new races added should be able to be death knights

[Kaleredar]

And about your point with the Highbourne dieing and whatnot and not caring if the world burned and all the new naga are children of those Highbourne... well yes, but then, do you share the exact same worldviews as your parents? No? I bet neither do all the naga children. I rest my case.

"Some of the children didn't like the direction" isn't a valid reason to eek an entire race into playability.

And even if that were some workable angle... the naga "children" (if they can even reproduce) would be raised at the bottom of the ocean with only their parents and the whispering of the old gods to teach them. I'm sure they'd be pretty much enthralled to the cause.

[OzoAndIndi]

So some people went off and became Monks... becoming a Death Knight on the other hand wasn't exactly just deciding to run off and take up studies in it. A bit hard for 'new' races who's people weren't made into DK's against their will to be able to be that when the cause of it is in the past.

[checking facts]

"Some of the children didn't like the direction" isn't a valid reason to eek an entire race into playability.

And even if that were some workable angle... the naga "children" (if they can even reproduce) would be raised at the bottom of the ocean with only their parents and the whispering of the old gods to teach them. I'm sure they'd be pretty much enthralled to the cause.

1 - yes, they do. as a goblin, you kidnap naga children in the starting zone in order to negociate with their parents.

2 - while the naga were transformed and are currently allied with the old gods, there's no confirmation that they were brainwashed by them. they obey azshara, and azshara and the old gods have fairly different goals. n'zoth wants to destroy all life on azeroth, while azshara wants to rule over it. also: do remember azshara mind controls her servants. a group of naga could break free of her MC for some reason and join a faction to fight against her.

we've already seen a group of "naga heretics" rebel against azshara in favor of neptulon.

[Sand Person]

if ogres were to become playable, then they def should be able to become dks. they been in azeroth since the 2nd war.

[Duravian]

You can't just "recruit" Death Knights.

What is it with people and Naga? They're like the one race in all of Azeroth that could justifiably be said to be irredeemably evil. They were highborne that have already made the choice to be evil, and whatever new generations that have hatched since then probably don't have a lot of exposure to other world views, living at the bottom of the ocean and all. How could Blizzard justify enough of them deciding to fight for the surface dwellers that they become a playable race?

What I don't understand is how after all this time people still don't think about the gear problem with naga. Hey, they have a giant tentacle. Are the leg items gonna be single huge pant lets and the boots a cone for the tip of the tail? Has anyone ever seen a naga jump? The simple gameplay flaws should be a dead giveaway that naga will never be a playable race. And hell, at least in my opinion, naga are f**king lame and boring.

[checking facts]

if ogres were to become playable, then they def should be able to become dks. they been in azeroth since the 2nd war.

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What I don't understand is how after all this time people still don't think about the gear problem with naga. Hey, they have a giant tentacle. Are the leg items gonna be single huge pant lets and the boots a cone for the tip of the tail? Has anyone ever seen a naga jump? The simple gameplay flaws should be a dead giveaway that naga will never be a playable race. And hell, at least in my opinion, naga are f**king lame and boring.

gear:



trolls, tauren and draenei also don't wear boots, it's a non-issue.

jump: snakes jump, naga are snake people, they can jump like snakes.

also: your opinion is not shared with the majority. I love the naga, and I'd like to see them playable. metzen once said he'd like to see them playable too. on the last dev chat, ghostcrawler said that the naga could be playable, and that they are cool.

[Pr0ev0lution]

personally i'd much rather they finish vanilla model updates, then add a new class if it makes sense before they add any more races.

hell at this point theres hardly any races that actually make sense to be added

horde you'd have to say ogre and the ogre orc half breeds (rexxars race)

alliance jinyu i guess but they are just nelf model with a fish face, and high elves which so far in games have either just used the belf or nelf model.

as much as some people may want it naga make no real sense as a playable race and neither do arakkoa which is also sometimes mentioned.

[Curanhadin]

I'm still annoyed that the Death Knight got a race to begin with. If they'd stuck with the souls of warlocks crammed into the body of alliance knights I would have been far more pleased.

Those were the WC2 dks not the WC3 dks

[Immitis]

one of the reasons metzen gave for worgen death knights is "well its not like necromancy went away im sure the ebon blade have ways of making more so if you wanna look at it that way"

i want my damn death knights!

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its bad enough i got robbed from my favorite race of all time pandaren but if they add naga and they cant be dk i will rage @_@

[hrugner]

Those were the WC2 dks not the WC3 dks

Yep, back before WC3 killed the lore and everything went down the tubes!

