Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[soamazzing]

Anyone already did some tests on the whole "Crit > Mastery with Thok's Tip Tail" debate ?
I have the trinket but didn't yet have the time to run enough tests unfortunately.

Ran it through simcraft with different gear levels (heroic non bis, bis, current gear, ect) and simcraft does not agree with exemplar's theory. I have yet to have time to actually test it in LFR(aka fully buffed dummy) but it is not looking good. The main issue with prioritizing crit after 40% haste unbuffed is we will likely see huge swings from fight to fight, as always mastery is the more reliable choice and can be counted on to produce results.

[anaxie]

Ran it through simcraft with different gear levels (heroic non bis, bis, current gear, ect) and simcraft does not agree with exemplar's theory. I have yet to have time to actually test it in LFR(aka fully buffed dummy) but it is not looking good. The main issue with prioritizing crit after 40% haste unbuffed is we will likely see huge swings from fight to fight, as always mastery is the more reliable choice and can be counted on to produce results.

When has exemplar ever been reliable. The only thing I remember about his sheets and coding in the past is how bug riddled and awful they are.

[Deleted]

So I played around with the Nazgrim Mace, since somebody mentioned it could be BiS for humans/dwarfs and I ended up with this:
http://goo.gl/Exav3G

It acutally looks quite satisfying to me. You can probably gem and reforge a little bit more optimal, I think.
Keep in mind this is for HUMANS/DWARFS.

E: comparison http://goo.gl/Q3cZ8n

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Alternatively you can go Draenei and get away with gemming hit/haste gem(s) or using hit enchants.

[soamazzing]

When has exemplar ever been reliable. The only thing I remember about his sheets and coding in the past is how bug riddled and awful they are.

Agreed, but anytime there is talk of a different way to do things it's always worth a look/test to see if it is plausible. His theory is logical but in practice I doubt it will hold up. There have been moments in the past where exemplar's ret modeling has proven to be better than Baehales (simcraft ret coder), I believe the major difference was haste related funny enough. In the end I really do not trust anyone's assumptions and I do my own testing anyway but I always keep my ear to the ground for new theories. Example of this is, someone mentioned that we should dump all mastery for Nourshan zerg, I will be testing that in LFR (first time I am hoping to not get picked by RNG gods to get purified) with a Crit>mastery setup.

[Alviarin]

I get picked by Norushen each time, right on pull, on LFR. And I mean each time, over 5+ pulls. My guess is that the encounter chooses who goes to the other world either by dps ranking, ilvl, or something, but it can't be a coincidence.

Also, I'm wondering the following :
If the Norushen damage debuff double dips on our mastery, does the damage buff (+25% when you're purified on Heroic) also double dip and then isn't going for mastery the right thing to do ? (I was lucky enough to be chosen to go purify myself on our attempts, we didn't have enough dps to do a full zerg strat).

[anaxie]

Agreed, but anytime there is talk of a different way to do things it's always worth a look/test to see if it is plausible. His theory is logical but in practice I doubt it will hold up. There have been moments in the past where exemplar's ret modeling has proven to be better than Baehales (simcraft ret coder), I believe the major difference was haste related funny enough. In the end I really do not trust anyone's assumptions and I do my own testing anyway but I always keep my ear to the ground for new theories. Example of this is, someone mentioned that we should dump all mastery for Nourshan zerg, I will be testing that in LFR (first time I am hoping to not get picked by RNG gods to get purified) with a Crit>mastery setup.

They are both terrible. Lets leave my opinion at that. =/

Uh it really don't matter what you do on Norushen you are fucked either way because just like we are one of the best scaling classes in the entire game with % mods we also scale the worst when they reduce our damage that much.

[Deleted]

So I played around with the Nazgrim Mace, since somebody mentioned it could be BiS for humans/dwarfs and I ended up with this:
http://goo.gl/Exav3G

It acutally looks quite satisfying to me. You can probably gem and reforge a little bit more optimal, I think.
Keep in mind this is for HUMANS/DWARFS.

E: comparison http://goo.gl/Q3cZ8n

Hm ok I simmed my list and I get 2k DPS less than anaxie's, despite having 400str und 550mastery more.

[konne]

Have hard time atm to think what to use as offpiece before garrosh, is the hands in ur opinion best or what u would think?

[Tanyn]

I just picked whatever tier I got my hands on first then grabbed an off-piece. For Heroic though, I assume it'll be the first HWF offpiece and I will fill in tier around it.

[Deleted]

They are both terrible. Lets leave my opinion at that. =/

Uh it really don't matter what you do on Norushen you are fucked either way because just like we are one of the best scaling classes in the entire game with % mods we also scale the worst when they reduce our damage that much.

I thought that back during Cata, when they designed our mastery, they specifically stopped it from doubledipping on damage increases and decreases? I mean, as far as I know, mastery itself was not affected by any damage buffs or debuffs, because mastery already got the buff through the damage proc? just like elemental shaman mastery doesn't double dip on + damage effects because it's already scaling with them. or did they mess all such effects up?

[Montoyal]

It doesn't double dip for what I can tell. Not in a positive or negative way.

[Fargus]

So is the current recommendation to stack mastery after hitting 40% haste unbuffed? Or still continue with haste as the #1 secondary stat?

[Jerion]

So is the current recommendation to stack mastery after hitting 40% haste unbuffed? Or still continue with haste as the #1 secondary stat?

It depends on if you have 4piece t16 or not. Once you get it, haste loses ground to mastery.

[Vigilanti]

just to edit something on the OP, Heroic WF Eye brings wings down to a 1 minute 20 second exactly, GoaK 2 minutes. Bubble also 1:40 with unbreakable, and Divine prot 20 sec for anyone that cares

[Colmadero]

This may have been asked a thousand times but... why are we stopping at 40% haste? Is that raid buffed or un-buffed?
I'm currently sitting at around 32% unbuffed and 45% raid buffed. is this desirable? I just swapped some pieces to get more mastery.
My armory is in my sig, please take a look at it and give me your opinion.

[Vigilanti]

This may have been asked a thousand times but... why are we stopping at 40% haste? Is that raid buffed or un-buffed?
I'm currently sitting at around 32% unbuffed and 45% raid buffed. is this desirable? I just swapped some pieces to get more mastery.
My armory is in my sig, please take a look at it and give me your opinion.

40% is around the inflection point value, where Mastery and crit will start to gain more value than haste, also its a good soft cap value without math, for CS cd, and gcd without being to global capped. i.e Rotation is really smooth with 0 downtime, but no ability clutter. If you wanted more of an answer I could post math, but its a lot of effort.

[Fredzilla]

And from my understanding thats 40% unbuffed, since the raid haste buff doesn't do anything for our SoB.

[Vigilanti]

also thanks Fredzilla for picking up on that bit that i missed. You also may want to sim out your weights and see if you can benefit from exp/haste or exo/mastery gems instead of str haste.

[Svettmormor]

This is what i've come up with (I'm BS/JC, thats why i've added in those Bold Gems and extra sockets).

http://tinyurl.com/pjme39s

Im looking at another setup with Devilfang Band instead. That would put me up a couple of 100 STR, but i'll miss out on some additional Mastery.

Any thoughts?