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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    He fought for the preservation of Southshore and Hillsbrad. Almost all of the people that lived there have now been killed by the Forsaken. He fought off the Orcs in Lordaeron city, and now finds that said zombies that have since murdered his countrymen in Southshore and Hillsbrad not only CONTROL the city, but also ALLOW the orcs to come and go through a destroyed Lordaeron as they please.

    And this is a guy who HATES orcs. A guy who basically ascended into god-mode level paladin BECAUSE he hated orcs so much.


    He wouldn't be all "smiles and sunshine" with the horde.

    And as for Alleria... she and Turalyon have likely been fighting Demons in the twisting nether for the past decade or so. Not only would she still 1) hate the Orcs with a passion but 2) Probably not be wild with throwing her lot in with the glowing green-eyed formerly demonic-magic-aligned Blood elves, ESPECIALLY when the High Elves (including her sister) are still kicking around... and further considering that said blood elves have again helped the Orcs commit terrible acts of warfare, one of which directly lead to the death of her sister's husband.
    You've taken a lot of editorial freedom with your description of Turalyon. He fought for peace and the preservation of Azeroth. He knocked Blackhand unconcious, routed the horde to the dark portal and followed them over to make sure the portal stayed closed rather than to wipe them out. Though in fairness, with how Jaina has been handled recently, you're probably right, he'd go murder crazy and eat babies for the light.

  2. #142
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Who says hey have superior numbers at the siege?
    The Alliance would just have to sit back, let the horde and Kor'kron smash against eachother, then roll in the entirety of the Alliance army after the dust settles and order the remaining forces to surrender.

    But that would be too "mean" for the Alliance.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The Alliance would just have to sit back, let the horde and Kor'kron smash against eachother, then roll in the entirety of the Alliance army after the dust settles and order the remaining forces to surrender.

    But that would be too smart for the Alliance.
    "Fixed" as they say.

  4. #144
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    You've taken a lot of editorial freedom with your description of Turalyon. He fought for peace and the preservation of Azeroth. He knocked Blackhand unconcious, routed the horde to the dark portal and followed them over to make sure the portal stayed closed rather than to wipe them out. Though in fairness, with how Jaina has been handled recently, you're probably right, he'd go murder crazy and eat babies for the light.
    He was finally able to wield the light because he basically came to the realization that "Orcs have no right to live on Azeroth."

    And then lump that on top of their allegiance with the forces that have since decimated his homeland and allow the orcs to traipse through there with impunity. That's basically spitting in the face of almost everything he fought to protect. And then imagine he learns of what Garrosh did? That'd just compound the notion that the orcs, and anyone they ally with, can't be trusted even to this day.


    Quote Originally Posted by PetersenIII View Post
    "Fixed" as they say.
    The only reason they aren't doing it is because showing the repercussions of that would mean we wouldn't get a new leveling zone, or something.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The Alliance would just have to sit back, let the horde and Kor'kron smash against eachother, then roll in the entirety of the Alliance army after the dust settles and order the remaining forces to surrender.
    Only problem with that theory is we now know that the rebellion wouldn't be able to breach the gates of Orgrimmar, which either means Orgrimmar stands until Garrosh is done with whatever he's doing with the Heart or the Kor'kron somehow lose their patience and give up their defensive position in a manner similar to "A Little Patience."

    The actual problem the Alliance is facing is since Garrosh picked up the Heart they're on crunch time; waiting on their end is not going to help anymore.

  6. #146
    Horde has badass characters? think you either live in WC3 or delusioning. We HAD badass champions, most of them just went MIA or killed.. I dare you to name 1, (just one) badass horde who will stay alive during and after patch 5.4 which the horde also will work with .. Good luck with that search!

  7. #147
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restors View Post
    Horde has badass characters? think you either live in WC3 or delusioning. We HAD badass champions, most of them just went MIA or killed.. I dare you to name 1, (just one) badass horde who will stay alive during and after patch 5.4 which the horde also will work with .. Good luck with that search!
    I don't believe Saurfang dies in 5.4. And people seem to consider Sylvannas bad ass for whatever reason.

    And apparently they're trying to make Gamon a non-joke character now.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  8. #148
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The Alliance would just have to sit back, let the horde and Kor'kron smash against eachother, then roll in the entirety of the Alliance army after the dust settles and order the remaining forces to surrender.

