5.4 outcome, my thoughts (obvious spoilers)

[Frozen Death Knight]

You also forgot that time when he compared people who like evil characters in games/books to "punks who kill and torture homeless".

Honestly, I don't care. Arthas is basically my favourite character in fiction and there is not a darn thing he can do about it.

[khalltusk]

Obviously he's Malganis.

He is Krillan or w/e its spelt from DBZ, guys a punch bag.

[Nomial17]

I dont understand what people are unhappy about. The cinematic ended perfectly. Varian made his point, he said "we have the power to stand against you, we've done it with you, dont mess with us or you'll be on the wrong side of our blade." Now why is this a problem to people? Alliance got a pretty cool moment there, Varian made it sound as if he is completely aware that the alliance has the ability to destroy anything (or as he thinks). A good portion of this expansion has been on Varian's development as a king, and as a King he realized that like himself, Vol'jin had a group of people who had been through much suffering. TAKING THE ROAD OF A NOBLE KING...he decided to end the fighting.

And honestly, why do people really think that just because they invaded Org and took out Garrosh's army that they'd be able to fight the actual horde and win still. Theyve been bloodied, beaten, bruised, and worst of all their armies come from seas. If Vol'jin and the rest of the horde had decided it, they probably could have cleaned up while Sylvanas made new armies from the corpses...I'm thinking Varian took this into account at some point in his thinking.
(Not saying the horde is better, just saying on their grounds its probably not the best time to tell the Horde youre going to ending them right there too...Varian probably would have never left that room to even make the final order.)

[Maxilian]

Well... i don't agree with you Trassk, i really like these outcome

Thrall: It showed the real Thrall, the one who wants peace, who loves his people, but that will fight and destroy anyone who hurt his family (the horde), and by giving Vol'jin the mantle, he showed what he have been saying..., he feels responsable of what Garrosh did, that's why he doesn't feel worthy to be the warchief once again...

Orcs: Is true that they have always been the face of the horde, but i actually like these outcome, cause these may bring us to a more horde vs alliance theme and not an orc vs humans...

Varian: I agree with you in Varian, i hated him in the beggining, as much as i hated Garrosh, but then he changed... in a good way

Jaina: I like her development.... why? cause it shows how the destruction of theramore affected her, is true that the way she acted is not the right way, but it showed us how traumatic was the events of theramore for her.

Garrosh: i wanted to see him dead, but is not a bad finale for him...

[Zuben]

Vol'jin can become better than he's been so far, but when I picture heavily armored orc troops with their battle-axes and demolishers led by... a nearly naked troll with paint plastered all over his face? That's a silly image.

The sense of pride I had for my faction is depleted. At this very moment my Horde doesn't feel cool. I don't know how it'll be in the future, but right now I feel like my character should canonically die in Siege of Orgrimmar, just to not feel this sense of disbelief and loss I feel now.

[Nomial17]

Vol'jin can become better than he's been so far, but when I picture heavily armored orc troops with their battle-axes and demolishers led by... a nearly naked troll with paint plastered all over his face? That's a silly image.

The sense of pride I had for my faction is depleted. At this very moment my Horde doesn't feel cool. I don't know how it'll be in the future, but right now I feel like my character should canonically die in Siege of Orgrimmar, just to not feel this sense of disbelief and loss I feel now.

Have you tried picturing a heavily armored horde led by Vol'jin? The horde isnt just orcs...

[Trassk]

Vol'jin can become better than he's been so far, but when I picture heavily armored orc troops with their battle-axes and demolishers led by... a nearly naked troll with paint plastered all over his face? That's a silly image.

The sense of pride I had for my faction is depleted. At this very moment my Horde doesn't feel cool. I don't know how it'll be in the future, but right now I feel like my character should canonically die in Siege of Orgrimmar, just to not feel this sense of disbelief and loss I feel now.

this pretty much how I feel about this.

As someone whos been an orc fan of wow since the beginning, this is the most disjointed, fucked up resolution I can think of. Theres no pride to be found in orcs after this, and it just demises there quality in the story. When its been about the orcs story and overcoming who they were, this just removes that from it, it cuts the orcs out of the equasion altogether.
Saying 'its about the horde now not just the orcs' only works if the orcs got something out of this too. They didn't, so many of them have been killed, they don't have a warchief anymore, and it just feels like blizzard wanted to shit all over the orcs, making the most nonsensical conclusion possible.

