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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Aiidan View Post
    Posting this again since people don't actualy read....

    cut

    This lore is from Wrath of the lich king expansion, way never than the old knaak books... This is what the game and lore is now, not the 10year old books.
    but this lore has incongruency and seem to be retconned right now, first we kill yogg and cthun and there is no proof that what we fight where only avatars and not the actual true body and second if algalon still watching is pretty much strange that he don't appear when Deathwing was about to destroy the world and now that garrosh unlesh the heart corruption he remain silent.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  2. #142
    Deleted
    The Old Gods fought between themselves AND against The Titans as one. Pretty clear who is stronger.

    Also Sargeras was compared to a bitch against The Old Gods. Should definitely stop overrating him.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeddicious View Post
    Imo... Sargeras > Old Gods.

    Purely my opinion though. If it came down to it, i think the moment we fought Sargeras, we would meet an enslaved old god in the same instance first
    Well, Sargeras already won a fight with the Old Gods. He was sort of the muscle of the Titans before he turned evil, and the Old Gods are the Titans prisoners so...

  4. #144
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughtrey View Post
    Well, Sargeras already won a fight with the Old Gods. He was sort of the muscle of the Titans before he turned evil, and the Old Gods are the Titans prisoners so...
    Sargeras left the Titans before they fought the old gods.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  5. #145
    Just to clear up some points,

    Sargeras was not corrupted by anything. He fell into a depression after eons of fighting the demons and he began to question the work of the Titans. At some point his depression took hold even further and turned him to what he is now. He basically brought all of his hate malice and it showed on his physical form. He then decided that the universe was chaotic and trying to bring order to it as the titans do is not going to work. Instead he should destroy the universe outright to bring order to it.

    The demons only affected him in that he became depressed after seeing all the horrors they were doing and how it seemed endless in doing his job. He is the primary antagonist of wow and thus will be stronger than any of the old gods period.

  6. #146
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    If sargeras went through the portal he would have his shit beaten so hard by anduin, thrall or other mary sue, that he would be too ashamed to come back to his home village.

  7. #147
    There are so many wrong informations here that it's stupid. There is no detailed explanation of the fight between the old gods and the titan in ANY official source. All we know is that the titans defeated the Old Gods. Don't fucking make your own lore and say it's fact. Stop using Krasus's words that Sargeras would beg for mercy when Krasus said after that the Aspects would be able to defeat the Old Gods. That's BS. The Aspects were like flies compare to Sargeras. Krasus's speculations was messed up.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    There are so many wrong informations here that it's stupid. There is no detailed explanation of the fight between the old gods and the titan in ANY official source. All we know is that the titans defeated the Old Gods. Don't fucking make your own lore and say it's fact. Stop using Krasus's words that Sargeras would beg for mercy when Krasus said after that the Aspects would be able to defeat the Old Gods. That's BS. The Aspects were like flies compare to Sargeras. Krasus's speculations was messed up.
    ^^^

    Also, every piece of lore about the Titan/Old God/Elemental War says that it was a horrible battle that went on for thousands of years, one where a Titan may have fallen (don't know if Galakrond retcons the C'Thun prophecy.). It was not some quick easy win for the Titans.

    And to give the best idea as to how strong Sargeras is. Archimonde, someone who arguably rivals Cata-Deathwing in power, entered the portal quite easily and early on. That means the power of the Highborne was strong; It took much more effort to summon Archimond in WC3.

    It took that same portal to continue on for days longer, be powered by Mannoroth and other additional demons, possibly powered by the Old Gods too (they wanted to summon him in there realm), and directly powered by the Demon Soul, for Sargeras to be able to ATTEMPT to enter. He even survived it collapsing on him (the ceased to be things is most likely retconned).

