Garrosh took child prisoners from Theramore

[Deleted]

I was under the impression that Wolfheart happened before the in-game version of Ashenvale, and that the Horde simply regrouped and attacked again.

Actually this is true, but the events of the Alliance questline come after the Horde ones. So most of Ashenvale is in Night Elf hands, except for Silverwind Refuge which is under siege. Maestra's Post and Astranaar are safe.

[Solonar]

During Tides of War - the Siege of Theramore, a Kaldorei ship called the Starsword carried off all children and many of their families to Gadgetzan. The Horde most likely had this ship intercepted and the load brought to Orgrimmar. In the Mists entry cinematic you can see that Nazgrim speaks of a victory in Tanaris & Tol Barad.

While from a moral point of view this is all disturbing and sick, but a lot of Warcraft is if you look at it all. There's things that you simply don't see in-game because the game'd have to be 18+.

Draenei weren't just slaughtered en-masse by the bloodthirsty Old Horde. They were raped as well, a perfect example of the results are Garona and Lantresor of the Blade. Humans too got raped by those same Orcs, resulting in Half-Orcs. You know the girl you save in CoT: Durnholde Keep? She was an unwilling mistress to the person called Aedelas Blackmoore. She later had her head removed for helping Thrall - that head was tossed to the then-Warchief.

All the atrocious acts the Scourge performed, Naxxramas and Icecrown Citadel most likely being the pinnacles of all those experiments. The boss Thaddius is made up from women and children, their souls practically merged together. As Falric says in Halls of Reflection: "Men, women and children... None were spared the master's wrath. Your death will be no different."

I'm surprised they went to this point with Siege, to be honnest. Even half the stuff the Scourge and Twilight's Hammer did wasn't really displayed as much as this. Trolls, Humans executed, strapped to poles or targets only to be swiss-cheesed with arrows. Kudos to Blizzard.

[Aquamonkey]

I'm surprised they went to this point with Siege, to be honnest. Even half the stuff the Scourge and Twilight's Hammer did wasn't really displayed as much as this. Trolls, Humans executed, strapped to poles or targets only to be swiss-cheesed with arrows. Kudos to Blizzard.

There are Mantid in HoF that are impaled and still twitching.

[Raiju]

There are Mantid in HoF that are impaled and still twitching.

Yeah but they're just bugs.

Seriously ask more people what they think of the mantid and they're "just bugs". There story doesn't exist because they're "just bugs". I was slightly surprised the first time going into HoF and hearing comments like "all the bosses look the same" and "they're just all bugs". The story gets ignored by a lot of people because of their race it seems.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Yeah but they're just bugs.

Seriously ask more people what they think of the mantid and they're "just bugs". There story doesn't exist because they're "just bugs". I was slightly surprised the first time going into HoF and hearing comments like "all the bosses look the same" and "they're just all bugs". The story gets ignored by a lot of people because of their race it seems.

It's obvious really. They could mince their children and eat them, show this to the players even, heck, make you participate in it, and no one would give a crap. Someone killing a more human looking child though, of hell, call the media, we got a story here folks. There are huge double standarts when it comes to races, no matter how much you go into detail with a fictional people, their culture, their morals and thinking, as long as they are not too human-like on the outside you can do what you want with them.

[Deleted]

Yes, but so many pro-Garrosh fans used the fact that he allowed Theramore civilians to live as proof that he wasn't all that evil. This destroys that claim.

Just a pathetic addition by Blizzard that screams "please hate this character already!". If they have to try that hard it simply shows they failed at creating a coherent story.

[Gelannerai]

Just a pathetic addition by Blizzard that screams "please hate this character already!". If they have to try that hard it simply shows they failed at creating a coherent story.

Meh, Blizzard's writing has been pretty suspect since Wrath ended imo.

[Noomz]

The orc that talks of all the "lesser races" that need to die, and you think he'd have a problem with killing children? Come on.

[Raelys]

Oh I like it. I hope he turns them into little Sha monsters.

Seriously? That's a little sadistic. Seriously man. I mean...I can be sadistic when I write but...I don't believe I can cross that line.

It was fine (and funny). Sigh.

OT: Good, more depth and development for characters that shouldn't be so PG in a world this bloodthirsty.

[Deleted]

Garrosh for the Win!

[Lumineus]

Just a pathetic addition by Blizzard that screams "please hate this character already!". If they have to try that hard it simply shows they failed at creating a coherent story.

The problem is that piling on even more reasons to hate Garrosh effectively does nothing. Most players already hate Garrosh because he's Orc Hitler. Alliance players specifically need reasons to not hate the rest of the Horde for going along with him for so long, until it was no longer convenient for their own interests, to solidify Garrosh as the villain.

[Falrinn]

I can't help but wonder if there is something more to this particular plot point.

Blizzard has been maintaining that even now there are details of the ending of the SoO that will make it feel like a victory for the Alliance. What if rescuing the people of Theramore turns out to be at least part of this?

There's a nice symmetry to this overall. MoP started with the destruction of Theramore, ending (at least for the Alliance) with the rescue of what remains of the population of Theramore could give a certain level of closure all on it's own. Going forward Theramore could be reestablished as a kingdom, or perhaps integrated into the Kirin Tor.

[ParanoiD84]

It's war after all, also lol compared to other games/stuff it's pretty lame stuff.