[Deleted]

this pretty much how I feel about this.

As someone whos been an orc fan of wow since the beginning, this is the most disjointed, fucked up resolution I can think of. Theres no pride to be found in orcs after this, and it just demises there quality in the story. When its been about the orcs story and overcoming who they were, this just removes that from it, it cuts the orcs out of the equasion altogether.
Saying 'its about the horde now not just the orcs' only works if the orcs got something out of this too. They didn't, so many of them have been killed, they don't have a warchief anymore, and it just feels like blizzard wanted to shit all over the orcs, making the most nonsensical conclusion possible.

The orcs themselves didn't get anything (although actually going by his "I will follow " line you might be getting Thrall back.) but the Orc fandom gets a metric tonne of great story potential to enjoy.

[pateuvasiliu]

Who told you trolls replace orcs?

You'd be wrong. Orcs vastly outnumber the troll population.

Just because Vol'Jin is a troll doesn't mean trolls are the #1 race.

[Deleted]

I dont understand what people are unhappy about. The cinematic ended perfectly. Varian made his point, he said "we have the power to stand against you, we've done it with you, dont mess with us or you'll be on the wrong side of our blade." Now why is this a problem to people? Alliance got a pretty cool moment there, Varian made it sound as if he is completely aware that the alliance has the ability to destroy anything (or as he thinks). A good portion of this expansion has been on Varian's development as a king, and as a King he realized that like himself, Vol'jin had a group of people who had been through much suffering. TAKING THE ROAD OF A NOBLE KING...he decided to end the fighting.

And honestly, why do people really think that just because they invaded Org and took out Garrosh's army that they'd be able to fight the actual horde and win still. Theyve been bloodied, beaten, bruised, and worst of all their armies come from seas. If Vol'jin and the rest of the horde had decided it, they probably could have cleaned up while Sylvanas made new armies from the corpses...I'm thinking Varian took this into account at some point in his thinking.
(Not saying the horde is better, just saying on their grounds its probably not the best time to tell the Horde youre going to ending them right there too...Varian probably would have never left that room to even make the final order.)

Here's the thing: In any other medium Varian's threat would have been pretty badass. But here in an MMO with two playable factions, it's not because we know that there's no way he can possibly follow through with it. The fist-pump moment is ruined by our meta awareness of the story. What we needed instead was a way for Varian to demonstrate his power through actions (not words.) that still maintain the status quo.

Now fortunately as this is just a 2 minute cinematic things are salvageable for 5.5 and beyond. But it leaves a sour taste in my mouth that makes me wonder whether blizzard are actually going to follow up on their promises of reclaiming Gilneas etc.

[Deleted]

this pretty much how I feel about this.

As someone whos been an orc fan of wow since the beginning, this is the most disjointed, fucked up resolution I can think of. Theres no pride to be found in orcs after this, and it just demises there quality in the story. When its been about the orcs story and overcoming who they were, this just removes that from it, it cuts the orcs out of the equasion altogether.
Saying 'its about the horde now not just the orcs' only works if the orcs got something out of this too. They didn't, so many of them have been killed, they don't have a warchief anymore, and it just feels like blizzard wanted to shit all over the orcs, making the most nonsensical conclusion possible.

Just because Vol´jin is now the warchief does not mean that the orcs suddenly vanish or get banned out of the Horde. Thrall will probably act as the Orc leader and Vol´jin as the overall warchief and I don´t see anything that´s bad about this outcome.

"Oh noez Orcs have no warchief so I must make up that they get completely neglected in the future content" That´s your line of thought and it´s just wrong. The Orcs are still around, Thrall is still around and the other major orcs too.

[Darklurker]

Well, my top choice for Warchief would have been Rexxar. But that was obvisouly not going to happen. They could have fit him well in this expansion, helping to hold the Horde together, but, alas.
Thrall would have been alright. Saurfang was considered during the Shattering, but he is really way too old.
Considering the other possible candidates, Vol'jin is the most logical choice. He was quite badass in the cinematic, but I would be really cheering for him if he had just killed Garrosh the way he promised.