    So yeah, he is strong. And considering we have no source at all, aside from the very vague one i mentioned earlier, to have the faintest idea of how strong the Old Gods are, comparing the two is meaningless.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    ^^^

    Also, every piece of lore about the Titan/Old God/Elemental War says that it was a horrible battle that went on for thousands of years, one where a Titan may have fallen (don't know if Galakrond retcons the C'Thun prophecy.). It was not some quick easy win for the Titans.

    And to give the best idea as to how strong Sargeras is. Archimonde, someone who arguably rivals Cata-Deathwing in power, entered the portal quite easily and early on. That means the power of the Highborne was strong; It took much more effort to summon Archimond in WC3.

    It took that same portal to continue on for days longer, be powered by Mannoroth and other additional demons, possibly powered by the Old Gods too (they wanted to summon him in there realm), and directly powered by the Demon Soul, for Sargeras to be able to ATTEMPT to enter. He even survived it collapsing on him (the ceased to be things is most likely retconned).

    So yeah, he is strong. And considering we have no source at all, aside from the very vague one i mentioned earlier, to have the faintest idea of how strong the Old Gods are, comparing the two is meaningless.
    The ceased to be bit applied only in that he was took away for a while. It was explained otherwise if he was free to come back he'd just come back in no time to attack again. They used it as a way of saying heres a big bad guy but hes not around at the moment but who knows when he will be back \o/

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    He'd certainly win a a round of fisticuffs.
    But I think in terms of actual "power" the Old Gods are probably stronger. They're able to corrupt and unmake the Titan's work, and the Titans seem to be rather unable to successfully contain them... And Sargeras is a Titan after all, albeit a strong one. So I think Sarggie could beat them up, but if you put an old god and the dark titan in a room, eventually he'd gone insane and start listening to the voices.
    This is correct. Remember that it took the enitre Pantheon to subdue the Old gods. They only managed to kill on or 2 (correct me if I'm wrong), and a Titan fell aswell.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Pretty sure C'thun was "fully dead" in AQ40 too. Look how that worked out.
    Only if you dimiss the WoW Comic in which his "corpse" was still giving Cho'gall orders to capture/kill Me'dan.
    His little fleshy avatar might have been killed, but we didn't totally terminate him.

  12. #152
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    Sargeras would obliterate Azeroth. He wouldn't free the Old Gods since he has no reason to, they couldn't turn him into a pawn, either, since he could faceroll them.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by FraQture View Post
    This is correct. Remember that it took the enitre Pantheon to subdue the Old gods. They only managed to kill on or 2 (correct me if I'm wrong), and a Titan fell aswell.
    Well, we only know of 1 fallen Old God, Y'shaarj, if the remaining unknown presumably 5th Old God also fell, or is still alive but showing no signs and just gathering power, we don't know.

  14. #154
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    There are so many wrong informations here that it's stupid. There is no detailed explanation of the fight between the old gods and the titan in ANY official source. All we know is that the titans defeated the Old Gods. Don't fucking make your own lore and say it's fact. Stop using Krasus's words that Sargeras would beg for mercy when Krasus said after that the Aspects would be able to defeat the Old Gods. That's BS. The Aspects were like flies compare to Sargeras. Krasus's speculations was messed up.
    Cannot emphasise this enough. It feels like whenever a Sargeras vs Old Gods threads comes up that I'm the one that's always spamming that.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Cannot emphasise this enough. It feels like whenever a Sargeras vs Old Gods threads comes up that I'm the one that's always spamming that.
    To add to that, Krasus also said there are only 3 Old Gods on Azeroth, whilst we can count 4, one of them is dead though, and it's said in the WC3 manual that there's a total of 5.

    EDIT: War of the Ancients trilogy reads that 3 of them are actively trying to escape their prison, which we know; Yogg, C'thun and N'zoth.

    Y'shaarj is dead but the 5th Old God which we don't know about might not be.
    Last edited by mmoc851eedbfae; 2013-08-22 at 12:42 PM.

