[SPOILERS]it's official, jaina is evil!

[Ladey Gags]

They say an image says more than a thousand words. I find that to be true.

I laughed. Amazing, and so true...

[Golden Yak]

Should be interesting to see where this goes. It's a shame to see a noble soul go bad, but we saw it before with Kael'thas as well. A mage with a heart of hatred... sounds like the perfect pawn for an enemy like the Legion to manipulate.

Although she might fall under Wrathion's influence instead - he was hoping for the same thing she wanted.

[Deleted]

Bad story telling: Here is my idea for Patch 5.5 (and likely Blizzards)

Garrosh is cleansed of pride/corruption and is being on trial by the Shado-Pan. Eventually after trial he is found not guility because of him being possessed or something like that (a stupid reason). Jania then gets annoyed because of what Garrosh did. She attempts to kill him herself but is stopped by the Pandaren for unleashing her emotions. In the commotion while they are protecting Garrosh, Jania goes and attacks Vol'Jin/Lor'Themar and kills/incapacitates him. And then also in the commotion Garrosh escapes as he is actually evil and escapes to the Outland (BL Foreshadow). This leads into anothner non-BL expansion with Garrosh's return and BL after that.

There isn't going to be a 5.5. 5.4 is the last patch of this expansion.

[IronArms]

Well there is speculation there might be one more tier before the next expac :Z but I would hardly count on the whole Garrosh thing, Blizzard outright stated, he was not possessed or controlled..he was using everything as his own free will. That was all him...

[kendro1200]

Just because of that she is evil?

You ever stop to think that she learned from her history of trying to keep the peace? Her city got obliterated and now she knows she cant trust them.

She's gone for peace with the Horde three times now, at great personal cost all three times. First time she lost her father, second time she lost an entire city with some of her closest friends inside it, and the third time she lost her sense of safety and any ability to trust those who do not implicitly side with the Alliance. Baine is the only member of the Horde that has shown her any form of good will in years. Imagine trying to keep two toddlers from fighting, one toddler you're related to by blood and one toddler is related to someone you worked with once. The toddler that is related to you at first is pretty grumpy, but starts to settle down. Then the toddler that isn't related to you, and was earlier playing the victim picks up a pair of scissors and starts cutting up the other's clothes and slices the back of your calves.
The analogy actually drastically underplays what actually happened, but you could see why you'd be less inclined to be sympathetic or even kind to the kid that just ran behind you and caused you injury when you tried protect them out of a sense of obligation for long past experiences.
Jaina is definitely dark at the moment, but she's not really too different from Tyrande at the moment, and she's still nowhere near as dark or plainly evil as Sylvannas. We can certainly see Jaina going rogue again like in the purging of Dalaran when she disagrees with Varian in the future. What she's learning over the past couple of years is that she can't trust Varian to do anything she wants. Entirely plausible that we stop her from dropping a mana bomb somewhere on the Horde if Lorthemar or Vol'jin don't give her a hug and a kitten at some point soon.

[Yarathir]

Just because of that she is evil?

You ever stop to think that she learned from her history of trying to keep the peace? Her city got obliterated and now she knows she cant trust them.

Thanks. It's hard to find people who actually don't scream bloody murder because Jaina doesn't love their Horde.



Jaina is actually very realistic. The shit she went through to broker peace between the Horde and the Alliance just to have the orcs piss on her face in rebuttal and destroy things that are dear to her, and she's still not justified in disliking the Horde or wanting to see them pay for what they have done?


Meanwhile, we have Sylvanas plaguing entire towns and cities of innocents for fuck all reason, and she gets a free pass because she is the waifu of the fanbase.



Stay classy, WoW subscriber base.

[Deleted]

Can you really blame her? Theramore got fucked over by Garrosh's mana bomb which killed millions and messed around with her head. And during the scenario where you help her disarm it, the Captain fella there gives her no mercy so she pretty much rages at him and tells him garrosh will have blood.

If my home town got bombed by orcs I'd wanna murder them all as well.

[Yarathir]

Words fail me to explain how badly I want this =D

(Even though I know its unlikely, if anything, Dalaran would sooner see how batshit insane she is and excommunicate her or something)

Funny to see you pull this faction BS a bit after you made a whole thread whining about how how you should be neutral and just enjoy the story. And bla bla how the Alliance are whiners for wanting certain characters of the Horde dead/locations retaken. Now I see you hating on an Alliance character and wishing for that character to be a raid boss when there are a thousand more worthy of that status.


