor due to their ranged abilities (pocket factory and cluster rockets)"

What pocket factories and cluster rockets? I love how you refer to this like it is a fact. Man I am going to post a thread about my ideas on a Tinker Class, and one of the primary abilities will be fire My Little Pony ass rockets, then I will refer to this ability as fact in all the threads I possibly can. Then I can be like Teriz. You know generally looked down upon as an ass clown.

"We didn't have a bare handed martial arts class, we had a leather slot open, and we were missing another full hybrid class."

Actually we had an expansion coming out that was an Asian theme, Chen was the cover boy, and Pandarans were added...and in the lore Monk is their signature class. The form they took (ie. leather armor and a full hybrid) may have been influenced in this numbers game you propose, but the class was going to be Monk because that is what the expansion called for.

"Where did I say the content of the expansion means nothing? I'm saying that if you study the archetypes, you can get a good idea of what class is coming next. That's how I predicted the upcoming Monk class before I knew what the expansion theme was."

Right now you have 5 class ideas linked in your signature. If Bard is the next class did you call it? LOL. You didn't call anything, and your "studies" mean nothing. If Tinkerer is announced tomorrow with robotic factories, cluster rockets, and my little pony ass missles, all your "studies" still mean nothing since you managed to fall into a coincidence. While I agree that there are only so many classes meaningfully present (currently) in the WoW lore, which comes next has more to do with the theme of the next expansion where a class is added rather than any "need".

I only say that because it's the way it has happened both times they have added classes. You know...facts.

[Teriz]

Man I love this guy, Teriz you amuse me.

"Tinkers more than likely wouldn't be wearing plate armor due to their ranged abilities (pocket factory and cluster rockets)"

What pocket factories and cluster rockets? I love how you refer to this like it is a fact. Man I am going to post a thread about my ideas on a Tinker Class, and one of the primary abilities will be fire My Little Pony ass rockets, then I will refer to this ability as fact in all the threads I possibly can. Then I can be like Teriz. You know generally looked down upon as an ass clown.

http://classic.battle.net/war3/neutr...intinker.shtml

"We didn't have a bare handed martial arts class, we had a leather slot open, and we were missing another full hybrid class."

Actually we had an expansion coming out that was an Asian theme, Chen was the cover boy, and Pandarans were added...and in the lore Monk is their signature class. The form they took (ie. leather armor and a full hybrid) may have been influenced in this numbers game you propose, but the class was going to be Monk because that is what the expansion called for.

http://classic.battle.net/war3/neutr...ewmaster.shtml

"Where did I say the content of the expansion means nothing? I'm saying that if you study the archetypes, you can get a good idea of what class is coming next. That's how I predicted the upcoming Monk class before I knew what the expansion theme was."

Right now you have 5 class ideas linked in your signature. If Bard is the next class did you call it? LOL. You didn't call anything, and your "studies" mean nothing. If Tinkerer is announced tomorrow with robotic factories, cluster rockets, and my little pony ass missles, all your "studies" still mean nothing since you managed to fall into a coincidence. While I agree that there are only so many classes meaningfully present (currently) in the WoW lore, which comes next has more to do with the theme of the next expansion where a class is added rather than any "need".

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...t-class-in-WoW

I only say that because it's the way it has happened both times they have added classes. You know...facts.

Indeed.

- - - Updated - - -

They're Troll exclusives, I think it would be hard to justify giving them to other races, especially Alliance ones. Clearly though they could function as a caster, physical ranged and healer.

And Demon Hunters are Elven exclusive.

Just stop with the "next class" crap. That's not what's being discussed. It isn't relevant.

Actually it is. If the next class isn't Demon Hunters, then they're not showing up as a separate class.

Again, there are other gaps I already mentioned. Pure melee DPS, or a dual tank-spec class DHs could comfortably fill. Nothing against new lore either that could give them a ranged weapon or caster spec.

Yeah, none of those are actual gaps. The actual gaps are mail armor, ranged weapons, and full hybrid.

