Official Warlock Green Fire thread [spoilers]

[Szarala]

Personally, I wouldn't want the encounter itself to be directly nerfed; while I certainly wish it had been designed differently (from a standpoint of making the encounter itself more enjoyable to me, pass or fail), it is what is it and it would be pointless to change it.

What I wouldn't mind seeing in this case though is a determination buff (though not on the scale of LFR's.. more along the lines of +1% per attempt and requiring dropping Kanrethad below say 50%, or reaching a certain stage) that would be cleared upon leaving the instance or voluntarily by using an option on the anvil. Win-win, imo. Those that like this type of challenge aren't bothered and those to whom it is nothing but a bottomless font of unenjoyable frustration have a means of eventually getting it with enough effort. The only people that would have a problem with it are the ones who somehow feel their own accomplishment is diminished by others having fun and quite frankly, screw those guys.

[prwraith]

..and I wish the people that like this sort of thing would understand that not everyone does.

Let's say there were a hypothetical quest chain to give your voidwalker a hat and at the end of that chain was a lengthy platforming sequence that required timed jumps and whatnot. People who like Mario or Tomb Raider games would probably think it's the best thing ever while people who don't would be upset.

Except in this case, you're playing an RPG you knew the score when you loaded world of warcraft up for the first time. And you damn sure knew the score when you started this encounter.

The whole thing just asks you to pay attention and use a few more abilities than your used to. It's nothing as drastic as putting in a platformer in a stat/rotation based rpg.

[Szarala]

The whole thing just asks you to pay attention and use a few more abilities than your used to. It's nothing as drastic as putting in a platformer in a stat/rotation based rpg.

..not the point I'm trying to make. The fight is very attention-intensive; the most so of any encounter in WoW I can think of off the top of my head (and certainly the most attention-intensive solo encounter) ..which is precisely the type of encounter I personally -hate-. Now I realize that I might be in a minority in this opinion (I certainly seem to be in a vocal minority about it) and I absolutely recognize that this is right up the alley of others. For those that dislike it, that it's such a lengthy and unforgiving encounter compounds and magnifies the frustration.

Yes, there's probably a significant subset of those that complain about it that just want free/easy stuff. I won't deny that "casual entitlement" exists to a certain extent. I'm willing to bet, however, that a larger subset are those, like me, who just plain don't enjoy the encounter. Some will try to analyze/explain the specifics of why they do not, others aren't going to be much more elegant than "this isn't fun, nerf it".

Sampling just the responses here though, it sorta proves my point. Dozens of posters are touting that there's no other pve challenge like it in the game. Well, doesn't that mean that it's apart from the norm?

[Garretdejiko]

Got it about a month ago. Quitted in february and got it the 2nd day i resubbed.
I though posting about my experience throughout this quest chain, but i'll keep it simple...
The only macro i used was "/tar pitlord /cast enslave demon".
I can say the most important thing in the Kanry fight, was hiding the Pitlord behind the nearest pillar after the Cataclysm that leads to a felhunter phase.

My main problem was the second felhunter phase. The first phase was cake, but the second wave of puppies were magical jerks who could dispell through walls. I said to myself "wtf blizz, i can't do shit if your crap is bugged".
And at some point, i remembered Enslave Demon had a determined amount of time before it wears off.

(...)

After slapping myself about an hour or two, I made an aura in order to track Enlsave Duration and presto, went down in the 2nd attempt.

So yeah, fight was really easy after all.

Hopefully, this quest chain will be removed after Pandaria, or at least it should be scaled to the next xpac's cap level.
rdy4h8

[Lysakers]

Hopefully, this quest chain will be removed after Pandaria, or at least it should be scaled to the next xpac's cap level.
rdy4h8

I agree somewhat with this. Doubt they will, since there will be a massive uproar if they decide to do so, but if they dont remove or scale it then they can just as well make green fire baseline.

[Szarala]

Hopefully, this quest chain will be removed after Pandaria, or at least it should be scaled to the next xpac's cap level.
rdy4h8

I agree somewhat with this. Doubt they will, since there will be a massive uproar if they decide to do so, but if they dont remove or scale it then they can just as well make green fire baseline.

..before i just say something outright mean, why?

[rhorle]

The whole thing just asks you to pay attention and use a few more abilities than your used to. It's nothing as drastic as putting in a platformer in a stat/rotation based rpg.

WoW is already part platformer. They ask you to jump, move, and avoid certain abilities and Isle of Thunder added platformer dailies. Besides the green fire fight has nothing to do with stat and rotation based mechanics. Just accept the fact that not every one agrees it is the best thing since sliced bread and that there could have been a better way to offer it to warlocks then a simple dps and threat challenge.

[Deleted]

The green fire is a reward for beating such a hard(lol) encounter.

Don't like how the encounter is designed? You'll still do the same dps in raids, dungeons etc. You'll just be firing orange fire...

Want the cool looking green flames? Go beat the encounter...

