Huge Hunter changes incoming

[scriix]

Man the more i read about next patch for Hunters the more glad i become that ive finally quit WoW, good luck pals haha

[Bullettime]

It's unfortunate that the mechanic testing is over. The 2pc bonus needs to be axed and the 4pc needs a rework for Marks. Beast and Marks largely feel like a ranged version of a Combat Rogue on the PTR, and not in a good way, given near permanent Rapid Fire coupled with Haste being the optimal stat for those two still even without RPPM according to sims. It turns into a button mashing train wreck with sub 1 second Cobra/Steadies.....

[Kaeth]

Let's hope a boost to Mastery scaling for all hunter specs counts as a "numbers" change rather than a mechanic. Every time they band-aid buff AotH, that just compounds the scaling problem in the long run, making AGI even more dominant while secondary stat become crappier and crappier. Secondary stats for hunters need a lot of love, and Mastery is both the easiest to tune and the most in need of a boost.

There's unfortunately no way to do much to improve Haste for Survival now, with its RPPM interaction nerfed and "mechanics" changes likely over.

[Bullettime]

Let's hope a boost to Mastery scaling for all hunter specs counts as a "numbers" change rather than a mechanic. Every time they band-aid buff AotH, that just compounds the scaling problem in the long run, making AGI even more dominant while secondary stat become crappier and crappier. Secondary stats for hunters need a lot of love, and Mastery is both the easiest to tune and the most in need of a boost.

There's unfortunately no way to do much to improve Haste for Survival now, with its RPPM interaction nerfed and "mechanics" changes likely over.

Haste still isn't very far off from Critical Strike even after the RPPM change. The two appear to be relatively close after running PTR data through SimC.

The problem is Mastery for all 3 specs. Agility is weighted about 3 to 3.5 times more than Mastery in any of our specs while only about double that of Haste and Crit. Mastery simply doesn't do much of anything for us no matter which spec you pick.

[asdfsaf]

please also post on the US forums that two of the four agi trinkets are not usable by hunters

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7860487012

[Deleted]

Just came from PTR.

2 set for BM is now 6 sec CD reduction, down from 9.
CD reduction trinket reduces CD on Camo, FD, Disengage, BW, RF, Stampede. We don't have single solid trinket to use. Usually, for DPSers trinkets reduces 3 offensive and 3 utility / defensive abilities. For us - 3 offensive, utility and 2 s*itty abilities.

P.S. Dire Beast was more bugged then "okish" on Malarok. The "room" has no objects in it. How did they manage to f*** pathing there is just beyond me.

[Ayazaki1218]

With all the things going in 5.4 for Hunters I look the future of hunters very grimm... Sure some changes are good but there is no clear compensation for most of them to balance our performance. Blizz says it is trying to make us on par with Warlock, Mages and Rogues in terms of pure DPS but... All I can see is the dawn of the class I love the most...

I've been tempted to start using one of my alts as my main in 5.4. Being honest, the class won't feel the same, at least not for me, and the worst thing is that many of the nerfs are because people complain about us in pvp for being too OP, but they don't see that they damage pve as well.

[Hayro1]

Lol @ the trinket lowering FD.....

[Danwo]

Morning rutine: See if hunters get buffed and hope for no palm in the face.

12.08.2013 - Tier set that have nothing with hunters to do. Palm in the face nr 9999999......
13.08.2013 - Hope for something good.

[Deleted]

About PTR... I was doing felxi testing yesterday.

Anyway, like I said, CD reduction trinket at the moment is a mess.
However, on Mal_oversized_orc_name I actually see us in a very good shape (despite DB bug). Deterrence soaking the pools is as powerful as on Lei Shen (I'm guessing on HC explosion will be higher then max. value of shield so immunities will be OP), while Disengage can be lifesaver in situation where you have to soak a pool, but at the same time P2 starts (and again for the very same situation, you actually want lock's portal not hunter - so much about "we'll get it in line"). Plus, using it while launched in the air, makes us take no fall damage at all. I was in Iron Hawk all the time, but it should be interesting to see Spirit Bond in this fight.