[Belisaurio]

The QQ from a healing DH spec would be massive, and it would be almost entirely coming from DH fans.

Even if you added another melee DPS spec (which is what DH fans want, but not what the class balance needs), you've just created a carbon copy of the Monk class (melee tank, melee DPS, melee healing).

Ignore them Teriz. Remember what happened when Monks were released? When pandas were released? Mass QQ, Pandalandia sux, etc...
So just ignore them.
If Blizzard want a DH, they can create one without any problem. If they want to create a hybrid DH, they can do that without any problem. If they want a new dps-only class, they can do that too.

And Demon Hunters are Elven exclusive.

I'm not sure about that. It's a fact that they only gave us elven DH examples in wow, but I can't find anything "logic" for them to be only a elven-race class.
In wowpedia or wowwiki or in some tweets seems to be explained that there can be other races trying to follow the path of a DH.

[Jessicka]

And Demon Hunters are Elven exclusive.

Allows both factions to have them, but the wowpedia entry has this to say about them:

Race and initiation
The tradition of the demon hunter arises from night elf history, and almost all demon hunters are night elves. A few blood elves make the pledge as well, seeking revenge for the destruction of their home. Other races can become demon hunters, but such individuals are unheard of. Any member of another race who is willing to make the sacrifices necessary to join the fight against the demonic invaders must find a night elf or blood elf demon hunter to assist him in the initiation ceremonies.

They can be any race, but broadly they should be almost exclusively Night Elves, a race that in game cannot be Warlocks.

Actually it is. If the next class isn't Demon Hunters, then they're not showing up as a separate class.

Some proof of this? We don't even have any confirmation the next expansion will be Burning Legion related, although there are hints; there are also hints that it may be the expansion after next, with the next expansion being more Wrathion centric as he continues to prepare Azeroth for the Legion's coming and the Horde and Alliance rebuild from the Pandaria/Orgrimmar campaigns. That gives an opportunity for 'class after next', or even after that depending on how much they want to stretch out the Wrathion plot.

Yeah, none of those are actual gaps. The actual gaps are mail armor, ranged weapons, and full hybrid.

They clearly are gaps, just as much Intellect Plate and Spirit Cloth offer gaps to be filled.

[Belisaurio]

They can be any race, but broadly they should be almost exclusively Night Elves, a race that in game cannot be Warlocks.

If we were playing WC3, maybe yes.
But after a second attempt to summon BL generals into Azeroth, the alliances between some races, etc... I can't find anything that could shackle DH to elven races.
Of course they were only a elven-race class before, because there was only 1 DH. After that, only the elven-fanatics that followed Illidan (elven society...coff coff...) turned in to DH, and the Illidari forces from Illidan, only trained elves to become DH.
But we can't assume that DH are only for elves, because a master-DH can train whatever they want, and I assume, If a human can do the DH ritual (and sacrifice whatever they need to sacrifice), then, there isn't anything that blocks other races to be DH.

[kensim]

OOOH I can do this too!

http://classic.battle.net/war3/night...onhunter.shtml

Your point?

With regards to POTENTIAL skills and abilities you have no idea, maybe they feel giving cluster rockets to Tinkerers would infringe on Goblin racial abilities, engineers in general, or those ever so cute mecho-copters! Fact is you have ZERO idea. Stop trying to pass yourself off as having a clue.

Cause you know I have my Unholy Aura and Animate Dead as my DK. No wait I have Unholy Presence and Army of the Dead. Hmm those wacky Blizzard guys totally changed it up on me, those jokers!

WAIT! DID BLIZZARD JUST CHANGE UP "CORE" ABILITIES FROM A WC3 UNIT TO MAKE IT MORE VIABLE IN WORLD OF WARCRAFT! HEAVENS TO BETSY! AFTER THAT THEY THEN MADE ANOTHER CHANGE TO INCLUDE ANOTHER CORE ABILITY EVEN THOUGH ANOTHER CLASS ALREADY HAD IT IN ALL SPECS! OH MY!

