Poll: Will Lordaeron be restored?

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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I would be more inclined to believe you if you didn't spout off RPG books as references for her being alive.
    The truth is we don't know her fate.

    She may be dead. She may be alive. She may be Scourge or Forsaken. She may be with the EBon Blade of a free agent somewhere.

    We just don't know.

    The novel Arthas hints she is dead...but without a body - heck, even with a body since we have Resurrection available - that's far from a definitive answer.

    My own thoughts are:

    a: that Calia is too interesting a story for Blizzard to just ignore her.
    b: that Calia as Forsaken adds nothing to the game. Since you can't change the character of the Undead, all she'd be would be Sylvanas. But the Forsaken don't really we her anything, never mind their allegiance.
    c: that Blizzard will get the biggest bang in bringing her back if they bring her back alive, and for the Alliance. Maybe not rabidly anti-undead...but still pro-Alliance. Both sides get a workout then. Make her neutral and she just ends up on the sidelines. Make her Forsaken and she is just going to be Sylvanas. Make her Alliance and she can act as means to get the Alliance and Forsaken stories moving.

    However...if she is alive, she is running out of places to hide. Short of finding her marooned or imprisoned somewhere, finding her stranded in Kul Tiras is going to be the last way to really bring her into play. Blizzard does seem to want to do something with her though, so I don't think we'll find her dead.

    Could she come back as a villain? It seems doubtful...but not impossible. Thing is, the Scourge are on the run, the Forsaken "aren't" villains and the Crusade are decimated...so as a Villain, she'd likely be fairly weak unless she's acting the patsy for someone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Varian is clearly delusional or just ranting gibberish against the Horde. Just finished killing the apothecary responsible for horrible acts against humans and starts spouting off crap about orcs in a kingdom that doesn't belong to him. All his soldiers are from Stormwind.
    Unless they are Lordaeranian refugees. Also...lets not forget a good many people from Stormwind grew up in Lordaeron and can very easily see it as home.

    And he continues to rant about orcs later too, despite this whole incident being because of rogue Forsaken who sided with the Legion
    Who was able to do what he did because the Orcs did nothing to stop them. Nor does the rogue Forsaken excuse the little fact that everything in Undercity was ordered by Sylvanas, carried out with her permission and involvement and took place over several years while being part of the Horde.

    And is it ranting? Or trash talk designed to inspire his men and make Thrall and his Orcs angry? He was a gladiator you know.


    Not to mention he went there with the sole intention of capturing UC for the Alliance even after learning that Thrall was going in to punish those responsible.
    The other aim was to kill Putress

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-09-09 at 08:59 PM.

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Unless they are Lordaeranian refugees. Also...lets not forget a good many people from Stormwind grew up in Lordaeron and can very easily see it as home.
    It is clearly not their kingdom. Varian even shouts that it's for Stormwind.
    King Varian Wrynn says: ATTACK! FOR STORMWIND! FOR BOLVAR! FOR THE ALLIANCE!
    Doesn't say anything about it being for Lordaeron.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Even Jaina says Varian is mentally unstable from emotional distress.
    Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: I will deliver this information to King Wrynn, Thrall, but...
    Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: Bolvar was like a brother to him. In the King's absence, Bolvar kept the Alliance united. He found strength for our people in our darkest hours. He watched over Anduin, raising him as his own.
    Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: I fear that the rage will consume him, Thrall. I remain hopeful that reason will prevail, but we must prepare for the worst... for war.


    Which it does when Varian flies off the handle and starts spouting nonsense.

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    It is clearly not their kingdom. Varian even shouts that it's for Stormwind.
    He and his people were taken in by Lordaeran. They spent years there. He grew up there. As did many of his people. And many Lordaeranians now live in othe Alliance territories.

    You don't think it possible the speech was intended to be more emotional than something to be taken literally? That having grown up there he might have developed an attachment to the kingdom?

    You think the speech was intended to be taken purely in a literal manner, with no room for interpretation whatsoever?

    And no - Jaina doesn't say he is mentally unstable. She is afraid that his rage will consume him, Not concerned that he is currently unsound in mind.

    EJL

  4. #484
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    Lordearon is occupied by it's rightful owners. The people who lived and died in the kingdom.

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    He and his people were taken in by Lordaeran. They spent years there. He grew up there. As did many of his people. And many Lordaeranians now live in othe Alliance territories.

    You don't think it possible the speech was intended to be more emotional than something to be taken literally? That having grown up there he might have developed an attachment to the kingdom?

    You think the speech was intended to be taken purely in a literal manner, with no room for interpretation whatsoever?
    You're the one taking it literally to mean that he and his troops are from Lordaeron because he said "our kingdom"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    And no - Jaina doesn't say he is mentally unstable. She is afraid that his rage will consume him, Not concerned that he is currently unsound in mind.
    When someone is consumed by rage they are of sound mind?

