2nd Wing LFR tuning is interesting

[Osmeric]

Blizzard need to nerf some boss or increase the ILVL req to enter for the next wings,

Yes, I've wondered how they were going to handle the latter part of SoO, where things supposedly get harder, if they stuck with the 496 requirement. It just wouldn't work at all.

[clevin]

Part of the issue I'm seeing is that this LFR has mechanics that aren't obvious. For example, Protectors... how do you know that each boss needs to be taken down 1/3 of their HP, then you swithc to then next boss and what order to kill the minibosses (Sorrow, Misery, etc) in? How do you know that the Protectors all need to die at the same time? Sure, you can read up on this, someone can tell you etc but if you just zone in there's nothing in the encounter that tells you about these mechanics. Same for Norushen - the mechanics aren't obvious if you don't know about them before zoning in. Hell, even Immerseus isn't obvious... sure you can figure out that the small black adds during Split should be killed but healing the white adds isn't obvious.

Now, some of these mechanics can be intuited by long time raiders because they're like things we've seen before. But for the people who started LFR in DS or in MoP, they don't have that background.

ANd hearing that there are dispells needed on Nazgrim... ick. Most LFR raiders probably don't have raidframes that easily show who's got a debuff on them and the game doesn't ever require learning about dispells outside of raids.

IF Blizz wants to introduce more complex mechanics to LFR they need to do two things:

1) Find some way to indicate mechanics inside of an encounter that's not the Dungeon Journal.

2) Update their UI so that things like debuffs are shown better on player frames.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, I've wondered how they were going to handle the latter part of SoO, where things supposedly get harder, if they stuck with the 496 requirement. It just wouldn't work at all.

You need the early wings to enter the later wings so I imagine that figure that by time people get to the final wings they'll have more experience and perhaps a couple of upgrades. That won't help in the first weeks, but eventually as people do the early wings enough they will move up in ilevel.

[Osmeric]

You need the early wings to enter the later wings so I imagine that figure that by time people get to the final wings they'll have more experience and perhaps a couple of upgrades.

I'm pretty sure the increase in experience will be almost entirely irrelevant. No one is going to change their skill much from doing two wings of LFR.

[Deleted]

No, LFR players like "fun fights" where you get to move around and do new and different stuff.

What we don't like is fights where a strategy is difficult to figure out and/or difficult to explain.

"Don't hit boss in defensive stance, kill adds, move out of axe + fire path"

Not really either of those.

[Nobleshield]

I just did the 2nd wing a little bit ago. I zoned in and the group was at 3x stacks on Galakras, so I was expecting the worst. Had I think one wipe or so as people figured out what to do, then dead. Iron Jugg same thing, two wipes as people were getting used to the fights. Dark Shaman is a cluster-f of a fight and took several more wipes with all the crap going on. Nazgrim people seemed to just forget about the adds, so after two wipes I had spent about 2 and a half hours in there so I said screw it and politely left.

[Schizoide]

Again, it's week one. Last week the first LFR was horrible, 5-6 stacks minimum on Norushen. This week I haven't gone over 3 on him yet. I even had two one-shots!

[Raain]

Not trying to be mean here... But if someone pulls under 10k DPS in any gear that has the correct primary stats on it and requires level 90, he deserves to be kicked, because even simply spamming your filler spell will net you so much more than that. Hell, I bet that if I took my keyboard, put it on the ground, and just put my foot on the general area that my keybinds are in, I'd be able to pull over 10k in T14 LFR gear.

This isn't even me bashing bad players for not doing good DPS: Those guys must have been AFKing 100%... And they probably even had determination buff.

TLDR: There is no way in hell you can do under 10k DPS if you're not AFK for the majority of the fight, I hope you were exaggerating.

you make me laugh really bad at this time i might woke up my roommates..

[Yunru]

Some1 needs to make a addon to show who damages nazagrim in defense stance. So i can start kicking morons that dont listen .

Anyway in total: Dragon wipes 6 (i joined the raid at 4th)
Scorpio fight 1 wipe -- killed him on enrage
Dark shamans 4 wipes ... also enrage
Nazagrim....5 wipes (we had to kick like 10 people dpsing boss in defense)

[Selindae]

LFR Naz'Grim is a literal train wreck.

[Arainie]

The LFR crying is hilarious, I feed on their tears >: D

[Tziva]

Blizzard need to nerf some boss or increase the ILVL req to enter for the next wings, 496 is fine for the first wing, but when you face a dps race like dark shaman or nazgrim and there is people doing 20-30k dps you will need 5 stack of determination to kill it i only see problems. so yea the second wing in lfr is over tunned for 496 gear.

The ilvl requirement might be too low or the wing might be overtuned, but if you have a bunch of people in your raid seriously doing 20k-30k DPS only, the problem isn't that their gear is shitty, the problem is that they are half afk or just autoattacking. No amount of gear checking will fix that.