...alright, I'm not that crazy. I do think WC2 warlocks are better though, those red cloaks and a story that isn't just "fell on hard times and went evil". If you go with the WC3 version then horde don't even get deathknights. Well, not of horde races. Actually, I guess all of them would still be humans since the lore for that time had paladins be a human exclusive vocation.

[Superchief]

Blizzard "should" allow players to be any race they want to be with any class. It's easy to see they are significantly damaging their game's integrity by allowing lore to get in the way of core gameplay. I mean if the game is currently on a downward slope of 7.7 million and dropping, it's mathematically proven ok so don't act like it isn't, it's dropping not increasing... so this is where common sense comes in: any class any race restrictions lifted - players get something to do and return to the game. It's common sense guys.

Would lifting the restrictions cause current players to stop playing? No, because it has nothing to do with them. In fact it allows them to race change to something new or start something new from scratch.

[Kaleredar]

one of the reasons metzen gave for worgen death knights is "well its not like necromancy went away im sure the ebon blade have ways of making more so if you wanna look at it that way"

Or you could just look at the Death Knight starting chain from a Worgen PoV, where it clearly says you're an escaped Worgen from Shadowfang keep.

[Jawless Jones]

While I'm not "enthralled" by the prospect of Naga as playable, you're approaching the situation all wrong.


Naga, and even Pandaren, could easily be Death Knights. Why? Because they were around when the Lich King was building the Ebon Blade. Naga have been in the game forever, and the Pandaren from the wandering isle have, in lore, been poking around Azeroth for quite a while too. It's the same with the Goblins and the Worgen: the DK versions aren't, in lore, the recently horde-aligned Bilgewater Goblins or Gilnean Worgen. They're Goblins and Worgen who happened to be killed and raised by the Lich King.

there is never a zone outside of northrend which both naga and scourge (with an actual leader) are BOTH present (the nearest naga population was in the hinterlands, which is inhabited by forsaken), the only pandaren which are seen outside the wandering isle pre-MoP have been in kalimdor (with the single pandaren on azuremyst being on the island since before the draenei crashed)

neither naga nor pandaren were around to be raised as a DK

[Immitis]

there is never a zone outside of northrend which both naga and scourge are BOTH present (the nearest naga population was in the hinterlands, which is inhabited by forsaken), the only pandaren which are seen outside the wandering isle pre-MoP have been in kalimdor (with the single pandaren on azuremyst being on the island since before the draenei crashed)

neither naga nor pandaren were around to be raised as a DK

warcraft 3 says hi. naga all up in dem northrends.

also pandaren helped garithos hunt down kael'thas when he went through the dark portal, there were also feral pandaren in northrend

[Kaleredar]

there is never a zone outside of northrend which both naga and scourge are BOTH present (the nearest naga population was in the hinterlands, which is inhabited by forsaken),

And the Worgen DKs are from Shadowfang keep, which was in forsaken (and in lore, human) controlled territory, but lo and behold, they found themselves under the command of the Lich king as well.

If you wanted to get super involved with it, the Lich King sent numerous scourge troops from Northrend to assist the DKs in attacking the Scarlet Onslaught; the Naga could very well have been sent from Northrend. There's also the Isle of Quel'Danis, which had its fair share of scourge at the time that the Naga moved in.

the only pandaren which are seen outside the wandering isle pre-MoP have been in kalimdor (with the single pandaren on azuremyst being on the island since before the draenei crashed)

neither naga nor pandaren were around to be raised as a DK

The Pandaren wandered all over in Lore. It's not remotely unfeasible that some would have wandered too close to scourge holdings or, again, if you want to get complicated with it having to be in Kalimdor, near Razorfen Downs.

[Jawless Jones]

warcraft 3 says hi. naga all up in dem northrends.

also pandaren helped garithos hunt down kael'thas when he went through the dark portal, there were also feral pandaren in northrend

i said "there is never a zone outside of northrend", meaning that that is the only place they had contact (and acherus was resurrecting fallen heroes who had fallen in the eastern plaguelands, not resurrecting stored corpses from northrend)

theres no such thing as a feral pandaren, they arent furbolgs

i hardly think a secret TD lvl in wc3 in which you slaughter waves of random furbolg re-colours is canon

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And the Worgen DKs are from Shadowfang keep, which was in forsaken (and in lore, human) controlled territory, but lo and behold, they found themselves under the command of the Lich king as well.