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    You're the one taking it literally to mean that he and his troops are from Lordaeron because he said "our kingdom"...
    Lordearon is the spiritual home of The Alliance, human soldiers still cry "For Lordearon" in battle, humans still use the crest of Lordearon as symbol for their people. The original Alliance was called "The Alliance of Lordearon" and at it's peak it was the greatest human kingdom in existence. It's where the vast majority of human history and activity over the years has taken place. It's no surprise the human King sees it as a human kingdom and would want to restore it. To make it simple, think of Jerusalem, many different people claim it, all have valid reasons.

  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletnips View Post
    Lordearon is the spiritual home of The Alliance, human soldiers still cry "For Lordearon" in battle, humans still use the crest of Lordearon as symbol for their people. The original Alliance was called "The Alliance of Lordearon" and at it's peak it was the greatest human kingdom in existence. It's where the vast majority of human history and activity over the years has taken place. It's no surprise the human King sees it as a human kingdom and would want to restore it. To make it simple, think of Jerusalem, many different people claim it, all have valid reasons.
    Interesting, because Varian doesn't cry "For Lordaeron" he cries "For Stormwind". I would like a source on these human soldiers who cry "For Lordaeron". Also, the only people who use the crest of Lordaeron is Theramore (well, not anymore). Not even the Scarlet Crusade uses the crest of Lordaeron outside fanart and the RPG.

    Arathor was the greatest human kingdom in existence. The vast majority of human history is tied to Arathor. It's only briefly that Lordaeron was the center. Stromguard is the Jerusalem analogue for humans.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-09 at 10:25 PM.

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by hamsterbom View Post
    Only thing I can see stopping it is that the forsaken are living there, restoring it would take time but could be done.
    You just try and get that smell out of the carpets and drapes.

  9. #489
    Herald of the Titans Northem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    They specifically mention the hook from the RPG, which isn't canon so the hook itself isn't canon.
    I'm sick of hearing that excuse.

    Although the RPG books were declared non canonical, that does not mean that they lack of any representative value.

    The reason by that the RPG books ceased to be canonical is simply because Blizzard did not want to have their hands tied creatively speaking, that is, they wanted to have total control over the lore of the Warcraft universe.

    But that does not mean that the entire contents of the RPG books is useless, but simply just the parts that conflict with the interests of Blizzard.
    In this way, Blizzard will consider the contents of the RPG books, changing what they do not like but keeping what they like themselves.

    To put it another way, what is narrated in RPG books will not be canon, but it has more value than any story we can invent, that is, the RPG books should not be ignored, but interpreted.
    Last edited by Northem; 2013-09-09 at 10:36 PM.

  10. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    I'm sick of hearing that excuse.

    Although the RPG books were declared non canonical, that does not mean that they lack of any representative value.

    The reason by that the RPG books*ceased to be canonical is simply because Blizzard did not want to have their hands tied creatively speaking, that is, they wanted to have total control over the lore of the Warcraft universe.

    But that does not mean that the entire contents of the RPG books is useless, but simply just the parts that conflict with the interests of Blizzard.
    In this way, Blizzard will consider the contents of the RPG books, changing what they do not like but keeping what they like themselves.
    Doesn't matter what the reasons were, RPG books are not canon. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    To put it another way, what is narrated in RPG books will not be canon, but it has more value than any story we can invent, that is, the RPG books should not be ignored, but interpreted.
    Lor'themar's short story says otherwise.

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Doesn't matter what the reasons were, RPG books are not canon. Period.
    What I mean is that Blizzard will make canonical the parts of the RPG books that interest them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Lor'themar's short story says otherwise.
    The reason why an amateur story has become official lore is simply due to the favoritism that Blizzard has for the Horde.

    I myself could write a story about Calia as heroine of the Alliance, but it never would have success.

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    What I mean is that Blizzard will make canonical the parts of the RPG books that interest them.
    If you didn't stop reading my post after the first sentence you would have seen that I said pmuch that exact same thing.
    "That doesn't mean Blizzard can't canonize the hook and develop Calia's story further."

    But until they do that, it might as well be fanfiction.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-09 at 11:09 PM.

  13. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    You're the one taking it literally to mean that he and his troops are from Lordaeron because he said "our kingdom"...
    No - I'm asking if you don't think he might be speaking emotionally, given that he grew up there and that Lordaeron,a s home of the Alliance, has a special place in the hearts of that faction. You seem to be putting forward the argument that he is ranting and a raving lunatic because he sees Lordaeron as his based upon your literal reading of his text. However, if you allow for a more emotive, less literal understanding then the supposition that he is raving mad - which was the general thrust of the point you were making - kinda fades.