Funny how that works. I don't think Warlocks having a couple of similar abilities will halt Blizzard if they want Demon Hunter in. It didn't stop Death Knight.

There was no concept of Blood, Frost, or Unholy DKs in WC3. There were no blood worms. There was no Icy Touch, or disease rotation. There was no Death Strike, Obliterate, Frost Strike, Scourge Strike, and/or Festering Strike in WC3. These are the mainstay most used attacks for a DK. All made up in WoW for WoW. Let's end this whole charade regarding Blizzards ability to put in any class they want. They can. They have. They will.

There is no numbers game either btw, at least when it comes to the initial class creation. If they can fill some logical gaps I am sure they do, however it is most likely after the fact and not actually a core part of the decision process. That's why DK didn't fill any of these perceived gaps (no real opportunity based on how they wanted to design it) and Monk did (they figured out a way to do so without sacrificing the feel/theme).

Heck Monks didn't get one of their abilities until recently and if I am not mistaken it was given to Windwalkers not Brewmasters (Storm, Earth, and Fire). The entire healing kit is missing from WC3 (with zero indications that Monks could heal) and the primary strikes used in WoW are not present either (much like DKs). In fact the only real items you can take from WC3 and relate them to WoW monks, breath of fire (I believe rarely used and single spec) and possibly the tanking stance (again one spec) being inspired from drunken brawler. Lastly Drunken Haze is again a single spec mechanic.

So considering the WC3 unit, both Windwalker and Mistwalker were made up totally independently. Why couldn't the same be done for Demon Hunters?

Lastly considering how you speak so factually about Tinkerers (and incorrectly i might add), you might want to realize that 1 or 2 WC3 abilities may be sacrificed or wholly changed for introduction into WoW. It's only happened to every WC3 inspired class in WoW (darn those facts again).

[rarhyx]

@ kensim sorry but unholy aura exists half(missing life regeneration):
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=55610

[Teriz]

Allows both factions to have them, but the wowpedia entry has this to say about them:

They can be any race, but broadly they should be almost exclusively Night Elves, a race that in game cannot be Warlocks.

That's from the RPG. Metzen himself stated that the RPG isn't cannon. Let me know when you find that non-elven Demon Hunter in WoW.

some proof of this? We don't even have any confirmation the next expansion will be Burning Legion related, although there are hints; there are also hints that it may be the expansion after next, with the next expansion being more Wrathion centric as he continues to prepare Azeroth for the Legion's coming and the Horde and Alliance rebuild from the Pandaria/Orgrimmar campaigns. That gives an opportunity for 'class after next', or even after that depending on how much they want to stretch out the Wrathion plot.

Nope. The twelfth class will be the final class. There's no point of going beyond the 12th class when all the gaps are filled, and all the WC3 heroes are gone.

They clearly are gaps, just as much Intellect Plate and Spirit Cloth offer gaps to be filled.

Both of which can be fixed via stat changes. You can't stat change your way to 3 mail armor users. Only a new class can fix that.

- - - Updated - - -

OOOH I can do this too!

http://classic.battle.net/war3/night...onhunter.shtml

Your point?

Looks like you missed it.

With regards to POTENTIAL skills and abilities you have no idea, maybe they feel giving cluster rockets to Tinkerers would infringe on Goblin racial abilities, engineers in general, or those ever so cute mecho-copters! Fact is you have ZERO idea. Stop trying to pass yourself off as having a clue.

Or maybe they would give Tinker class modified abilities from WC3 like they have for every class in WoW?

Cause you know I have my Unholy Aura and Animate Dead as my DK. No wait I have Unholy Presence and Army of the Dead. Hmm those wacky Blizzard guys totally changed it up on me, those jokers!

WAIT! DID BLIZZARD JUST CHANGE UP "CORE" ABILITIES FROM A WC3 UNIT TO MAKE IT MORE VIABLE IN WORLD OF WARCRAFT! HEAVENS TO BETSY! AFTER THAT THEY THEN MADE ANOTHER CHANGE TO INCLUDE ANOTHER CORE ABILITY EVEN THOUGH ANOTHER CLASS ALREADY HAD IT IN ALL SPECS! OH MY!