  16. #156
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FraQture View Post
    This is correct. Remember that it took the enitre Pantheon to subdue the Old gods. They only managed to kill on or 2 (correct me if I'm wrong), and a Titan fell aswell.
    No, just no. Subduing is MUCH harder than directly killing, people always say "IT TOOK THE WHOLE PANTHEON TO BEAT THE OLD GODS, SARGERAS IS ONLY 1, HE WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING" but it's simply not true since they had to chain these huge creatures beneath the surface against their will and countless armies. Similar to how it took the Old Gods thousands of years to corrupt Deathwing, would you say they're less powerful because they didn't kill him straight away and show their power? Deathwing in comparison to Sargeras, also... Please don't relate chaining them to their actual power because they could easily destroy all of the Old Gods without breaking a sweat. If they wanted to, they could kill them instantly. They don't due to the fact that it would destroy Azeroth, and that's not what they want.

    Sargeras was the Titan's greatest warrior, and was likely to be the most powerful (bar Aman'Thul (unknown since there is so much information missing)). Since "joining the dark side" he's also gained more abilities and knowledge, not to mention a colossal army and very powerful subordinates. He could even be more powerful than he was previously. Although, he doesn't have the most powerful weapon in the universe anymore and only has half, whether that would outweigh the new powers he's learned, we don't know. Even though it's just speculation, my money and probably the smart money is on Sargeras over the Old Gods. What could they honestly do to him since they rely heavily on corruption and mind control. It took them thousands of years to corrupt Deathwing who is a cockroach (if even that) in comparison.

    Just my thoughts.

  17. #157
    Dave Kosak also said in an interview once that hundreds of Old Gods were killen during the war (most likely lesser ones like the one in Twilight Highlands).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=TPF5kGZ7mQM
    Go to 16:30 mark where Kosak says it.

    Seems only "killing" Y'sharaaj caused a negative development. Hence them sealing the remaining 4 "Big Bad Old Gods".
    C'thun -> Thought to be dead, AQ sealed during War of the Shifting Sands by the Dragons & Night Elves.
    Yogg-Soron -> Sealed in Ulduar
    N'Zoth -> Sealed near the Maelstrom/former Well of Eternity(?)
    Y'Sharaaj -> "Killed" & heart sealed.
    #5 = still unknown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzlee View Post
    And Sargeras entering Azeroth is equal to the sun entering earths atmosphere?
    Think it was Chris Metzen who something along the lines of Sargeras entering Azeroth being 1000x more worse than Deathwing shattering the world. Not sure in which Q&A he said it though.

  18. #158
    Deleted
    well ingame lore it cleary states that the titans had indeed a few options on how to deal withe the old gods 1. yust plain out kill them but due to the curse of flesh thy would pretty much erdicate evrything else withe them to prevent them thy killed 1-2 of them and inprisonned the rest.

    like in ahn quiraj and ulduar . and lets be honest if you make a cage withe a beast inside that wont die easly then the cage will wither away little at a time and itl break free.

    to prove this the ahn quiraj bugs went nuts and were driven to war. and ulduar took longer becouse the gaurdians are more powerful then a mere bug so longer to corrupt. now the 3rd one i personaly belief has the naga onder its influence couse a old god shanged them into naga when the well was destroyed. and in cataclysm the faceless ones cooperate withe the naga.

    as to who is stronger old god vs titan = titan thy got a freaking reset button in that egyptian piramid of theirs- even algalon wanted to set the world of azeroth on the list for reset.

    as for sageras if he did at that time come trough the portal then i dont see anything stopping him. he would of anilhiated evrything and as for the old gods thy were stil inprisoned at that time killing something thats stuck in a cage aint that hard.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    No, just no. Subduing is MUCH harder than directly killing, people always say "IT TOOK THE WHOLE PANTHEON TO BEAT THE OLD GODS, SARGERAS IS ONLY 1, HE WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING" but it's simply not true since they had to chain these huge creatures beneath the surface against their will and countless armies. Similar to how it took the Old Gods thousands of years to corrupt Deathwing, would you say they're less powerful because they didn't kill him straight away and show their power? Deathwing in comparison to Sargeras, also... Please don't relate chaining them to their actual power because they could easily destroy all of the Old Gods without breaking a sweat. If they wanted to, they could kill them instantly. They don't due to the fact that it would destroy Azeroth, and that's not what they want.