If you wanted to get super involved with it, the Lich King sent numerous scourge troops from Northrend to assist the DKs in attacking the Scarlet Onslaught; the Naga could very well have been sent from Northrend. There's also the Isle of Quel'Danis, which had its fair share of scourge at the time that the Naga moved in.



The Pandaren wandered all over in Lore. It's not remotely unfeasible that some would have wandered too close to scourge holdings or, again, if you want to get complicated with it having to be in Kalimdor, near Razorfen Downs.

there WAS a scourge presence (led by a leader) in silverpine when the worgen Dks escape, in hillsbrad there is 0 scourge presence

quel'danas was occupied by a bunch of random undead who weren't being controlled by a local leader, that means theres no-one to raise/bring them to acherus

in all other cases of Dks there is a confirmed presence of their race being around the plaguelands (goblins/worgen fit this criteria), pandaren do not, its only the hear-say of "them wandering places" without any concrete evidence of them actually going to the plaguelands or lordaeron in general

[Immitis]

in all other cases of Dks there is a confirmed presence of their race being around the plaguelands (goblins/worgen fit this criteria)

no they didnt. it wasnt until cata that they were retconned into the plaguelands.

naga were everywhere connected to the ocean. the eastern plaguelands has a beach.

[Surfd]

Ok, let's take your point since it's the one I usually hear/read.

First, let's touch on the orcs. Were the orcs evil? No, they were tricked into drinking demon blood. What about the second time? They weren't tricked then anymore. Grom drank demon blood and so did his orcs... at their own will, knowing what it will do but thinking they would control it.

Actually, that isnt quite true. I would have to re-play that campaign mission in WC3 for the exact wording, but I dont think they knew the Moonwell had been tainted by demonic blood, only that it was corrupted, and that the corruption could possibly empower them. They didnt really do it "willingly" either, in the sense of "sure, lets just do this". It was more of a "damned if you do, dead if you dont" kind of thing, since they didnt really have a choice. It was either drink the water, or die to cenarius and his animated forrest.

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Blizzard "should" allow players to be any race they want to be with any class. It's easy to see they are significantly damaging their game's integrity by allowing lore to get in the way of core gameplay. I mean if the game is currently on a downward slope of 7.7 million and dropping, it's mathematically proven ok so don't act like it isn't, it's dropping not increasing... so this is where common sense comes in: any class any race restrictions lifted - players get something to do and return to the game. It's common sense guys.

Would lifting the restrictions cause current players to stop playing? No, because it has nothing to do with them. In fact it allows them to race change to something new or start something new from scratch.

Actually, doing something like that would lose them far more players then it would gain. Removing class restrictions in the name of "gameplay" would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. A game like WoW lives or dies by decent adherence to its established lore. If undead paladins started popping up like weeds, and the only justification for their existance is "lol gameplay", it would be clear evidence that WoW has officially lost touch with the lore it is based on, and from there shit can only go downhill. Look at the amount of vocal bitch and moan we had when they officially announced Pandaria. Then try to imagine the mountain of shit that would hit the fan if they essentially went "lol, we tossing the lore right out the window". The pandaria uproar would be a freaking fart in the wind in comparison.

[Samsara]

The Orcs as a whole didn't chose to be evil. And in some ways I don't think their leaders did either. Their leaders chose to the drink the blood in the belief it would make them stronger, not because it would make them evil. They didn't know that drinking the blood would horribly corrupt and enslave them to the legion by turning them into rage monsters. The general Orc population may not have wanted what their leaders were after, but whether they did or not, the fell to the corruption as soon as the leaders drank.

Azshara I think had a pretty good idea of what she was getting herself into, but was drunk on the prospect of obtaining power beyond what she had imagined. Her people were so drunk on the idea of HER, that they blindly followed her every wish.

Yeah, some Naga could be redeemed, but I think the odds are pretty low given that their entire species have all come from those who adored Azshara to the point were they were happy to let the world burn because she said so.

The only things the Old Gods told Queen Azshara when she accepted their help was : "There is a way...there is a way...you will become more than you ever were...more than you ever were...we can help...we can help...You will be more than you have ever been...and when the time comes, for what we grant you...you will serve us well..."
she has no idea who the old gods are, yes she was summoning the legion willingly but when she became a servant of the old gods whe did it so she and her servants could survive the collapsing well of eternity

[Sageofthe10paths]

The Naga, all of them are mutated by the old gods, thus they are controlled by old gods. Do you honestly think a Naga would be like "yup, i'm over that N'Zoth guy, he's a dick. Can I join up with the Horde/Alliance?"