[Marxman]

I had a pretty awful group late last night on Galakras that ended up wiping 4 or 5 times before I left. The problem is fairly obvious, you need a semi-intelligent group for the towers, which in an LFR is damn near a miracle.

Yes, I realize the towers are a total joke for anyone with a brain. The problem is that 90% of LFR players are devoid of brains, or are simply too lazy to use their brain.

The outgoing damage on Dark Shamans seemed a tad overtuned as well. I got 1-shotted by a tornado that landed in melee and hit me twice in about a second. Earthbreaker's tank ability seemed to hit VERY hard as well, even with decent(ish) tank swaps.

[Normie]

If you're opposed to reading strats or watching videos because of "immersion" then figuring out as you go is exactly what you are supposed to be doing. There should then be no extra description of events aside from ability reference in the Dungeon Journal by your logic because that takes away from game immersion. Every strat someone made is made by them trying things out and really that's the only way you can do a real "immersion".

There should be visual or audio or ??? cues to guide players into the overall presumptive strategy for the fight.

LFR isn't a place where it's appropriate to expect groups to learn extensively by wiping, because unlike an organized group composed of a stable core of members, which wipes a few times and learns the dance and rarely wipes again, every LFR group is a brand new group and there is no real memory from one group to the next. So LFR encounters need to be designed so that they can be learned on the fly, not by scrolling through the combat log after death.

In the case of Nazgrim, there could be an animation/spell effect that "encourages" your attack when you are "supposed" to attack Nazgrim, and "discourages" it when you're not supposed to. Maybe he could grunt painfully if you're doing the right thing and laugh at you if you're doing the wrong thing. Or ...? Whatever.

You could also have a little imp on your shoulder whispering into your ear (a little more immersively than DBM) "MONSTERS ATTACK FROM BEHIND!"

[clevin]

I'm pretty sure the increase in experience will be almost entirely irrelevant. No one is going to change their skill much from doing two wings of LFR.

Good job ignoring that they'll get upgrades. You never really discuss anything, you just spout your points over and over.

Face it, most people will run the first 2 wings, get some upgrades and be far past 496 in 2-4 weeks. Right now? it's an issue. A month from now? It won't be an issue since people will either have geared up or not be doing LFR.

[Nobleshield]

There should be visual or audio or ??? cues to guide players into the overall presumptive strategy for the fight.

LFR isn't a place where it's appropriate to expect groups to learn extensively by wiping, because unlike an organized group composed of a stable core of members, which wipes a few times and learns the dance and rarely wipes again, every LFR group is a brand new group and there is no real memory from one group to the next. So LFR encounters need to be designed so that they can be learned on the fly, not by scrolling through the combat log after death.

In the case of Nazgrim, there could be an animation/spell effect that "encourages" your attack when you are "supposed" to attack Nazgrim, and "discourages" it when you're not supposed to. Maybe he could grunt painfully if you're doing the right thing and laugh at you if you're doing the wrong thing. Or ...? Whatever.

You could also have a little imp on your shoulder whispering into your ear (a little more immersively than DBM) "MONSTERS ATTACK FROM BEHIND!"

The way to handle this is to have an NPC help you out in the fight in some useless autoattacking manner, and doing that kind of thing.

[Siri]

You could also have a little imp on your shoulder whispering into your ear (a little more immersively than DBM) "MONSTERS ATTACK FROM BEHIND!"

If that got introduced I'm sure what would happen is that everyone would attack the boss from the front because "I'm not a monster"

[lopk]

Meh, I personally think it's fine. From the runs I've done of it so far (which obviously hasn't been many), people will die regardless of if the fire is dealing X or Y damage. I feel that bosses have a little bit too much health - as a healer I end up asking myself "when is this going to be done?" - but I feel the majority of the problems will fix themselves with more experience and gear.

[kamuimac]

just ...cant ..wait ... for ..thok ..lfr ...

[cyqu]

I don't know whether it will sort itself out or whether we will see (more) nerfs later in the week.

But I guess we'll know pretty soon.

Blizzard needs to figure out a better way to immersively describe encounters. Dungeon Journal is a terrible way to learn about an encounter (it's a useful way to learn a detail about an ability). I'm opposed to watching videos and reading "strats" as a player who is interested in the immersion of the game.
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all the trash before each boss that almost always shows some part of the encounter? or you know you could just learn it like its supposed to be done read the DJ form a strat based on said dungeon journal and pull it till you understand.

[Osmeric]

Good job ignoring that they'll get upgrades. You never really discuss anything, you just spout your points over and over.

I have no obligation to quote, or even discuss, everything in any post I respond to. It's narcissistic of you to insist otherwise.