How 5.4 has killed ToT LFR

[Skul]

I did the exact thing OP describes this weekend with my Shammy. All fresh 496 gear. 463 weapons. No gems, No enchants. I actually had some guy nerd rage so hard that he made a fresh level 1 on my server just so he could accuse and cruse at me about how bad I was. Bet the tool didn't even bother to look at my toon.

Either way I got two 502 weapons, and now can get into SoO LFR as soon as it drops Love LFR loot.

Long story short, not all of us care enough about alts, nor LFR groups, to bother doing more than the bare minimum for em. I mean heck, atleast I was DOING dps, we had 2 dps and 1 heal in the group that were AFK the entire time and literally did nothing. Im sure they didnt get a cusing.

[CR77]

This was actually the best week I've had in ToT LFR lol.

[Elestia]

I can pull over 50k dps on my 424 ilvl balance druid. For most LFR, and people in 496 gear, not being able to do this is atrocious. Rather than blame the Timeless Isle, imo blame the people learning how to play their spec and the huge delta variation that comes with very high stat gear. Blizz realizes this, thus why an item squish is inbound so there is greater room for user error. (Imo also why Vanilla and BC raid bosses felt more tightly tuned, which they were. Even current bosses, especially normal mode, has more slack than ever before, yet still cannot account for every comp.)

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I think its funny that when bliz actually gives bad players something good, that should actually end up helping and enhancing the game, ie and especially LFR and catch-up epics, that they still remain bad or ever worse than before. Blizz wants a better player-base and people playing on a better level so that they can enjoy raid content and feel connected to the game and their character. That said, 8-9 people out of 10 just plain suck at playing the game, and will therefore continue to suck. Blizz knows this, and TRY to help. The point is, is that players actually have to make an effort to be better, and either you have it or you don't. Most people don't, and say things like 'its a game', or 'its too hardcore when I learn how to play', or 'OH I don't want to take this too seriously', or 'wow this player is good he must have no life.'

[Belloc]

If you're still trying to finish your legendary chain, then use openraid and find normal ToT runs. 20% nerf + crossrealm = tons of groups, easy clears. There's no point in doing LFR anymore.

[jimlow]

May i ask why are you STILL doing ToT LFR?

Spend this week farming on timeless isle / doing proving grounds.

SoO LFR opens next reset

Secrets and titan runestones. Some of us got really bad RNG and have smote us. And before you say it, yes we know that they drop out of SoO as well but getting an extra 16 bosses in will get the drop chances faster.

[Normie]

I can pull over 50k dps on my 424 ilvl balance druid. For most LFR, and people in 496 gear, not being able to do this is atrocious.

At level 85 with a few pieces of 450 gear, sure. Wear that gear until you're level 90 and 50k is so far out of your grasp that it's not even a dream.

Boomkin single target DPS at level 90 is pretty terrible and frustrating by the way.

[Peacemoon]

I found DPS has been lacking this week, but we still cleared it fine... just took a bit longer than usual. Though I prefer to go as Tank so I can direct people and use raid warnings - seems to help the people who don't know what they're doing.

Also is it just me or are certain mechanics less threatening now?

[karradine]

No doubt it is a combination of factors ... fewer incentives for good players, people who don't know how to play alts, etc., but I believe that there were many players who had never stepped into ToT until this week gave them a timeless isle iLvl boost. I am only running it for secrets now. Early in the week I ran through Pinnacle with no problems at all. However, later in the week, I wiped 3-4 times on two toons on Megaera, because at least half the people with cinders just stood in the middle of the raid or the tanks pointed the heads in the wrong direction. Maybe someone tanking on an alt would have trouble turning the head, but no amount of gear or class-specific skill accounts for the cinders stuff. First-time ToT folks would not have had time to grab timeless stuff and do the first three wings of LFR to get into Pinnacle by Tuesday, so I think it was mostly folks who knew the fights. By the weekend, the first few wings were full of timeless gear.

[Hottie4Hire]

I got 5 stacks of determination on Horridon. By the time we finished door 1, the set of two venomancers had spawned on door 2.

We then of course moved on to Council and wiped 4 times there as well. Spent 2 hours in that LFR.

[khalltusk]

Actually last night I waited 10mins for a raid. Most of the time my waiting time is not too bad (its pretty good on my healer tank queue remains the same on my DK).