I was also playing little bit with SV. BA CD reduction actually has some sense. In situation where you expect your L'n'L to procc, you want to refresh BA early simply because you can end up with firing ES even +5 sec (not so unusual with 4 set). However, downside of SV is that L'n'L procs are pure gamble. Once, yesterday, I had back-to-back 2 L'n'L procs. I'm not sure how that happen (does 4 sec prevent from loosing duration on buff or did they reduce internal CD or something third, but yeah...), but moral is - in some situation you might end up spamming ES for quite long time, while if you are not so lucky, you won't be one single extra ES from L'n'L proc. They should change 4 set to also refresh SrS duration when L'n'L is not consumed.

As for BM, you actually starve yourself even under BW. I'm not sure, but you could actually end up using Fervor instead DB in all situations. Other approach would be to pool focus before hitting BW. Which one yields better DPS is beyond my grasp at the moment. Anyway, it might be subjective, but I somehow feel I'm casting way more CoS on PTR then on live which could means that even with RPPM nerf (haste) value of it won't change so much (as you actually end up casting more CoS).
2 set reduction is kinda nice after second and third BW (530 ilvl CD reduction) as it almost perfectly lines up with BW fading and allows hunter to fast regain focus (once again, you'll get starved - 530 ilvl). However, I couldn't sync them after third BW. RF was coming off CD a little bit later then BW fades.

Now, what bugs me, when we had 12 sec reduction off RF per cast, it was barely above 2 set DPS wise. Now, when BM only reduces 6 sec per AS on RF CD, will want to keep 2 set bonus from T15 and 2 set from T16 as long as possible? Femaledwarf shows huge impact if RF is used or not (if we'll be able to use RF every minute, it will be gain of about 10k compared to not using it), but I remember a lot of people complained RF is very very weak CD.

[Arrowqt]

Once, yesterday, I had back-to-back 2 L'n'L procs. I'm not sure how that happen (does 4 sec prevent from loosing duration on buff or did they reduce internal CD or something third, but yeah...)

The ICD of LNL still applies even on ptr. It's just the ridiculous amount of globals you need to dump ES with SOO 4 set, and that LNL ICD starts once it procs and not when you dump all charges.

As for BM, you actually starve yourself even under BW. I'm not sure, but you could actually end up using Fervor instead DB in all situations. Other approach would be to pool focus before hitting BW.

They both don't line up with BW as perfectly, but I could see how the instant, off the GCD regen could benefit during BW to maximise AS spamming to game RF uptime. Though I feel this could be resolved with better play that is within your control, DB would be a more well-rounded talent in those circs.

[Deleted]

Not sure if it's already suggested since there are a lot of responses to the OP already but I would consider a huge change to be something like finally giving hunters something they've wanted forever, a tank spec. Same goes for locks. Changing the mechanics to the point where the hunter/lock's main responsibility is controlling their pet and activating the pet's talents and abilities in order to tank content the way other tanks do now. I think range tanking can be interesting.

[Orcindauh]

Not sure if it's already suggested since there are a lot of responses to the OP already but I would consider a huge change to be something like finally giving hunters something they've wanted forever, a tank spec. Same goes for locks. Changing the mechanics to the point where the hunter/lock's main responsibility is controlling their pet and activating the pet's talents and abilities in order to tank content the way other tanks do now. I think range tanking can be interesting.

I think if they ever gave hunter a tank spec they would just make them melee(people have already been asking for a melee hunter spec)

As for the hunter nerfs, I really want to see how they're going to compensate us. We already got a murder of crows buff, really want to see how they are going to buff our signature abilities.

[Deleted]

Let's start from the very basics.

The very first time you move your pet it get hits in the back. GG pet tanking. Let's be serious - we still, after 8 years, have pathing issues. Tanking with a pet would be living nightmare.

[Slot]

I think if they ever gave hunter a tank spec they would just make them melee(people have already been asking for a melee hunter spec)

As for the hunter nerfs, I really want to see how they're going to compensate us. We already got a murder of crows buff, really want to see how they are going to buff our signature abilities.

AMoC is just because of readiness, and from what people and their math have shown its still meh. I hope the other changes aren't meh as well...

[subrosian]

I've made 7 topics on the US PTR forum on the subject of Hunter mechanics issues. Five of them have received blue responses, the other two were deleted, and ultimately I've had my account perma-banned twice on the Blizzard forums because of it. Not because of language, calling people out, or any other TOU-violation, literally simply for questioning the devs. The latest I got from customer service is that my posts imply the devs are lying, which is "unacceptable". Of course the fact that the devs HAVE lied is a moot point, apparently.