Actually you have Unholy Aura. For some reason, Blizzard can't use the name Animate Dead in WoW.

Funny how that works. I don't think Warlocks having a couple of similar abilities will halt Blizzard if they want Demon Hunter in. It didn't stop Death Knight.

That would be because no DK abilities existed in WoW before the DK was introduced.

There was no concept of Blood, Frost, or Unholy DKs in WC3. There were no blood worms. There was no Icy Touch, or disease rotation. There was no Death Strike, Obliterate, Frost Strike, Scourge Strike, and/or Festering Strike in WC3. These are the mainstay most used attacks for a DK. All made up in WoW for WoW. Let's end this whole charade regarding Blizzards ability to put in any class they want. They can. They have. They will.

Except that the DK is a unit from WC3, and its three presences are also taken from WC3, so Blizzard didn't completely make up the DK for WoW from nothing. It had its foundation in the RTS game.

. That's why DK didn't fill any of these perceived gaps (no real opportunity based on how they wanted to design it) and Monk did (they figured out a way to do so without sacrificing the feel/theme).

The DK filled the third plate armor slot and the final two-role hybrid slot. The monk filled the third leather wearing slot, and the full hybrid slot. Mail armor and the final full hybrid slot are the only major gaps remaining.

Heck Monks didn't get one of their abilities until recently and if I am not mistaken it was given to Windwalkers not Brewmasters (Storm, Earth, and Fire).

Yet no one doubted where SEF was going to end up when it landed in WoW.

The entire healing kit is missing from WC3 (with zero indications that Monks could heal) and the primary strikes used in WoW are not present either (much like DKs). In fact the only real items you can take from WC3 and relate them to WoW monks, breath of fire (I believe rarely used and single spec) and possibly the tanking stance (again one spec) being inspired from drunken brawler. Lastly Drunken Haze is again a single spec mechanic.

The healing spec is derived from the general Monk archetype. Hence the benefit of having a class derived from a large archetype.

So considering the WC3 unit, both Windwalker and Mistwalker were made up totally independently. Why couldn't the same be done for Demon Hunters?

Their core WC3 abilities are in other classes.
Demon Hunters come from a narrow archetype.

Lastly considering how you speak so factually about Tinkerers (and incorrectly i might add), you might want to realize that 1 or 2 WC3 abilities may be sacrificed or wholly changed for introduction into WoW. It's only happened to every WC3 inspired class in WoW (darn those facts again).

Of course. Balance is the name of the game.

[Jessicka]

That's from the RPG. Metzen himself stated that the RPG isn't cannon. Let me know when you find that non-elven Demon Hunter in WoW.

Not saying there is. The point is though that there are Blood Elf ones that fix the faction issue that Shadow Hunters, as being uniquely Trolls have. And if they are exclusively Elven, then Warlocks are not covering their niche as Night Elves cannot be Warlocks.

Nope. The twelfth class will be the final class. There's no point of going beyond the 12th class when all the gaps are filled, and all the WC3 heroes are gone.

I love how you say this with such certainty.

Both of which can be fixed via stat changes. You can't stat change your way to 3 mail armor users. Only a new class can fix that.

Or they can be fixed with new classes. Who even says a lack of mail users is a problem anyway? By the same measure a lack of fast Agility dagger users is a similar such "problem".

[Teriz]

Not saying there is. The point is though that there are Blood Elf ones that fix the faction issue that Shadow Hunters, as being uniquely Trolls have. And if they are exclusively Elven, then Warlocks are not covering their niche as Night Elves cannot be Warlocks.

That isn't a big deal, since Warlocks don't have to be exactly like Demon Hunters to fill their shoes in WoW. Just like Warriors don't split into multiple illusions, and vanish, yet they fill the Blademaster's shoes just fine.