Very funny.



Hope to see the Banshee Queen's head impaled on a spike very soon. Or maybe she can join Garrosh in prison so they can both duke it out day after day until they die.

[Stormdash]

Thanks. It's hard to find people who actually don't scream bloody murder because Jaina doesn't love their Horde.



Jaina is actually very realistic. The shit she went through to broker peace between the Horde and the Alliance just to have the orcs piss on her face in rebuttal and destroy things that are dear to her, and she's still not justified in disliking the Horde or wanting to see them pay for what they have done?


Meanwhile, we have Sylvanas plaguing entire towns and cities of innocents for fuck all reason, and she gets a free pass because she is the waifu of the fanbase.



Stay classy, WoW subscriber base.

Is there anybody on the Alliance side of that room in the cinematic whose life, let alone their personality or opinion or friendship, that Sylvanas has ever valued in the slightest bit? That's the difference. The reverse is not true for Jaina. It's hard to see Jaina playing hardline "kill 'em all" about her Third War era allies, in particular Thrall. Sylvanas? Sure, she's nothing to Jaina. Lor'themar? Hey guy, it was nice that time we didn't kill each other; she'd see him dead, too. But Baine? Vol'jin? Thrall? She is seriously the person who would see Varian march across the room and demand the impossible from them knowing it would mean a fight to the death, even as the person who actually wronged her had already been marched out of the room in chains? No, that's not a sympathetic character anymore. That is a character that's reached a place as cold and almost as dark as Arthas himself was getting before Frostmourne.

[kramjam]

jania was fucking awesome

[Gungrir]

Jaina will call in the Burning Legion in 6.0 and in exchange she ask's Sargaras to dispose all of the Horde.

MAJOR SPOILERS RIGHT HERE!!!

[foxHeart]

I think what's really important here (that most people are missing) is the way Jaina says what she says. It's borderline Wormtongue from LOTR - whispering in Varian's ear with this sinister smile on her face, trying to coerce her leader into doing sketchy things. That's the hint, not that she wants retribution, which btw is understandable.

[Yarathir]

Is there anybody on the Alliance side of that room in the cinematic whose life, let alone their personality or opinion or friendship, that Sylvanas has ever valued in the slightest bit? That's the difference. The reverse is not true for Jaina. It's hard to see Jaina playing hardline "kill 'em all" about her Third War era allies, in particular Thrall. Sylvanas? Sure, she's nothing to Jaina. Lor'themar? Hey guy, it was nice that time we didn't kill each other; she'd see him dead, too. But Baine? Vol'jin? Thrall? She is seriously the person who would see Varian march across the room and demand the impossible from them knowing it would mean a fight to the death, even as the person who actually wronged her had already been marched out of the room in chains? No, that's not a sympathetic character anymore. That is a character that's reached a place as cold and almost as dark as Arthas himself was getting before Frostmourne.

No. It's a character that has marched through shit to defend a Horde that would fling extra shit at her for trying to show them in a redeeming light. That would make her look like a fool in front of her king through her promises that they would act rational, and subsequently doing the opposite. Those that took away all that she treasured and savored.



It's a character that is sick of the Horde. Fed up, done. And that is justified. Your whole point is that, just because she has reached a point where she -hates- the Horde and would rather see them undone, she's equal to one that raised millions upon millions of dead and controlled them to overrun the world to create an even vaster army. Equal to the one that employed many scientists to conduct horrific experiments using the corpses of mothers and children alike (Thaddius)?


I do hope you're kidding. Sincerely.

[Kiqjaq]

Can you really blame her? Theramore got fucked over by Garrosh's mana bomb which killed millions and messed around with her head. And during the scenario where you help her disarm it, the Captain fella there gives her no mercy so she pretty much rages at him and tells him garrosh will have blood.

If my home town got bombed by orcs I'd wanna murder them all as well.

Can I blame someone for wanting to rape and pillage? Yeah I totally can. But she has a decent backstory for it so at least we can see how she got there. Having reasons for being evil don't justify any crap you might want to pull though.

