Thread: Tinker Class

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  1. #1221
    Quote Originally Posted by But I Hate You All View Post
    Show me the source where Dota 2, Atlantica online or Moby Frankes says they were inspired by the WC3 Tinker hero. Let me guess you probably think Crono trigger was inspired by the WC3 Tinker hero.
    You need proof for the tinker hero in Dota 2 ? Dota 2 is a copy of Dota which is a custom map for WC3.
    If that isn't proof enough then I dunno what you are asking for.

  2. #1222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    Yeah but all of the heros that went into those classes did.
    This
    also we did have Priest http://classic.battle.net/war3/human/units/priest.shtml warriors http://classic.battle.net/war3/human...tainking.shtml
    locks http://classic.battle.net/war3/neutral/pitlord.shtml

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You never saw the Tinker of DOTA1?


    Remember the Tinker from WC3?



    Yeeeeah.....
    Why in the fuck do you keep spamming these images ? its annoying.

    As I said before Show me the source where Dota 2, Atlantica online or Moby Frankes says they were inspired by the WC3 Tinker hero. Let me guess you probably think Crono trigger was inspired by the WC3 Tinker hero.

    that image is fan art http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398770
    Last edited by But I Hate You All; 2013-09-17 at 11:56 PM.

  3. #1223
    I enjoyed killing Tinkers in DotA with my anti-mage (DH inspired).

  4. #1224
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamzz View Post
    You need proof for the tinker hero in Dota 2 ? Dota 2 is a copy of Dota which is a custom map for WC3.
    If that isn't proof enough then I dunno what you are asking for.
    Did I just list Dota 2? or did I list two other games as well?

  5. #1225
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah, we don't play as the original Death Knights. We play DKs from WC3 lore.
    Who are simply champions of the Scourge, not ex-paladins. This is why the class is open up to all races (barring Pandaren). If our player characters were really based on Warcraft 3, then yes, they would all be ex-paladins who followed Arthas up into Northrend. That's what all of those champions represented. The player characters we have are technically trained under those paladins, creating a new generation that is separate. Not all of them were followers of the Holy Light, or else we wouldn't be allowed to have races like Orcs, Night Elves and Gnomes being Death Knights.

    The same works for a Demon Hunter playable class. The most logical thing to be is a new generation of Demon Hunters trained by the first generation of Demon Hunters trained by Illidan. Illidan himself may return if he gets a redemption story, but I think his story must be told first before the class gets introduced, otherwise he doesn't need to have anything to do with the player class. It's like Arthas having nothing to do with the training of your player Death Knight. So would your Demon Hunter have the same demonic abilities as Illidan? No. Would they strive to be like Illidan? Not necessarily. That's the path that Warlocks are taking, and that's fine, because Illidan is a demon. Right now we have no one to champion the Demon Hunter class, so it's difficult to associate the class as anything other than Illidan's club of fanboys. Death Knights already have their identity, you're part of Darion Mograine's Knights of the Ebon Hand. It's clear that you have nothing to do with Arthas or the Scourge.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2013-09-18 at 12:09 AM.

  6. #1226
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by But I Hate You All View Post
    Did I just list Dota 2? or did I list two other games as well?
    Just FYI, Moby Frankes is a concept designer for DOTA2, and that image is a concept design for the DOTA2 Tinker. So yes, he was inspired by the WC3 Tinker hero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    The same works for a Demon Hunter playable class. The most logical thing to be is a new generation of Demon Hunters trained by the first generation of Demon Hunters trained by Illidan. Illidan himself may return if he gets a redemption story, but I think his story must be told first before the class gets introduced, otherwise he doesn't need to have anything to do with the player class. It's like Arthas having nothing to do with the training of your player Death Knight. So would your Demon Hunter have the same demonic abilities as Illidan? No. Would they strive to be like Illidan? Not necessarily. That's the path that Warlocks are taking, and that's fine, because Illidan is a demon. Right now we have no one to champion the Demon Hunter class, so it's difficult to associate the class as anything other than Illidan's club of fanboys. Death Knights already have their identity, you're part of Darion Mograine's Knights of the Ebon Hand. It's clear that you have nothing to do with Arthas or the Scourge.
    You mean re-introduced, since we already had a Demon Hunter expansion via TBC, and we kind of killed most of them in the process.