I need ToT for weapons :/ i have an agility weapon on my shaman from leveling (heroic dungeons refuse to drop loot!) that and 1 ring are the only items below 480 everything else is 496-502 (timeless gear and have 2 set bonus for tot resto tier set and two tot trinkets now) oh and i need a new neck! :<

[Azrile]

Gems don't make people do 40k more dps, I think the issue is rather that ToT is probably a fresh alts first action content with the Timeless Isle now, everything before it is redundant so there's no place people learn. Beforehand people probably got used to their spec and playstyle in heroics or mogushan vaults, now they learn in ToT. You're still playing with the freshly dinged and inexperienced. Just give it a bit of time, I've had enrages before 5.4 anyway. I even wiped on the very first boss last week, as well as enraging on Primordius a couple of times.

Exactly this. I have 10 90s.. but because there has been so much to do with my main, I have barely touched the alts except to level . Now guess what.. Most of them have the ilvl to get into TOT without ever having done even a heroic dungeon. Seriously, 3 of them got to 90 by doing pet battles, they never even did a single quest after dropping into Jade forest. A couple of my alts changed radically ( locks, rogue).. I would have no idea what their rotation is.. but there is the button to queuue for TOT LFR.

I am not going to do it, because I know I won´t play them much anyway, so why bother with gear... but the boa stuff was just too easy to get. I have 8 alts, basically never played, with every slot filled with BOA stuff now.

[Anjerith]

The items that drop in ToT for the Legendary now drop in SoO.

Also

Blizzard isn't stopping people from running ToT LFR - natural player progression is.

[Azrile]

If you're still trying to finish your legendary chain, then use openraid and find normal ToT runs. 20% nerf + crossrealm = tons of groups, easy clears. There's no point in doing LFR anymore.

This!!! If your only goal is to catch up on the legendary chain, just use openraid to do every prior raid each week.

[brirrspliff]

Thats Blizzard, they try to bring something cool and destroy working things unintended, they have a problem to forsee things like this. Theyre always underestimating players initiative to do whatver it takes to get easy gear.

everything you just said does not make any sense. why would anyone still WANT to do ToT in lfr? blizzard has done everything right. well, not exactly: they implemented lfr. but since then, everything makes sense.

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Also is it just me or are certain mechanics less threatening now?

less compared to what?! there never have been any threatening mechanics in lfr...

[Shadowlance]

3 more fucking runestones. ALL I NEEEEEEDDDDDDD

[DeadmanWalking]

Now blizz have made the timeless isle and people are sending 496 epics to there fresh alts im finding raid after raid people in ToT are pulling under 60k dps because they are un-gemmed and un-enchanted. I've tried for 8 different raids to clear the 3rd part of ToT on LFR but fail due to low dps and even hitting the enrage on bosses for the 1st time ever.

This really needs to be addressed due to im seeing a major decrease in groups finishing LFR now thanks to fresh players doing little to no DPS

The problem isn’t that Blizz hands out 496 gear, its the short timers in LFR.

Short timers are people who only want to pay for 1 or 2 months of wow every time theres a content drop so they can ‘see’ the content. Most casual LFR players want to ‘experience’ the content, they do so repeatedly and gear up. The majority of them care about what they are doing and gear up all expansion, buy valor gear, enchant and gem. Short timers just show up, see the content and quit wow until the next content drop happens, then they buy another month, gear up for 2 weeks before the content drop and then push through the new lfr content until they see the final boss drop and then leave again. They don’t care about gemming, enchanting, boss mechanics, reforging or even having decent gear. They always underperform and they move in flocks.

Last week my friend wanted me to heal thier tank in ToT LFR and against my better judgement I went in and we wiped 4 times on Jin’Rok before ditching the party. After the first wipe I explained the mechanics and none of the short timers cared to listen. First pull there were 15+ people not standing in puddles, second a dozen and then stayed around 8 or 9 the rest of the wipes. There was no way that group was going to get past Horridon so we bailed and got another group.

Short Timers= People who don’t really give a shit how to play their class, gem, enchant, reforge, how to do boss mechanics or even glyph/talent. They just want to ‘see’ garrosh die then they quit until the next content drop. They move in flocks and they absolutely turn LFR into a shit festival several weeks before and after a new content drop.

[khalltusk]

The problem isn’t that Blizz hands out 496 gear, its the short timers in LFR.