[Stormdash]

This would probably horrify me more if a) Garrosh didn't already need killing, and b) there hasn't been a quest since we hit Jade Forest about Alliance using forced labor, dare I say slave labor, to build and fortify their airfield, including children -- and how this has never been particularly controversial on the forums that I've noticed.

[seije]

WoWwiki is pretty shit, that site is hardly updated and short on citations.

When you finish Ending the Threat, you find [Hellscream's Missive]:
"The letter from Garrosh Hellscream makes clear the suspicions that were raised during the offensive on the Shatterspear. The presence of forsaken at the tower ruins and horde supplies and enforcers at the Shatterspear War Camp were only the start. Garrosh himself contacted the Shatterspear to spur their offensive towards Lor'danel, and it seems clear that he fully intends to push from the south as well."

"The Shatterspear tribe split off from the Gurubashi empire after the defeat of Hakkar the Soulflayer. The various tribes claimed territories in the vast jungles of Stranglethorn Vale but quickly began fighting one another.
The Shatterspear tribe eventually settled at the northeast edge of Darkshore. Highly reclusive and apparently uninterested in claiming further territory, the Shatterspear trolls established a small village in Shatterspear Vale, which is almost entirely surrounded by jagged hills. The trolls' purpose in living in the vale is unknown at this point in time. It is a strange location for any troll to choose to live: surrounded by mountains and, beyond that, night elves (the trolls' ancient enemies).[1]
The night elves knew that the Shatterspear lived in their territory, but as long as the trolls were not hostile, they were apparently quite content to leave them and Shatterspear Vale in peace." Taken from Wowpedia.

If Garrosh had to 'spur' the offensive, it doesn't sound like they were under orders, but rather bribed or goaded. 'Spur' has a very different connotation than 'Ordered.' And as i said, the Trolls before this point in game were neutral. So if they are horde, it's a recent occurrence, or perhaps this is their 'trial run' to actually join the horde. Either way, it certainly doesn't feel like a true victory over the horde. Splitting hairs, perhaps, but the having the Shatterspear as neutral right before this makes a huge difference, at least in my mind.

The retreat is from a previous quest when the Forsaken try to take the keep.

Maleb and the other members of the leadership grabs a vial of worgen blood and promptly drinks it, turning them into worgen.
Agatha says: Run...!
Agatha says: RUN!
Agatha grabs you and flies you out of the keep while worgen attempts to kill Agatha.

Again, i apologize for my ignorance on this questline, i never levelled through silverpine when i played horde. Are there other horde present during this quest? (though regardless, a little push and pull over a single, miniature island hardly feels like a major loss)

[Count Zero]

Something I just thought about (and I've been trying to keep up with the posts in this thread but I may have missed it if someone else mentioned it):

If Garrosh has had these prisoners since the fall of Theramore, or shortly after ... these prisoners have been kept underground for all of MoP. So, lore-wise, it will have been about, what, a year that these folks have been in underground cells ? 'Cause they certainly weren't being kept prisoner out in the open until the Siege. Unless they just captured the refugees. Which is itself an interesting possibility ... why would he capture them now ?

[seije]

Something I just thought about (and I've been trying to keep up with the posts in this thread but I may have missed it if someone else mentioned it):

If Garrosh has had these prisoners since the fall of Theramore, or shortly after ... these prisoners have been kept underground for all of MoP. So, lore-wise, it will have been about, what, a year that these folks have been in underground cells ? 'Cause they certainly weren't being kept prisoner out in the open until the Siege. Unless they just captured the refugees. Which is itself an interesting possibility ... why would he capture them now ?

honestly, it just feels like a giant ass-pull on blizzard's part. Surely Jaina would have followed up on the boats that escaped theramore. Surely, SOMEONE would have noticed that a ship of survivors went missing. And even if you ignore that fact, I can't see Garrosh spending a single crumb of food on alliance prisoners; child, adult, or otherwise.

[Deleted]

What some people seem to be forgetting is the fact that the whole thime Garrosh was insisting to uphold the code of honor during is war against the Alliance to secure Horde/Orcisch superiority.

Stonetalon? The General got executed for bombing out young nightelfen children/teenagers.
MoP? Telling Ishi during the Lion's Landing-scenario that murdering the enemy in their slumper is honorless.
Orgrimmar? Gutting Warlocks and hanging them for being users of forbidden magic.

But it's suddenly okay to slaughter innocent children and unarmed, caged civilians and put them on spikes?

That back and forth is the problem, not the scenery itself. Either let him deveolpe that path down or don't instead of going rollercoaster with your character.
He can't be the honorfull Orc that wants the Alliance defeated and a MUAHAHA-Maniac-Evilguy at the same time, that's what is bugging me the most.
Blizzard should have stuck to one archetype and went down that path, instead of all that inconsistenties during the story.

[Krek01]

This is my headcanon about Garrosh.

I think at some point in his development (being more and more "corrupted" by Pride), Garrosh probably thought to himself:

"You know what? Screw honor! I don't have to be a slave to it anymore! I am above and beyond honor! I can do whatever damn thing I want, because I'm the WarChief, and anyone who says otherwise can be impaled!"

[Verdugo]

This is my headcanon about Garrosh.

I think at some point in his development (being more and more "corrupted" by Pride), Garrosh probably thought to himself:

"You know what? Screw honor! I don't have to be a slave to it anymore! I am above and beyond honor! I can do whatever damn thing I want, because I'm the WarChief, and anyone who says otherwise can be impaled!"

And soon after that, he time traveled back to siege of Theramore and kidnapped its citizens?