    Immediately following that, Warlocks started getting Demon Hunter abilities.

    A "redemption" story for DHs sounds kind of silly. It makes since for DKs because they're fallen champions. Demon Hunters actively choose to embrace the darkness of demonic magic (just like Warlocks).
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-09-18 at 12:11 AM.

  7. #1227
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Just FYI, Moby Frankes is a concept designer for DOTA2, and that image is a concept design for the DOTA2 Tinker. So yes, he was inspired by the WC3 Tinker hero.

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    You mean re-introduced, since we already had a Demon Hunter expansion via TBC, and we kind of killed most of them in the process.

    Immediately following that, Warlocks started getting Demon Hunter abilities.
    We killed 5. Out of who knows how many demon hunters are out there. Yeah..

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  8. #1228
    Most if not all of the original death knights were killed, but they were brought back under a different design. Why can't Demon Hunters undergo the same treatment?

  9. #1229
    Quote Originally Posted by Perpetuus View Post
    Most if not all of the original death knights were killed, but they were brought back under a different design. Why can't Demon Hunters undergo the same treatment?
    Teriz wouldnt like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  10. #1230
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perpetuus View Post
    Most if not all of the original death knights were killed, but they were brought back under a different design. Why can't Demon Hunters undergo the same treatment?
    Because they aren't undead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    We killed 5. Out of who knows how many demon hunters are out there. Yeah..
    We killed numerous Demon Hunter intiates as well.

    http://www.wowhead.com/npc=21180/demon-hunter-initiate#abilities

    So we killed the masters, and the students.

  11. #1231
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Because they aren't undead.

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    We killed numerous Demon Hunter intiates as well.

    http://www.wowhead.com/npc=21180/dem...iate#abilities

    So we killed the masters, and the students.
    The original is a demon so hes probably still alive. Altrius is still around. And theres an group of them called the dark embrace. gtfo

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  12. #1232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Illidan= Demon Hunters. You can't have one without the other.
    Yes, you can. Altruis remained true (or, returned) to original goals of Demon Hunters, which pretty much made him an opponent of Illidan. Worked for him, why it wouldn't work for player class?

    Considering that Demon Hunters could transform themselves into demons and use demonic powers, I'm not seeing the issue here.
    Transforming temporarily into a demon to fight demons = using your enemy's power to fight him. Becoming a demon = becoming your enemy. The difference is absolutely huge lorewise.

    Warlocks didn't have a single bit of lore from Demon Hunters. Mechanics are shared, so I won't deny the problem doesn't exist, but it is rather easy to solve, if there would be need for it.

  13. #1233
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    1. Where's Exploding Sheep in the Tinker ability list?
    As the Tinker Hero unit from WC3 had only 4 abilities, should Tinkers become a playable class this argument will be applicable to probably 98% of their abilities. Don't use it, it works against you.

  14. #1234
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    Altruis the Sufferer about Illidan:

    "I still have respect for Illidan. Without him I would not have found my path.

    He is not who he once was, however. His soul has been corrupted by power, his mind has been twisted by defeat. He has become what I am sworn to destroy and his pet servants, the Illidari, are as much of an abomination as any demon of the Burning Legion."

    About demons:

    "Some demons pledge allegiance to no one but themselves. A true enemy of demons finds and destroys his prey regardless of affiliation, however."

  15. #1235
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You mean re-introduced, since we already had a Demon Hunter expansion via TBC, and we kind of killed most of them in the process.
    Introduced, because a Demon Hunter playable class was never made.

    Immediately following that, Warlocks started getting Demon Hunter abilities.
    Warlocks were inspired by Demon Hunters from the very beginning. Was it every in doubt that the Warlock draws inspiration from the class? It took spells from the Demon Hunter, Pitlord, Dreadlord - and even Death Knight. When they designed WoW's classes, they focused on taking what familiar and iconic abilities there were and allocating them to appropriate classes to fill out a broad spectrum. They didn't have Hero classes in mind, that's why a spell like Death Coil was first given to Warlocks, which was retroactively changed when the actual Death Knight class was introduced.