It's a bit like Sylvanas in the sense that, yeah she's undeniably getting to be pretty evil, but I can still see her reasoning for it. i.e. she's an actually decently developed villain rather than a cartoon one
(Well... decent by WoW standards at least)

[Flutterguy]

I dunno, I was aroused by her speech.

[Ellixen]

No. It's a character that has marched through shit to defend a Horde that would fling extra shit at her for trying to show them in a redeeming light. That would make her look like a fool in front of her king through her promises that they would act rational, and subsequently doing the opposite. Those that took away all that she treasured and savored.



It's a character that is sick of the Horde. Fed up, done. And that is justified. Your whole point is that, just because she has reached a point where she -hates- the Horde and would rather see them undone, she's equal to one that raised millions upon millions of dead and controlled them to overrun the world to create an even vaster army. Equal to the one that employed many scientists to conduct horrific experiments using the corpses of mothers and children alike (Thaddius)?


I do hope you're kidding. Sincerely.

Umm, Sylvanas didn't always hate the living and wasn't always all batshit raise the dead and make plagues but that changed once Arthas resurfaced... soooo. why wouldn't Jaina change in the same manner with this situation? Just because you like someone doesn't mean they can't be evil.

Also the HORDE didn't do shit to her, 1 man with his chosen army did. Varian knows that, the rest of the alliance knows that, It's just Jaina that refuses to see it.

[ReleaseDay]

Soooo, this means Vol'jin is the new warchief? -_- Terrible news, such a bad choice.

[Mihalik]

Jaina for High Queen!

This. I never liked Jaina before, not even in WC3, she was always too...goody two-shoes to the point of politically stupid. All that power and knowledge used for nothing. If anything we can thank Garrosh for giving us the Kirin Tor back and a Jaina who doesn't just talks, but walks the walk too.

[Yarathir]

Umm, Sylvanas didn't always hate the living and wasn't always all batshit raise the dead and make plagues but that changed once Arthas resurfaced... soooo. why wouldn't Jaina change in the same manner with this situation? Just because you like someone doesn't mean they can't be evil.

Also the HORDE didn't do shit to her, 1 man with his chosen army did. Varian knows that, the rest of the alliance knows that, It's just Jaina that refuses to see it.

So why is Sylvanas plaguing entire towns and cities to ooze now? Probably because of her selfpity, because of her poor fate at the hands of Arthas Menethil. Because she is now a spiteful bitch who needs to screw over others to feel a semblance of happiness/satisfaction in that husk of a dark heart of hers.


Don't even compare that to Jaina who has a valid reason to do what she does/say what she says. Maybe if you tried to put yourself in a character's shoes for once, they'd stop screaming "omg jaina not passive anymore! RAID BOSS OMG EVIL"


And yes, the HORDE did do shit. All over the years. Theramore was just the drop that made the bucket explode. And only Baine tried to avoid what happened at Theramore. The majority was co-operating, so stop using Garrosh as the scapegoat for anything bad the Horde has done. Jaina even tried to seal that hatred away in 5.1, but she was subsequently stabbed in the back by the same faction she tried to forgive.

[Stormdash]

No. It's a character that has marched through shit to defend a Horde that would fling extra shit at her for trying to show them in a redeeming light. That would make her look like a fool in front of her king through her promises that they would act rational, and subsequently doing the opposite. Those that took away all that she treasured and savored.



It's a character that is sick of the Horde. Fed up, done. And that is justified. Your whole point is that, just because she has reached a point where she -hates- the Horde and would rather see them undone, she's equal to one that raised millions upon millions of dead and controlled them to overrun the world to create an even vaster army. Equal to the one that employed many scientists to conduct horrific experiments using the corpses of mothers and children alike (Thaddius)?


I do hope you're kidding. Sincerely.

No, I'm totally serious, and mostly hoping this isn't how you would judge this kind of personal betrayal in real life. She's basically decided that Thrall, Baine, Vol'jin deserve to die. Thrall, FFS. I mean, I get that people have faction tunnel vision, but if you have been awake in Blizzard's product at any point over the last 15 years or so, that's been a pretty substantial personal friendship. From that to "I want you dead" due to the actions of a third party is... sociopathic, to be sure, but just vain on top of that.