    When someone is consumed by rage they are of sound mind?
    It means they are angry; it doesn't mean deranged, insane or mentally unbalanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Interesting, because Varian doesn't cry "For Lordaeron" he cries "For Stormwind". I would like a source on these human soldiers who cry "For Lordaeron". Also, the only people who use the crest of Lordaeron is Theramore (well, not anymore). Not even the Scarlet Crusade uses the crest of Lordaeron outside fanart and the RPG.
    Easiest and quickest place for you to find it? Wrathgate cinematic.

    Arathor was the greatest human kingdom in existence. The vast majority of human history is tied to Arathor. It's only briefly that Lordaeron was the center. Stromguard is the Jerusalem analogue for humans.
    Humanity. Yes. The Alliance? Its home is Lordaeron.

    EJL

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by wooootles View Post
    If it's helping the Alliance or hurting the Horde it absolutely won't happen
    Oh please.. Like Blizzard cares enough to have a faction bias.

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    I'm sick of hearing that excuse.

    Although the RPG books were declared non canonical, that does not mean that they lack of any representative value.
    Yes, it does. I'm sure there are plenty of ideas in there that Blizzard may end up using...but overall, they are non-canon. Will Blizzard canonise the story with Trevor? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

    We don't know. And we can only speculate if and what will be made canonical.

    Calia, as a story element, seems to interest Blizzard. They seem to like the RPG story and the potential plot hook. Calias return would also help invigorate the stories of BOTH the Alliance and Forsaken if handled right.

    But at the same time, we can't really count on anything.

    EJL

  16. #496
    need to start with orc's and the drainea or whatever, they are illegal aliens taking our jobs!

  17. #497
    The reason Lor'themar's story is now Ascended Fanon is because it's pretty damn good. It's polished and well-paced and not prone to a lot of the silly failures of most fanfic.

    But let's point to something absurd -- how can anyone say it's a sign of "faction bias" in favor of Lor'themar/Blood Elves/Horde that it's the only leader that Blizzard couldn't be arsed to write their own story for?

    I think Calia returning would make some sense, but I kinda like to think of her as probably being happily rid of royalty, even if not happy about how. In Arthas, she didn't seem to like at all the idea of being married off as a political gesture, for instance. If she comes back, have her have gone all common, maybe a hunter or rogue type. Or a prototype for Bard Make the idea of leading an attempt to reclaim Lordaeron something that is in and of itself a source of conflict for her.

  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    No - I'm asking if you don't think he might be speaking emotionally, given that he grew up there and that Lordaeron,a s home of the Alliance, has a special place in the hearts of that faction. You seem to be putting forward the argument that he is ranting and a raving lunatic because he sees Lordaeron as his based upon your literal reading of his text. However, if you allow for a more emotive, less literal understanding then the supposition that he is raving mad - which was the general thrust of the point you were making - kinda fades.

    It means they are angry; it doesn't mean deranged, insane or mentally unbalanced.
    He is consumed by rage, that is a hell of a lot more than just being angry. He is lost in his rage. Funny that you would use the phrase "raving mad".

    And using hyperbole to rouse his troops doesn't make it any more true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Humanity. Yes. The Alliance? Its home is Lordaeron.
    Guy I was replying to was talking about the original Alliance and humanity. Both of which are Arathor. Yes, Lordaeron is important, but historically not nearly as important as Arathor for the cultural heritage of humanity.

    The Alliance of Lordaeron wasn't even led or brought together by Lordaeron, it was led by Lothar. They just named it after Lordaeron because that's where they convened.

    "Then I hereby declare the founding of the Alliance of Lordaeron! We shall stand together as one, as our ancestors did long ago, in the Arathi Empire." The others nodded and Terenas continued. "And it is only fitting, then, that our commander should hail from that ancient ruling stock. We the kings of the Alliance do hereby appoint Lord Anduin Lothar, Champion of Stormwind, as our Supreme Commander!"
    --Tides of Darkness

    It was all about Arathor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Easiest and quickest place for you to find it? Wrathgate cinematic.
    Good catch. That is just 1 soldier while they were sieging the person who destroyed Lordaeron. That was about vengeance, not about reclaiming the kingdom.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-10 at 12:01 AM.

  19. #499
    Would be nice if the Forsaken even took care of the place. Lordaeron City itself is a shambles, and Undercity isn't really much better. Have some pride and look after it!

    Mind you, Silvermoon needs an overhaul first. That place is kind of depressing as it currently is.

  20. #500
    No.

    Lordaeron belongs to its people, who are now called The Forsaken.

    The Alliance has as much a claim to Lordaeron as they have to Quel'Thalas, that is, ZERO.

    And I say this as an Alliance player.

    BTW, if Blizzard got drunk and decided to give the Alliance Lordaeron back, what would happen to Undead players? Are they forced to change race or delete their characters?

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