    A "redemption" story for DHs sounds kind of silly. It makes since for DKs because they're fallen champions. Demon Hunters actively choose to embrace the darkness of demonic magic (just like Warlocks).
    Demon Hunters aren't evil. Illidan fell to his own pride, going full-blown demonic. There's really nothing to say that the Demon Hunter champion for the Player Class will go in a new, better direction that fits the Alliance and Horde. And if Illidan does return, he will likely have a redemption or revenge story, where he goes back to being a classic Anti-Hero instead of pure villain. I don't see Blizzard making Kerrigan 2.0 out of him. He's a damned cool character, but he doesn't need to be tied to the playable class. I mean look at Chen Stormstout; we have playable Monks and none of them have anything to do with him.

  16. #1236
    I want say read in here from Teriz that wow want be making many more exspansion for wow. I like they wil be look at ever quest at over 20 and wow way more popular that so wow will be here for many more years

  17. #1237
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arikan View Post
    As the Tinker Hero unit from WC3 had only 4 abilities, should Tinkers become a playable class this argument will be applicable to probably 98% of their abilities. Don't use it, it works against you.
    Sukhoi's argument is that Tinkers are already in the game via Engineering. If that were the case, at least one of its abilities would show up in Engineering.

    None of them do.

    That was my point.

  18. #1238
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Sukhoi's argument is that Tinkers are already in the game via Engineering. If that were the case, at least one of its abilities would show up in Engineering.

    None of them do.

    That was my point.
    Two of them do actually.

    My argument for tinkers and demon hunters are both lorewise. Theres no reason for them to join the horde/alliance. They wouldve been playable classes by now. Tinkers have no reason to suddenly become a playable class, and dhs are outcasts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  19. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Introduced, because a Demon Hunter playable class was never made.
    That's pretty irrelevant. If they were going to be a playable class, they would have been such in the expansion where we faced Illidan, and we fought with and against many Demon Hunters. Warlocks getting Demon Hunter abilities after TBC supports that.

    Warlocks were inspired by Demon Hunters from the very beginning. Was it every in doubt that the Warlock draws inspiration from the class? It took spells from the Demon Hunter, Pitlord, Dreadlord - and even Death Knight. When they designed WoW's classes, they focused on taking what familiar and iconic abilities there were and allocating them to appropriate classes to fill out a broad spectrum. They didn't have Hero classes in mind, that's why a spell like Death Coil was first given to Warlocks, which was retroactively changed when the actual Death Knight class was introduced.
    Death Coil wasn't the Death Knight spell from WC3. I don't know how many times I need to repeat that.

    I mean look at Chen Stormstout; we have playable Monks and none of them have anything to do with him.
    You mean beyond the fact that the entire class was modeled after him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    Two of them do actually.
    Please point out the Tinker abilities in Engineering.

    My argument for tinkers and demon hunters are both lorewise. Theres no reason for them to join the horde/alliance. They wouldve been playable classes by now. Tinkers have no reason to suddenly become a playable class, and dhs are outcasts.
    Goblins and Gnomes being in opposing factions, and being technological rivals give Tinkers plenty reason to be a class for the Horde and the Alliance.

  20. #1240
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That's pretty irrelevant. If they were going to be a playable class, they would have been such in the expansion where we faced Illidan, and we fought with and against many Demon Hunters. Warlocks getting Demon Hunter abilities after TBC supports that.



    Death Coil wasn't the Death Knight spell from WC3. I don't know how many times I need to repeat that.



    You mean beyond the fact that the entire class was modeled after him?

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    Please point out the Tinker abilities in Engineering.



    Goblins and Gnomes being in opposing factions, and being technology rivals give Tinkers plenty reason to be a class for the Horde and the Alliance.
    Goblins are part of the horde? Gnomes alliance? Or am i crazy? What i mean is. Monks were an undiscovered style of fighting where the teachings were taught to us. Death Knights were betrayed and broke free.

    With Tinkers, its not like theres a secret sect of super badass tinkers out there, where "We want to help you voljin and varian".

    Explosive sheep does the exact same thing as pocket factory. And the mortar and glove TINKERING ABILITY are cluster rockets. Please tell me how shooting someone with a rocket, isnt an ability? Putting a sheep down that chases someone and explodes? Its an ability no matter how much you dont want to believe it. It has damage and has a cooldown. All the characteristics of an ability.
    Last edited by Sukhoi; 2013-09-18 at 01:11 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

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