There's nothing hard about it at all, you just have to actually play the game the way it's supposed to be played.
Not "Turn up to boss, get free rewards!"

[Bluesftw]

This ecounter is getting nerfed everytime you gear up anyways , no need for more nerfs. I wish tho they implemented some scaling there like in challenge modes, so it remain somewhat hard to do despite time progression, but then some ppl would never got it and drown in their own tears i guess

[Szarala]

I wish tho they implemented some scaling there like in challenge modes, so it remain somewhat hard to do despite time progression, but then some ppl would never got it and drown in their own tears i guess

You too. Why?

[prwraith]

..not the point I'm trying to make. The fight is very attention-intensive; the most so of any encounter in WoW I can think of off the top of my head (and certainly the most attention-intensive solo encounter) ..which is precisely the type of encounter I personally -hate-. Now I realize that I might be in a minority in this opinion (I certainly seem to be in a vocal minority about it) and I absolutely recognize that this is right up the alley of others. For those that dislike it, that it's such a lengthy and unforgiving encounter compounds and magnifies the frustration.

Yes, there's probably a significant subset of those that complain about it that just want free/easy stuff. I won't deny that "casual entitlement" exists to a certain extent. I'm willing to bet, however, that a larger subset are those, like me, who just plain don't enjoy the encounter. Some will try to analyze/explain the specifics of why they do not, others aren't going to be much more elegant than "this isn't fun, nerf it".

Sampling just the responses here though, it sorta proves my point. Dozens of posters are touting that there's no other pve challenge like it in the game. Well, doesn't that mean that it's apart from the norm?

I can accept that you don't like it, though I wish you did

I'd argue that yes it's apart from the norm. But moreso as an extension to the existing, rather than shooting off in an entirely different direction.

[Szarala]

I can accept that you don't like it, though I wish you did

I'd argue that yes it's apart from the norm. But moreso as an extension to the existing, rather than shooting off in an entirely different direction.

Yanno.. I had my retort all ready to go, but before hitting post, I paused, looked it over (like any good warlock should) and thought to myself "when debating using a series of analogies, if you've come to the point of using a 'soup with too much cilantro' analogy when debating something in a video game, you should probably stop while you're behind".

[prwraith]

Yanno.. I had my retort all ready to go, but before hitting post, I paused, looked it over (like any good warlock should) and thought to myself "when debating using a series of analogies, if you've come to the point of using a 'soup with too much cilantro' analogy when debating something in a video game, you should probably stop while you're behind".

Rofl. We can be friends

[Shuji V2]

This is driving me nuts.. All up to the big bad demon it was pretty much a walk in the park, yet a fun experience. But now I'm having the most annoying whipes you can imagine -_-

I execute everything perfectly yet somehow between 1%-10% he always manages to get a chaos bolt off (even though I LoS it) or the damn felhunters eat up my enslave -_-

I'm putting out around 110k dps, lining up my chaos bolts+dark soul+doomguard with Charge, Breath pretty much on cooldown, dispel myself with it or with imp special when possible and everytime when I get below the 10% threshold something retarded happens and I whipe. The most frustrating one was where the second felhunters spawn around 5%, ate enslave and I ended up whiping on 1% lol.

Sure, this is one of the most fun encounters I've had since I started playing 7 years back. But those little quirks that whipe you for no reason are so f'ing annoying :P But man, it'll feel awesome when I have my green fire after all this hard work ;D

Just came here to rand btw. Now I'll be going back to getting my green fire.

Edit:
Fuck yes.

[Lysakers]

..before i just say something outright mean, why?

I dont intend to step on any toes, i just feel that when they design a series of quests that will reward something purely cosmetic and make it "hard" to obtain, then it should stay that way.
Like challenge mode dungeons - you get some rewards for completing them, and if you are not dedicated enough or "good" enough then you dont get it. It rewards people that are simply better at playing the game, or that puts more time in to get what they want.

If they dont make the quest unobtainable or scaled in the future - then by 6.0 its the same as making green fire baseline.
At the original ilevel for the quest, you actually have to preform to get your award, and by doing so will reward induviduality. This is also shown in the PVP part of the game. You do go, you get stuff other people might want, but can never have because you are better.
Put short, a sense of accomplisment.

[Szarala]

I dont intend to step on any toes, i just feel that when they design a series of quests that will reward something purely cosmetic and make it "hard" to obtain, then it should stay that way.
Like challenge mode dungeons - you get some rewards for completing them, and if you are not dedicated enough or "good" enough then you dont get it. It rewards people that are simply better at playing the game, or that puts more time in to get what they want.

If they dont make the quest unobtainable or scaled in the future - then by 6.0 its the same as making green fire baseline.
At the original ilevel for the quest, you actually have to preform to get your award, and by doing so will reward induviduality. This is also shown in the PVP part of the game. You do go, you get stuff other people might want, but can never have because you are better.
Put short, a sense of accomplisment.