[bayushisan]

Trassk I understand being disappointed in something, but I also think you're taking this personally. Maybe I've just got a different perspective because I don't have a favorite race, or maybe it's because I just look at things from a different angle sometimes; but I thought about what you said about there being no pride in the orcs after this and I have wonder if maybe that might be the point in a way.

Just hear me out for a minute. For years the orcs have been driven by pride. Pride in their skills as warriors, pride in being survivors, and pride in their heroes. They were proud to follow Thrall (now Go'el) when he helped to free them and lead them away from the Eastern Kingdoms to find a new home away from the humans. When Garrosh helped to lead their forces against the Lich King the orcs were again proud to lay down their lives for him, because he was uncorrupted by the demon blood curse, and Garrosh was especially driven by pride and eventually hatred of everything that wasn't an orc.

It's important to remember that when Thrall brought the orcs to Durotar he wanted them to do penance there for their crimes during the Second War. I think that this was also a way of trying to learn humility by living off meager resources. That's not what the orcs learned however. They reinforced their pride in being survivors. With each expansion their pride grew, until it fully manifested in Garrosh's reign as Warchief. I think there are a lot of Orc players, not you obviously, that wanted a leader like Garrosh. They wanted someone strong and proud, and Blizzard gave those players exactly what they wanted. They also proceeded to show what can happen when that unbridled pride is matched with unreasoning hatred. Pride is what led Garrosh to believe in his people's racial superiority, and look what nearly happened to the Horde because of that.

With the orcs being out of the leadership position for now I think it will a time of introspection for their people. Hopefully they'll wonder what led them to this moment, and what they can do to make sure it doesn't happen again. Perhaps humbleness won't be looked upon with such disdain. You never can tell.

[Crashdummy]

Vol'jin can become better than he's been so far, but when I picture heavily armored orc troops with their battle-axes and demolishers led by... a nearly naked troll with paint plastered all over his face? That's a silly image.

The sense of pride I had for my faction is depleted. At this very moment my Horde doesn't feel cool. I don't know how it'll be in the future, but right now I feel like my character should canonically die in Siege of Orgrimmar, just to not feel this sense of disbelief and loss I feel now.

I refused to follow Garrosh because he was an idiot.

I will refuse to follow Vol'jin because he is not worthy.

Seems my Orc Shaman will remain a rogue Horde (if i continue playing at all).

Vol'jin is not worthy of the mantle, he has done NOTHING to deserve it.

[Thorqin]

Vol'jin can become better than he's been so far, but when I picture heavily armored orc troops with their battle-axes and demolishers led by... a nearly naked troll with paint plastered all over his face? That's a silly image.

The sense of pride I had for my faction is depleted. At this very moment my Horde doesn't feel cool. I don't know how it'll be in the future, but right now I feel like my character should canonically die in Siege of Orgrimmar, just to not feel this sense of disbelief and loss I feel now.

My Death Knight has picked up his belongings and moved to the Ebon Hold. No way am I following a troll, especially one who conspired with the Alliance and has next to no major accomplishments. I'm a Knight of the Ebon Blade until we get a true Warchief again.

[Dreadlack]

It is time for Humans to take a backseat, we need change, I get a bit fed up of it always being Orc's v Humans, Vol'jin as Leader of the Horde is a first step, to what will hopefully shake the *norm* up a bit.

I'd be rather happy to see Varian go off somewhere and let any other Alliance race get a foothold.

You seem very angry over stuff and other peoples opinions, we're all entitled to enjoy what we like without being told we are wrong by yourself, Trassk!

Couldn't agree more. Although I think Variann is okay, I'd love to take a break from the humans and get some other race's perspective. Could be worgen, draenei and what not. Basically I'm sick and tired of human vs orcs, and I'm glad that 5.4 can be seen as some devs are as well.

[Frozenbeef]

Garrosh surviving = best possible outcome

vol'jin being warcheif = worst possible outcome


So I'm kinda in the middle. :P

[Deleted]

If American can have a black president the Horde can have a Troll Warchief. Modern times people, modern times.

[Thorqin]

If American can have a black president the Horde can have a Troll Warchief. Modern times people, modern times.

America has a half white president, we'd be fine with a half Orc Warchief aka Rexxar.

[Alienshroom]

Nothing will change. The Horde from vanilla did not change because the blood elves joined, it still had its same original orcish/tribal vibe.