    But that would be too "mean" for the Alliance.
    Or without the Alliance, the rebellion gets crushed outright. Remember the part where the Darkspear rebellion can't even last a few days without Alliance support? Then without the Trolls to unite them, the Tauren/BElves/Forsaken stream in un-unified and similarly get crushed. Or some of them cave and never actually turn against Garrosh. Or the Horde factions in EK can sit back too and let the Alliance deal with Garrosh since that is his primary target.

    With everybody just sitting back on EK and the ineffective rebellion crushed, Garrosh can attack the NElves like he intended. Psure the Alliance wouldn't like that. The Tauren would be crushed too, but it's not like the Trolls would still be around to care and the BElves/Forsaken wouldn't really care either.

    Oh, ya got anudda plan? I got anudda plan, too. I let ya siege Orgrimmar on ya own. See how far ya get. An' once da city be filled wit' corpses, den me shadow hunters come in, we mop up what left, kill Kor'kron an Alliance alike. Give ya dead ta Sylvanas. Hmm! I save a lot a Darkspear lives wit' dis plan!
    Mmnn? You don't like? Then, we stay wit' da fist plan. We work together.
    We don't even have ta like each other.
    Gossip [Call his bluff] Why don't WE wait until YOU attack Orgrimmar, then mop up YOUR dead?
    <Vol'jin sees his opportunity slipping away. He holds up his hands.>
    Wait now, <race>! Orgrimmar be a fortress. My people, we ain't gonna crack dat nut on our own. How long we gonna last out here? Days? Weeks? Vol'jin can't say.
    You keep da supplies comin, an' I promise, more Kor'kron gonna die. Before ya troops even land! The blood bein' spilt ain't even ya own! Surely dat be worth a few crates of meat?

    Vol'jin's bluff only applies to his little band of Trolls. The rest of the Horde (especially in EK) can afford to sit back and wait for the Alliance to smash into Garrosh.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-02 at 08:32 PM.

  9. #149
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by GloriousBastard View Post
    I've been an Alliance for a long time, my loyalties have been to the High King and to the High King only. And I too believed that Blizzard favored the Horde, that is until, I sat back in my chair, and pondered upon the question: ''What if the Alliance just isn't interesting?'' And thus, I abandoned the Alliance and swore my eternal allegiance to the Horde, Thrall's Horde, that is.

    Roleplay nonesense aside though, below is a list of Alliance and Horde activity from Cata to MoP, which you can skip, of course:

    Horde Gilneas invaded by Horde
    Horde Silverwind Refuge captured by Horde
    Horde Southshore destroyed by Horde
    Horde Hillsbrad Fields destroyed by Horde
    Alliance Gilneas liberated by Alliance
    Alliance Forsaken Forward Command destroyed by Alliance
    Alliance Fenris Keep conquered by Alliance
    Horde Pyrewood Village destroyed by Horde
    Horde Ambermill captured by Horde
    Neutral Andorhal conquered by Alliance and Horde
    Horde Andorhal conquered completely by Horde
    Horde Azshara conquered by Horde
    Horde Talrendis Point assaulted by Horde
    Alliance Mor'shan Rampart assaulted by Alliance
    Alliance Warsong Lumbercamp assulted by the Alliance
    Alliance Shaol'Watha assulted by the Alliance
    Alliance Forsaken attack on Quel'Danil reppled
    Horde Northwatch Hold assaulted by Horde
    Alliance Honor's Stand captured by Alliance
    Alliance Camp Taurajo destroyed by Alliance
    Alliance Stonard assaulted by Alliance
    Horde Nethergarde Mines assaulted by Horde
    Horde Bael'dun Keep destroyed by Horde
    Horde Thal'darah Grove destroyed by Horde
    Alliance Shatterspear Vale destroyed by Alliance
    Horde Northwatch Hold captured by Horde
    Horde Fort Triumph destroyed by Horde
    Horde Theramore Isle destroyed by Horde
    Alliance Northwatch Hold recaptured by Alliance
    Horde Thunder Hold captured by Horde
    Horde Strongarm Airstrip destroyed by Horde
    Horde Scenic Overlook Camp destroyed by Horde
    Alliance Garrosh'ar Point destroyed by Alliance
    Alliance Twinspire Keep captured by Alliance
    Alliance Temple of the Red Crane liberated by Alliance
    Alliance Lion's Landing secured by Alliance
    Horde Domination Point secured by Horde
    Alliance Dalaran joins Alliance and expels Horde
    Alliance Destruction of the Divine Bell
    Darkspear Rebellion erupts in Echo Isles.
    Razor Hill captured by Vol'jin and Thunder Bluff liberated from Garrosh.
    Northern Barrens assaulted by the Alliance and the Darkspear Rebellion.
    Heart of Y'Shaarj resurrected by the Pools of Power, Vale of Eternal Blossoms scarred, Sha of Pride unleashed.
    Horde rebel and Alliance armada assaults the Bladefist Bay
    Siege of Orgrimmar begins