I love how you say this with such certainty.

Logic is a powerful ally.

Or they can be fixed with new classes. Who even says a lack of mail users is a problem anyway? By the same measure a lack of fast Agility dagger users is a similar such "problem".

The lack of AGI dagger users is by design. It's so that Rogues dont have to compete with other classes for weaponry since all three of their specs require AGI daggers, and theres numerous AGI melee DPS specs. However again, if thats an issue, it can be fixed with a stat change that makes those daggers better for Shaman and Ferals. No biggie.

[rarhyx]

looks like nobody saw my post reagrding locks and DH:

want to jump again on the train warlocks = demon hunters.
some say Locks are DH.

DH -> hunting and killing demons with their(demon) power.
Locks -> using demons and their magic for their own benefits.

But if we see what changed every expac with the demononlogy tree it looks like locks got better in controlling demons.

BC -> locks can control fel guards
WotLK -> locks copying Illidans meta
Cata -> no real change(?)
MoP -> changed the duration of meta with demonic fury (before it was 30 sec iirc) + DA glyph

need help at the wotlk and cata changes, I'm not a lock player so I don't really know what was changed, did they have melee attacks back then?

and now we got the greenfire quest.
the journal of Jubeka Shadowbreaker says:

Day 36:

Remarkable! My first attempt to summon a higher order member of the legion failed as spectacularly as planned. The shivarra broke free almost instantly after Kanrethad completed the ritual.

I expected the frail human to be struck down while I banished the creature. Instead, in the instant that the shivarra's razor-sharp blades sliced through the air, Kanrethad's form shifted and the blades bounced as if striking stone.

Unlike the typical form of metamorphosis, he did not complete the demonic transformation...

so in other words Kanrethad used the DA form. but wait, there's more in the page!

perhaps his research has been more successful than I expected.

which could be a hint that demonology's meta in the next xpac will be the appearence of DA and making the glyph of DA baseline (it's awesome for solo playing)
just change colors or size of the wing in both transformations and remove the melee attacks.

and now it's different from DH's meta.

but even if DH will not be the next class, this my prediction about walock changes for the next xpac

[Jessicka]

That isn't a big deal, since Warlocks don't have to be exactly like Demon Hunters to fill their shoes in WoW. Just like Warriors don't split into multiple illusions, and vanish, yet they fill the Blademaster's shoes just fine.

Logic is a powerful ally.

I don't see your logic when they're now officially planning multiple expansions in advance. With that in mind, it makes little sense for them to draw a line and stopping at 12 classes.

The lack of AGI dagger users is by design. It's so that Rogues dont have to compete with other classes for weaponry since all three of their specs require AGI daggers, and theres numerous AGI melee DPS specs. However again, if thats an issue, it can be fixed with a stat change that makes those daggers better for Shaman and Ferals. No biggie.

Then that logic can be applied to ranged weapons and Hunters, and yet you're insistent another ranged weapon user is coming. Also, only 2 Rogue specs use fast daggers, Combat uses slower weapons.

[Teriz]

I don't see your logic when they're now officially planning multiple expansions in advance. With that in mind, it makes little sense for them to draw a line and stopping at 12 classes.

"Multiple" could just be 2.

As for 12 classes, there's really no need to go any further. All the armor and type gaps will be filled. People are already saying that Blizzard should stop making classes, and focus on the existing ones. After class #12, Blizzard could refocus on developing 4th specs for the existing classes. This may include a Demon Hunter spec for Warlocks.

Then that logic can be applied to ranged weapons and Hunters, and yet you're insistent another ranged weapon user is coming. Also, only 2 Rogue specs use fast daggers, Combat uses slower weapons.

Nope. Hunters are the only ones who can use bows, xbows, and guns. There are over 800 of those weapons in the game, and only Hunters can use them for DPS purposes. AGI daggers on the other hand can be used by leveling Druids and Shaman until they reach higher levels.

Ranged weapons are a bigger gap than AGI daggers.