No buffs coming to hunters - official post

[Deleted]

Enlighten me on another class where all 3 specs are "amazing"?

Well, you seem to be a clever guy that know a lot, so you probably can figure out those 'amazing' specs. : ) And you really considering Hunters as amazing with all 3 specs?

As threadz said, Warlocks and Mage comes to mind, both in PvE and PvP (Arcane aren't strong in Arena for what I know, but farely good in RBG). Druids are, Feral/Balance, as well resto do more then well. Probably more, so there is classes that have more then 1 amazing spec. : )

Though this hardly have anything with the discussion in this thread, so better save it for another time.

[Windthorn]

Now that we have buffs, what are people's thought on the new opener without readiness. It's going to be more important now to get stampede, DB, SrS of before you first hit BW. Also we now save our rapid fire to use after the first BW is over. I'm looking at SrS>KC>Stampede>DB, maybe an arcane or CoS ( not figured it out yet due to high focus cost if arcane shot), then when KC is of CD, start the BW rotation, once that's over hit rapid fire. Thought of other openers but this seems the best, though the high cost of AS kinda makes things more clunky IMO.

[Deleted]

Now that we have buffs, what are people's thought on the new opener without readiness. It's going to be more important now to get stampede, DB, SrS of before you first hit BW. Also we now save our rapid fire to use after the first BW is over. I'm looking at SrS>KC>Stampede>DB, maybe an arcane or CoS ( not figured it out yet due to high focus cost if arcane shot), then when KC is of CD, start the BW rotation, once that's over hit rapid fire. Thought of other openers but this seems the best, though the high cost of AS kinda makes things more clunky IMO.

Why wouldn't you use RF during BW?

[Windthorn]

Why wouldn't you use RF during BW?

No readiness maybe? Perhaps with the 2 set a case could be made to use it with BW?

[Tehterokkar]

No readiness maybe? Perhaps with the 2 set a case could be made to use it with BW?

I was thinking more of the fact that ALL of your procs are up during the first 10-15 seconds. Why would you want to delay it so that you use Rapid Fire outside of Trinket/etc. procs. Stacking CDs = Higher DPS. However this doesn't really matter once for the Rapid Fires after the first one used at pull, since you probably won't have procs up unless you get RNG favored.

Although 2pc makes this entirely moot, since you want to hit Rapid Fire whenever you can so the CD can start rolling again with the amount of extra AS we get due to increased focus regen from RF.

[Deleted]

Readiness or not there's no reason to not stack RF with BW and every possible procc. If you do as u described you will pop RF 14-15 sec in the fight, when all your proccs are gone (rppm trinkets last 10 sec in 5.4). Meanwhile if you pop it with BW you will gain:

-focus regen to make up for the AS increased cost to avoid casting any CoS during BW (assuming you use DB)
-focus regen for your pet to increase WH uptime during BW (virtually 100%)
-massive autoshot damage increase
-more meta proccs
-more legendary cloak proccs
-more 4 piece proccs (t15)

all of this under trinkets/scope/pot proccs, with means around 22-25k more agility overall during BW.

[Windthorn]

We did at one time never stack RF with BW, guessing it's different with the opener. Still however the opener for Rentaki's right now on live vs the opener without it are different, would you delay BW in order to get of RF/Stampede, SrS, DB or literally pop it on the pull (which I'm doing with Rentaki's opener to get as many KC's in during the proc - on pull ofc - see past posts about this)

[Littlepinch]

The Reason i see not to pop RF during BW is capping out on focus. with BW + RF i doubt you could spend focus fast enough to not cap out.

[Flidro]

The Reason i see not to pop RF during BW is capping out on focus. with BW + RF i doubt you could spend focus fast enough to not cap out.

The RF is not so much for your own focus as much as it is for your pet's focus regen.

[Ozzayel]

I'm confused the buffs from a couple days ago said Explosive Shot was increased by 8% damage and RAP scaling.
Current front page lists this among the other buffs from before:

Explosive Shot damage has been increased by 27%.

So does this mean the explosive shot buff has been increased or is there a mistake somewhere?
Also the aimed shot buff is bigger than stated a few days ago.

[Deleted]

The Reason i see not to pop RF during BW is capping out on focus. with BW + RF i doubt you could spend focus fast enough to not cap out.

On live yes it's possible to cap, on ptr where arcane costs 15 focus during BW instead of 10 it would be a bit harder to cap on focus with just RF and BW. Maybe if you have Hero/Lust+RF+BW you might cap if you started high on focus and got lucky/unlucky with a few Invigoration procs. And if you are a Troll and have Hero/Lust+RF+Berserking+BW you will almost certainly cap on focus.

I'm confused the buffs from a couple days ago said Explosive Shot was increased by 8% damage and RAP scaling.
Current front page lists this among the other buffs from before:

Explosive Shot damage has been increased by 27%.

So does this mean the explosive shot buff has been increased or is there a mistake somewhere?
Also the aimed shot buff is bigger than stated a few days ago.