    Sargeras was the Titan's greatest warrior, and was likely to be the most powerful (bar Aman'Thul (unknown since there is so much information missing)). Since "joining the dark side" he's also gained more abilities and knowledge, not to mention a colossal army and very powerful subordinates. He could even be more powerful than he was previously. Although, he doesn't have the most powerful weapon in the universe anymore and only has half, whether that would outweigh the new powers he's learned, we don't know. Even though it's just speculation, my money and probably the smart money is on Sargeras over the Old Gods. What could they honestly do to him since they rely heavily on corruption and mind control. It took them thousands of years to corrupt Deathwing who is a cockroach (if even that) in comparison.

    Just my thoughts.
    They rely on corruption and mind control because they're chained. The only one we've seen unchained was C'thun, who was severely injured and still regenerating. C'thun didn't use corruption or mind control. C'thun used energy blasts that hit for a million hp, at a time when having a couple thousand meant you were a total badass. He could kill the entire raid before they even went through the door into his room. He defined overkill. And all that was left of him was an eyeball.

    We can't compare him to the Titans because we don't know any details of their fight, and we don't even know how strong the Titans really are because we've never seen them fight at all. All we know is that when an Old God went down he took a Titan with him, and this Old God was presumed dead - hell, for a while he probably was dead in the medical sense. They were trying to kill him, not contain.

  20. #160
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    The Old Gods don't rely on corruption and mind control. They basically just play the long game because they know they won't be going anywhere. They have countless years ahead of them, time pretty much means nothing to them. So they take their time and are less direct simply because they can't be. They do what they can while still imprisoned. The end game for the Old Gods is to be free. Once they have that, you'd see some real Old God power being flexed
    Real Old God power? But what :/ They're not normal beings that fight with weapons or so, they're just big octopuses ;> They also heavily rely on armies and minions (judging by lore) since they don't melee each other in a supposed "civil war". We've also never heard anything of their supposed other powers apart from mind control and corruption. If they were so gifted, then it's likely we would have a rough idea of their combat skills, just like we pretty much know how Sargeras fights, just not the true extent of his powers. I guess it's once again down to speculation, I wish Blizzard would give us something solid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    They rely on corruption and mind control because they're chained. The only one we've seen unchained was C'thun, who was severely injured and still regenerating. C'thun didn't use corruption or mind control. C'thun used energy blasts that hit for a million hp, at a time when having a couple thousand meant you were a total badass. He could kill the entire raid before they even went through the door into his room. He defined overkill. And all that was left of him was an eyeball.

    We can't compare him to the Titans because we don't know any details of their fight, and we don't even know how strong the Titans really are because we've never seen them fight at all. All we know is that when an Old God went down he took a Titan with him, and this Old God was presumed dead - hell, for a while he probably was dead in the medical sense. They were trying to kill him, not contain.
    Whilst the top might be true, that's only an ingame mechanic and is pretty much irrelevant. Enraged Lich King can hit for about 5-10 million with Fury of Frostmourne, if I'm not mistaken. He could also one shot the raid instantly if he wanted to, but instead chose to toy with the players. Ingame mechanics or numbers don't count as lore strength, just like when people say "Deathwing was level 85 so he's stronger than Kil'Jaeden since he was 70". Refer to the reply above for some of your post.

    True we can't compare, but this is just speculation based on what we currently know. They weren't trying to kill C'Thun otherwise they would have, he was presumed dead in the war and was therefore not chained. They chained the other 3 surviving ones and would've chained C'Thun too, but they thought he was dead. I sincerely doubt they went there with the mission to kill him, because otherwise, as I said, he would be dead.

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