There is nothing else (pve) in the game that scales like with the explicit exception of challenge modes which were put there specifically for that purpose. Symbols of pve "status" are fleeting, have been since the game came out and are that way quite intentionally.

For every subset of players that have the most fun testing their limits and being among the 'elite' there's another (probably larger) group that gets their fun from coming back much later and beating up their former bullies when they are bigger. This has been a core tenet of many RPGs (predating MMO's) and is alluded to in WoW itself in a few instances (most notably in the Chromie quests in Dragonblight).

[rhorle]

I dont intend to step on any toes, i just feel that when they design a series of quests that will reward something purely cosmetic and make it "hard" to obtain, then it should stay that way.

But shouldn't development time go towards new content? And at this point where do you draw the line? ToT gear level? 5.3 gear level? 5.1 gear level? 5.0 gear level? 5.4/5.5 gear level? What happens if 6.0 comes along and changes existing spells like removing threat drop from gateway or removing enslave all together? Does the item that starts the quest still drop from old content or does it scale to the newest "patch hub"? Is it fair to have it drop from Isle of thunder but require a recent tier item level?

Should time really be devoted to constantly maintaining the proper balance? Even with item level scaling or equalization they still have to account for new mechanics etc. Having it unobtainable is just simply stupid because it wastes all the time they put into it. Why should green fire be something only warlocks during MoP have access to?

The accomplishment you get is like with everything else PvE, you did it sooner and got to enjoy it longer. It is a personal accomplishment the same as old raids becoming solo-able versus always scaling to keep the same difficulty.

You have to examine what is best for the warlock class, and not what is best for your sense of self elitism. Is it better for every warlock to get something considered to be "core" to the warlock class, or for only a few?

[prwraith]

But shouldn't development time go towards new content? And at this point where do you draw the line? ToT gear level? 5.3 gear level? 5.1 gear level? 5.0 gear level? 5.4/5.5 gear level? What happens if 6.0 comes along and changes existing spells like removing threat drop from gateway or removing enslave all together? Does the item that starts the quest still drop from old content or does it scale to the newest "patch hub"? Is it fair to have it drop from Isle of thunder but require a recent tier item level?

Should time really be devoted to constantly maintaining the proper balance? Even with item level scaling or equalization they still have to account for new mechanics etc. Having it unobtainable is just simply stupid because it wastes all the time they put into it. Why should green fire be something only warlocks during MoP have access to?

The accomplishment you get is like with everything else PvE, you did it sooner and got to enjoy it longer. It is a personal accomplishment the same as old raids becoming solo-able versus always scaling to keep the same difficulty.

You have to examine what is best for the warlock class, and not what is best for your sense of self elitism. Is it better for every warlock to get something considered to be "core" to the warlock class, or for only a few?

With the scaling system they have allegedly designed for old raids in the next expansion. I don't see it as entirely unfeasible to turn that on in reverse for this encounter.

[Deleted]

With the scaling system they have allegedly designed for old raids in the next expansion. I don't see it as entirely unfeasible to turn that on in reverse for this encounter.

What rhorle is asking is what is the point in scaling if Blizzard decide to change Warlock mechanics which make the encounter more difficult ? And scaling-as an actual mechanic- only should be used so far; one of the reasons a lot of players continue playing is to defeat mobs or bosses that they previously couldn't with higher stats (in fact the "let's throw some more gear on and hit it again" philosophy is pretty much core) and therefore scaling has it's time and it's place.
Karenthad has already been defeated with a wide range of gear levels ranging from from 460 to 550 and if Blizzard adopted scaling to the encounter where would they draw that line because any decision within that range could be (and rightfully) considered the wrong one. The only way Blizzard could preserve the "exclusivity" of green fire and the challenge would be to make it temporary content which, gain, has it's drawbacks for little gain.
The encounter is non-essential, mechanic heavy, requiring a certain degree of focus and with a unique cosmetic reward which are good things, but rather than seeking to preserve the integrity of the encounter (which cannot happen) I think people should be asking of more of the same.
Stuff gets outleveled. It's less an issue of technology and one which goes to the heart of the game. it won't be the first time some encounter is introduced which people want preserved only to see it trivialised by the onward march of time; I remember going into Cata lot's of people wanted Arthas taken out the game, people have asked for longevity to be added to legendaries. Today's cool stuff and challenging encounters will always be tomorrow's commonplace.

[Deleted]

Don't post on these forums anymore but want to say I did it today at ilevel 488.

Key is to constantly get aggro down, never forget it.
Key is to move your pitlord behind pillar and set him on passive then Soulshatter before he even starts summoning those fellhounds.
Key is to aggro both doomlords to your pitlord and let him tank it, health funnel him too, I did health funnel unglyphed.
Key is to after the second doomlords, RoF and Fel breath the imps, then take them down with FnB a little but not completely, leave them a little health so you RoF and can SPAM CHAOSBOLT.

When he hits 20% use RoF on imps and just Shadowburn away while keeping aggro down via Soulshatter and portal.

Good luck.
And don't forget Puri pot.