    As you can see, both are fairly equal. What the Alliance lacks, is character development, but how do you develop characters that are so mundane and generic? The game critic Yathzee touched upon this subject in one of his videos, he said, and I quote: ''The word "fantasy" is supposed to evoke any wondrous scenario the imagination can conjure, but for some reason we keep coming back to the elves and dwarves! Elves and dwarves, elves and dwarves, elves and motherfucking dwarves. Also wizards.'' See, the Alliance races have just gotten so painfully generic, almost every fantasy MMO I can think of has these races in them. And they are almost always the same: Humans are white knighty-bastards, dwarves are short bearded blacksmithy-bastards, elves are naturelovery-bastards, and gnomes are tinkery- sneakery-bastards, and these are just the norms we have begun to expect of these races, where as the races of the Horde are slightly more abstract and unique which gives developers more freedom when writing lore for them.

    TLDR: Horde are innovative and give writers more space and flexibility when writing, Alliance, not so much, their races are used in every fantasy almost and are always the same, dwarves are always blacksmiths for example.
    The draenei are preety unique yet they get no screentime.
    The worgen are rather unique, intelligent werewolves.
    The night elves, while elves, are fairly unique and they've only been turned to nature loving hippies in WoW, while in WC3 they weren't that.

    Bottom line is, it isn't the races that are boring, it's how they are handled. I could apply your reasoning to the Horde as well, in the end, just think about it, orcs, trolls, undead, elves, goblins, all these races are encountered in other games yet... Blizzard's making and storytelling made them stand apart from their similar races in other games. In the end, not many games can claim intelligent orcs that can go and care about diplomacy, can they?

    So I disagree on all your points.

    Also, to add, you pointed some victories the Alliance had that were not pointed in-game or that were turned later in the game. For example, Fenris Keep... as a low level forsaken you go there and lay waste to it. And some assaults of the Alliance are meaningless, for example Mosh'natal Rapart.... we don't win, we just go there and die and by the end of the Horde questchain, the tables are turned.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta View Post
    Then why the fuck do we have an expansion about crapdaren? Their presence there was the single least lore changing event in Warcraft history if you discount the fact that Anduin Lothar had constipation at some point in his life.
    ElvenArcher, is that you?

  11. #151
    Legendary! Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Everyone did in that low-poly era.
    Plus, when he was talking, it seemed his jaw was about to drop off at any time.

  12. #152
    If Alleria returns she'll be the biggest badass the Alliance ever had. She was an extremist anti-Horde, and when she returns to find her sister (Sylvanas) part of the Horde and her entire people (High Elves of Quel'Thalas) turned Horde, she'll turn batshit crazy and annihilate them all. She hasn't seen her homeland since Warcraft 2, imagine returning to find the shit that she's going to find.

    At least that's what would happen if Metzen hadn't become the total pussy he is today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pachycrocuta View Post
    ElvenArcher, is that you?
    If elvenarcher is an anti-pandaren person on these forums, newsflash: he's not the only one, we're millions. Stop trying to sound like you're an army of people who think pandaren are great and we're just a handful of people disliking their lore, it's pathetic.

  13. #153
    I don't believe Saurfang dies in 5.4. And people seem to consider Sylvannas bad ass for whatever reason.

    And apparently they're trying to make Gamon a non-joke character now.
    Sylvanas is considered badass as much as tyrande is... which is.. none...
    Gamon will ALWAYS be a joke!

    The days of badass is all over... If blizzard TRUELLY showed fauvorism towards horde, they wouldn't kill off dranosh, make garrosh go all crazy, make saurfang go back to draneor and weap over his dead son's body.
    blizzard is trying shove vol'jin as the next horde badass, but he will remain the lame he always been...