The MMO-C ptr patch notes are compared to the previous build while the Blue's patch notes are compared to the current Live build and we already saw a an ES buff before and the 8% is added onto that.

[saucywench]

Perhaps Blizz needs an attention grabber, like suddenly there are no hunter classes being played? Seemed to work for warlocks.

[Kaeth]

Perhaps Blizz needs an attention grabber, like suddenly there are no hunter classes being played? Seemed to work for warlocks.

While being a popular class among the forum-going, theorycrafting set, Hunter is also (along with Paladin) one of the two most popular classes overall, and a huge portion of the player base doesn't bother with the forums. Kind of hard to start a movement when possibly a vast majority of the players of your class don't know there's a problem (many of them happily continuing to autoshot/afk or Arcane spam their way to mediocrity in LFR -- in which case the problem doesn't even affect them), and you'll never be able to make them aware of it.

Warlocks were in the awkward position at the end of last expansion of having a combination of an extremely high skillcap as well as confusing and clunky mechanics for new or inexperienced players. That just naturally shrank the warlock pool without the need for any organized "player strike." They also had a biased developer who wanted to see the class improve and championed the class during MoP development (before being canned for bad-mouthing his fellow devs). Hunters, on the other hand, seem not to have a single dev who understands our scaling issues (i.e. friggin' mediocre secondary stats) in PvE.

[Namarus]

The Reason i see not to pop RF during BW is capping out on focus. with BW + RF i doubt you could spend focus fast enough to not cap out.

If you are capping out focus during rapid fire+BW you aren't playing very well. Obviously you should have started your RF+BW at a lower focus level.

[Littlepinch]

If you are capping out focus during rapid fire+BW you aren't playing very well. Obviously you should have started your RF+BW at a lower focus level.

Well in my defense, BM isn't my main spec ( Hate the spec with a passion ). Only reason i have it is because we need all the dps we can get on progression kills. If it was up to me id be MM full time but i guess blizzard doesn't like that idea.

Also saying im not playing very well just because i gave 1 reason why not to pop RF and BW off the pull is alittle off base. You could have just corrected me and be done with it.

[zenyatta]

Why wouldn't you use RF during BW?

I don't stack it now, and my ONLY reasoning is that since BW is basically KC/Arcane spam, I don't need the haste for the instants... they're instant. I don't have any problems with my RPPM stuff going off in my opening burst, maybe once a month one will fail to trigger on pull. So I use it after BW wears off and I need to stabalise my focus - pop RF and get some quick stabalising Cobras in to get my rotation/priority up and running. As for focus capping during BW+RF 9on live) - I apply SrS (focus cost), KC (focus cost)... but then I toss Dire Beast (restores focus), Stampede (no focus cost), and when I get to BW+RF I'm just not out of focus. I'd have to delay them and drain my focus first, then burst (which sorta defeats the whole idea of burst).

I have seen arguments for both ways, and while I do generally consider myself a min/maxer (in that I will drop mucho cash to regem and reforge for just an extra 300 dps if I can), I haven't really gone out of my way to weigh the difference between using it during and after. My performance isn't suffering from doing it after, so I haven't seen reason to change it yet. Honestly, if I could see some extensive BW with and without RF logs, I'd love to see what the difference actually is (and I would adjust my rotation accordingly). I asked about this once and got very divided answers, but that was closer to the beginning of the patch when we were still trying to gauge it.

[Deleted]

Then again you are losing DPS. RF's focus regen or casting speed is the lesser of it's benefits. Your pet's focus regen is way more important than yours during the opener, so you can maximize Wild Hunt uptime. Then again casting 40% more autoshots with 20 or 25K more agility outweights a few hasted CoS and extra AS outside of any procc. So does your 4 piece bonus, and your meta gem. And will do your legendary cloak in 14 days. But ofcourse everyone is entitled to play as they see fit.

[threads]

Perhaps Blizz needs an attention grabber, like suddenly there are no hunter classes being played? Seemed to work for warlocks.

Might aswell just find a new class you enjoy because that will never happen with hunters. Way too many people play the class that don't give a shit about dps or raid viability because it's an arguably low skill cap class that has the pretty pets to collect. Just because the top 5% of raiders don't stack hunters won't be enough.

[Perrito]

Why wouldn't you use RF during BW?

because all you cast is instnats at this point unless you have 2pc (i did old ptr testing and didnt matter cause after bw rf cd would come up now is way dif with just 4 sec) i wont use it and even then with 4 sec you cant cast that many AS to reduce the cd.

while bw you cast instants, RF will affect just autoshots, RF after BW will allow you to cap focus faster into more dumping due to CS having a cast time and rapid fire help with that.

[Merlaine]

great players learn to adapt and do great dps no matter what, bad players whine no matter what

What a stupid statement. That only applies if everyone else in your raid team is sub par and not as 'great' as you are. All things being equal, hunters (for now) will still have lower dps than most other classes where the players have equal skills and gear.