Short timers are people who only want to pay for 1 or 2 months of wow every time theres a content drop so they can ‘see’ the content. Most casual LFR players want to ‘experience’ the content, they do so repeatedly and gear up. The majority of them care about what they are doing and gear up all expansion, buy valor gear, enchant and gem. Short timers just show up, see the content and quit wow until the next content drop happens, then they buy another month, gear up for 2 weeks before the content drop and then push through the new lfr content until they see the final boss drop and then leave again. They don’t care about gemming, enchanting, boss mechanics, reforging or even having decent gear. They always underperform and they move in flocks.

Last week my friend wanted me to heal thier tank in ToT LFR and against my better judgement I went in and we wiped 4 times on Jin’Rok before ditching the party. After the first wipe I explained the mechanics and none of the short timers cared to listen. First pull there were 15+ people not standing in puddles, second a dozen and then stayed around 8 or 9 the rest of the wipes. There was no way that group was going to get past Horridon so we bailed and got another group.

Short Timers= People who don’t really give a shit how to play their class, gem, enchant, reforge, how to do boss mechanics or even glyph/talent. They just want to ‘see’ garrosh die then they quit until the next content drop. They move in flocks and they absolutely turn LFR into a shit festival several weeks before and after a new content drop.

Also you have to factor in DPS classes that can fill the tank/healer role but only go in as DPS then whine about long queue times.

The amount of DPS required for the raid is 17, then you have tanks and healers to fit into that 6 healers 2 tanks. Tank spots normally fill up fairly quick as there are only 2 required. Healer spots are the worst (part why I like raiding in LFR on my shaman as a healer).

Now some people only want to play DPS fair enough but for those paladins warriors DKs monks and druids tanking is similar to DPS! you hit the boss do a lot of damage but instead of not trying to get Aggro you have to get Aggro! You still need to avoid fires but on top of that you need to pick up adds tank swap with the other tank and do some other fun things (will of the emperor is still a fun fight). A friend who plays a DK ive been nagging him to collect tank gear and when SoO opens to queue with me and my brother and a few others as a tank. I can go in on my DK as a tank or my shaman as a healer and the queue will be a LOT shorter.

I think we just need to get more DPS into the other roles to help lessen the burden.

[Osmeric]

The problem isn’t that Blizz hands out 496 gear, its the short timers in LFR.

Also, these short timers may be loaded up with low cost 496 items, but their weapons are unlike to have that high an ilvl. And the weapon slot is disproportionately important for overall performance. So, they are likely to be less powerful than their raw ilvl would naively imply.

[Halicia]

This was actually the best week I've had in ToT LFR lol.

yeah, ironically I did more in LFR this week then... eh... almost the rest of the 2 patches combined. I'd been letting my monk alt sit around for a while mostly ungeared, but those new 496's got me a little keen on gearing up my main and offspecs a bit more thoroughly.

went into 4 LFRs and dont think we wiped once.

I can definitely see the longterm troubles though, as there's little reason to be doing ToT LFR when the Normal is accessible to xrealm pugging now.

WTB 'Random LFR' queues.

[NeverStop]

The problem isn’t that Blizz hands out 496 gear, its the short timers in LFR.

Short timers are people who only want to pay for 1 or 2 months of wow every time theres a content drop so they can ‘see’ the content. Most casual LFR players want to ‘experience’ the content, they do so repeatedly and gear up. The majority of them care about what they are doing and gear up all expansion, buy valor gear, enchant and gem. Short timers just show up, see the content and quit wow until the next content drop happens, then they buy another month, gear up for 2 weeks before the content drop and then push through the new lfr content until they see the final boss drop and then leave again. They don’t care about gemming, enchanting, boss mechanics, reforging or even having decent gear. They always underperform and they move in flocks.

Last week my friend wanted me to heal thier tank in ToT LFR and against my better judgement I went in and we wiped 4 times on Jin’Rok before ditching the party. After the first wipe I explained the mechanics and none of the short timers cared to listen. First pull there were 15+ people not standing in puddles, second a dozen and then stayed around 8 or 9 the rest of the wipes. There was no way that group was going to get past Horridon so we bailed and got another group.

Short Timers= People who don’t really give a shit how to play their class, gem, enchant, reforge, how to do boss mechanics or even glyph/talent. They just want to ‘see’ garrosh die then they quit until the next content drop. They move in flocks and they absolutely turn LFR into a shit festival several weeks before and after a new content drop.

But it's my $15/month and I can play however I want you elitist!