    I rather remember the good old days where Saurfang were strong orc , even during might of kalimdor.. Grom, rexxar, drek'thar, ..
    I rather remember Turalyon, Uther, Khadgar and the mighty Lothar.. Even Darion mograine... God I loved that character.

  14. #154
    I think Turalyon is Blizzard's best chance to give the Alliance a legendary character that they can both be proud of.

    He's a first generation paladin, so he represents an iconic Alliance concept (even if the Horde has access to paladins). He was also a major hero of the Second War who was crucial in winning the war.

    Finally, he carries the Great Royal Sword. Blizzard said they wanted the Alliance to have an equivalent to Doomhammer. This is it. It even clashed spectacularly with Doomhammer at a crucial point in the war. Yes, it was shattered and its wielder was killed... but then Turalyon picked up the pieces, rallied the Alliance in his memory, and won the war.

  15. #155
    I hope Turalyon proves to be that badass like he was before getting portaled away.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    On the subject of Tyrande:
    All Blizzard would have needed to do was say that the Horde forces were holding a band of Darnassus sentinels captive. The sentinels were the Alliance's main force in inland Krasarang, after all. BOOM, suddenly Tyrande becomes justified in her outrage.
    What Blizzard should have done there is swap roles on Tyrande and Varian, with Varian being rash and Tyrande doing the "lure them out"-thing, that would have accomplished three much-needed things: it would have made it an actual trial for the "high king", in so doing show Varian's character development in-game, and Tyrande wouldn't have come off as utterly retarded, but it's too late to fix that trainwreck now...

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Archodas View Post
    It's fucking urgent. I enjoy the story and progression in lore in the game maybe more than anything. And as a 5 year long devoted Alliance player, I gotta say that it's time we got a TRUE badass Alliance character.

    When Cata started, I had this delusion that Darius Crowley (remember him?) was going to be this long awaited kick ass mofo. First of all he was a worgen with an eye patch, which automatically opens a door for him, and second of all, the NAME. I just think it's such a badass name.

    But seriously, with all the Horde favoritism going on right now, and let's not kid ourselves, Blizz PREFER Horde, the Alliance need now more than ever a character to be proud of and get behind. I think our best bet right now is that Varian is going to turn around and become a FUCKING SLAYER, but since Wrath I have been waiting for the moment that put him on top of the food chain. It never came.

    SO PLEASE BLIZZARD, in 5.4, in 5.5, in the next expansion, ANY TIME SOON, just for once look at the Alliance as equal to Horde from an Alliance player's point of view. Add a badass Alliance character and show us that you care about us too.
    Horde's badass is dying, and you're keeping varian the chin wrynn. I think you came out ahead.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta View Post
    If Alleria returns she'll be the biggest badass the Alliance ever had. She was an extremist anti-Horde, and when she returns to find her sister (Sylvanas) part of the Horde and her entire people (High Elves of Quel'Thalas) turned Horde, she'll turn batshit crazy and annihilate them all. She hasn't seen her homeland since Warcraft 2, imagine returning to find the shit that she's going to find.

    At least that's what would happen if Metzen hadn't become the total pussy he is today.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If elvenarcher is an anti-pandaren person on these forums, newsflash: he's not the only one, we're millions. Stop trying to sound like you're an army of people who think pandaren are great and we're just a handful of people disliking their lore, it's pathetic.
    Yes, because MILLIONS of people, and not just ElvenArcher, call Pandaren "crapdaren" and Pandaria "crapdaria". Right.

  19. #159
    you have malfurion best badass character ever on par with thrall, blizzard really need to show them more often and in more decisive way
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by bufferunderrun View Post
    you have malfurion best badass character ever on par with thrall, blizzard really need to show them more often and in more decisive way
    The most badass thing malfurion ever did was bitch illidan out for protecting the planet from demons. Seriously, that guy is a tool. Illidan could have been the alliance's badass, or just about anyone at this point. Problem is you're the white knights, who aren't allowed to do anything morally ambiguous, because when you do you get alliance fans raging that Dalaran purge was not a fist pump and how dare they write that etc etc. Obviously some people enjoyed it, but most of what you read is crying that jaina dun gone crazy.

    I mean, its almost like Garrosh, I mean. Who'da thought that at some point characters can go wrong, it just means we'll be killing her as well someday, I hope.

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