They've unbanned my account both times (waiting on the 24 hours to fall off on B.NET). The only change they made out of my list was to remove the focus cost of Dash. And yes, that change was because of me... it took two voicemails to Greg Street, a voicemail to Rob Pardo, several emails, two perma-bans and dozens of hours of emails and letter writing, but by god I got the focus cost removed from Dash (hold your applause, I was trying for actual fixes... I obviously failed).

-

The real issue is, fundamentally, that the devs do not understand Hunters. We're GCD limited, period, and our Focus problems on AoE are simply a symptom of our tempo (GCD) problems. In high-end (read, US 50-range or better 25-man raiding) raiding we're being completely phased out. We're good on a single fight next tier... and we're only good on that fight because the boss casts an AoE interrupt every few seconds... i.e. we can compete on a fight where no caster can cast... oh, and Affliction Locks are still better than us on that fight... so enjoy. The devs also fail to grasp that our huge percentages of damage tied to our pets (even as Survival / Marks) essentially makes us a melee class ... even more true for BM with Beast Cleave's positioning requirements.

The tweets and posts show their general cluelessness.

If you're hoping we can win... good luck. Keep making noise, keep supporting the champions of the class, demand real fixes and make it clear than them launching 5.4 without functioning Hunters means they aren't doing their job. Take it to people who actually matter - Lore is and always has been a mouthpiece for Blizzard (albeit, now he's paid for it), GC, same deal... take it to their bosses and explain that the dev team living in a magical bubble is an issue.

But also realize, a symptom of them living in that bubble is that they DO NOT LISTEN TO YOU. Your suggestions are forced in a civil manner because seeing people angry makes them annoyed. Not "I want to fix the problem" annoyed, just annoyed. But when you post in a civil way, they can completely ignore it, and that makes them happy, because they generally assume you're just begging for buffs and anything you say is wrong. They've long since become immune to your "whining" (and to them, it's all whining) and ultimately the devs themselves are shielded completely from your feedback.

The fate of the Hunter class comes down to broken internal sims, which will be made worse by bad PTR data from dozens of top Hunters exploiting old set bonuses (being scaled up) and item-stacking to do more damage "for fun" on PTR bosses... and PTR balance, where the fact that 1200-bracket players have no idea what to do against steady damage will wreck us... and the current "stun and gun" PVP model will cause further nerfs to anything even resembling Hunter DPS. The fact that they want to focus buffs on our "signature shots" is our best and worst hope... it means BM and MM will ultimately be doomed, and maybe, just maybe, 4-piece wielding Survival will be okay on a single target fight... should we find one next tier.

And those hoping for salvation from encounter design... there's one fight we're good on due to design... where locks are still better, and oh yeah, we're not particularly strong on Heroic Garrosh, which the tier will inevitably come down to... so enjoy. Those in casual guilds may shrug, but the death of high-end Hunter viability will trickle down in the same way it always has - through perception by players. It's a crap situation. Hold onto your butts and pray they make some big mistakes in our favor in the number pass... I doubt we'll be seeing anything close to what is needed to save high-end Hunters from the chopping block.

[Tehstool]

And those hoping for salvation from encounter design... there's one fight we're good on due to design... where locks are still better, and oh yeah, we're not particularly strong on Heroic Garrosh, which the tier will inevitably come down to... so enjoy. Those in casual guilds may shrug, but the death of high-end Hunter viability will trickle down in the same way it always has - through perception by players. It's a crap situation. Hold onto your butts and pray they make some big mistakes in our favor in the number pass... I doubt we'll be seeing anything close to what is needed to save high-end Hunters from the chopping block.

Do you have any logs or whatever? Because I can't use mine since it will cause sampling bias.

[subrosian]

Heh, that sampling bias argument on their part is circular. You give them logs, they say those logs are anecdotal. You give them sims, they say the sim can't be verified as accurate. You give them top parses, they say those are outliers. You give them aggregated "average" parses, they say player skill is impacting DPS... it goes on forever.

I don't have a clean set of PTR logs on WoL right now.

[Deleted]

We did make small buffs to Deterrence and Disengage and we will make sure DPS is where it needs to be (which, if I had to guess, will be relatively higher than it was in Patch 5.3).

Source

Da fak?

[Tehstool]

Source

Da fak?

They nerfed deterrence, but disengage was buffed. They must not have seen the posts detailing it.