Should lfr be 40 man?

[Lbgr]

I understand there is a lot of hate for LFR, and to those people, I'd kindly ask them to stay out of the thread.

But to those who do enjoy lfr, I'd like to ask this.

Current queues are anywhere from 15 min - 45 min on average for any given wing. (for dps)

The hardest role to fill is of course healers. This means there are TONS of dps sitting and waiting. If lfr's were increased to 40 man, with very little change to mechanics, we could potentially see more dps slots fill up, lowering queue times, with roughly the same number of healers.

Thoughts?

[Deleted]

Already have enough FPS issues as it is.. Please no ;(.

[Daetur]

My computer has enough trouble with 25 people on my college connection, and trying to lead 25 people in LFR is already like herding cats. As much as I'd like to see DPS queuetimes go down, I don't think I'd enjoy 40-man LFR at all. -_-

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

What makes you think the number of healers would stay the same?

[Rhekk]

A good number of computers can barely handle 25s. Adding 15 more people into the mix would just get messy.

[Xombomb]

You seem to misunderstand that increasing a raid to 40 people doesn't just require filling it with dps slots. The Healers would have to be proportionate as well and 40 man raids tend to take WAY longer to fill.

I'm really hoping you didn't put any, or much, thought into this before you posted it.

[Deleted]

Already have enough FPS issues as it is.. Please no ;(.

>
This, unfortunately.

So much lag even in 25 man raids.

[bals]

What makes you think the number of healers would stay the same?

because increasing the number of healers required would not be smart.
Tanks could increase to like 3/4 though.
Rest of the increase should be dps

[Ealyssa]

Raid are no more made for 40 people. Their just won't be enough place in nearly every boss rooms.

[Lbgr]

because increasing the number of healers required would not be smart.
Tanks could increase to like 3/4 though.
Rest of the increase should be dps

That's my thoughts. You jsut increase the hit points of the bosses, without increasing the damage dealt by them. no need to increase the number of tanks needed, as mechanics would stay the same.

[spinner981]

Hell no, bad enough FPS as it is.

[Thelxi]

I'd actually like it.

[Daetur]

because increasing the number of healers required would not be smart.
Tanks could increase to like 3/4 though.
Rest of the increase should be dps

How would you manage with the same number of healers, though? You'd have to reduce outgoing damage to almost negligible amounts, because you're giving healers 15 more targets to heal, without adding any more healers.

Imagine a boss does an AoE for 100k. You have a 25m raid with 2 tanks, 6 healers, and 17 dps. The healers must heal up 416,667 damage each, assuming an even split of workload. If you try to run a 40m raid with no additional healers, that increases the healing load to 666,667 healing required from each healer for the exact same mechanic, even if you don't increase the amount of flat damage it deals.

In order to have the same healing load, you'd have to have the AoE reduced to 62,500 damage, almost a 40% nerf, in order to run a 40m raid without increasing the number of healers or increasing the demand on the current healers.

((Anyone better at math than I am can feel free to check my numbers))

[Tziva]

In theory I think it's a good idea, but the reality is that lots of people probably run machines that can't handle 40man raiding. In fact, it's probably a higher percentage in LFR than anywhere else, since people who approach gaming super casually are probably less likely to dump a lot of money into a gaming machine.

I hate 40mans but I'd tolerate it in an LFR environment, especially if it meant shorter queues for my pure DPS characters.

[Angrybathtub]

Don't think we need more people AFK and slacking off during boss fights.

[Lbgr]

How would you manage with the same number of healers, though? You'd have to reduce outgoing damage to almost negligible amounts, because you're giving healers 15 more targets to heal, without adding any more healers.

Imagine a boss does an AoE for 100k. You have a 25m raid with 2 tanks, 6 healers, and 17 dps. The healers must heal up 416,667 damage each, assuming an even split of workload. If you try to run a 40m raid with no additional healers, that increases the healing load to 666,667 healing required from each healer for the exact same mechanic, even if you don't increase the amount of flat damage it deals.

Not if the healing is mitigated to the number of players in the aoe. i.e. 100k damage over 25 people is the same 100k over 40 people. would actually make healing easier as you would have more time to refil a player, albeit you would have more targets to heal over all.

- - - Updated - - -

In theory I think it's a good idea, but the reality is that lots of people probably run machines that can't handle 40man raiding. In fact, it's probably a higher percentage in LFR than anywhere else, since people who approach gaming super casually are probably less likely to dump a lot of money into a gaming machine.

I hate 40mans but I'd tolerate it in an LFR environment, especially if it meant shorter queues for my pure DPS characters.

that leads to another question. IF your class has the ability to heal or tank, and you choose DPS, should be penalized (or should pure dps classes, mage/lock/hunter, etc) be given preference in queues?

[Sithalos]

No. It should be zero man. See what I did there? /Smugface

Contribute constructively

[Tziva]

because increasing the number of healers required would not be smart.
Tanks could increase to like 3/4 though.
Rest of the increase should be dps

You'd have to increase the number of healers a little bit, just to cover the additional bodies. Healing in LFR may be easy, but heals still have a cast time and it still takes X amount of time per-character for one healer to provide a heal.

The trick would be to increase the healers but not in the same proportion as you'd be increasing DPS, so the ratio would still positively impact DPS queues.

[Darsithis]

that leads to another question. IF your class has the ability to heal or tank, and you choose DPS, should be penalized (or should pure dps classes, mage/lock/hunter, etc) be given preference in queues?

No. Why should I be forced to tank or heal if I don't want to or lack the skill to do so?

[Daetur]

Not if the healing is mitigated to the number of players in the aoe. i.e. 100k damage over 25 people is the same 100k over 40 people. would actually make healing easier as you would have more time to refil a player, albeit you would have more targets to heal over all.

I don't understand what you mean by "the same 100k." Do you mean that, instead of an AoE that "deals 100k damage to each player in range," you'd change the mechanic to "deals 2,500,000 split among all players in range?" This would result in damage that ramped up during a fight if any members of the raid died, which I do not think is an ideal outcome.