SoO World First Thread

[Martinussen]

I have to disagree - either that, or I don't play with any of those weak links. Do some of the raiders in our guild take longer to learn a new boss, or deal with a mechanic, than others do? Sure. Some are just better than others. But do they EVENTUALLY learn it? Yes, yes they do. Therefore, time is a direct limiter to progress. Can it be improved upon by getting better players instead of the ones who are slow to learn? Absolutely. Is it a neccessity? No, if you throw more attempts at a boss, at one point or another it'll become second nature, and the skill of the individual won't matter.

and im not disagreeing. But if you want to go from a top 300 guild to a top 10 world wide, you need to replace those people to jump the ladders.

[Dracodraco]

and im not disagreeing. But if you want to go from a top 300 guild to a top 10 world wide, you need to replace those people to jump the ladders.

That's true, but I'm not 100% sure that's what REM/NSS did. NSS for example, was "low" ranked in 25 man, but extremely high in 10 man, and they fused with another very high ranked 10 man guild. The fact that they had a low rank was just because they had to transistion from 10 to 25, and thus got the kills late.
As for REM, I'm not sure - but I think alot of the same was valid for REM's ToT progress.

[Martinussen]

That's true, but I'm not 100% sure that's what REM/NSS did. NSS for example, was "low" ranked in 25 man, but extremely high in 10 man, and they fused with another very high ranked 10 man guild. The fact that they had a low rank was just because they had to transistion from 10 to 25, and thus got the kills late.
As for REM, I'm not sure - but I think alot of the same was valid for REM's ToT progress.

they formed before ToT. We killed 12/16 on 25HC.
I think it was two 10 mans or 1 10 man + a crashed 25 man guild that merged (i wasn't in either guild, but joined during the merge). We started out by doing Vaults on 25 hc, and then doing the rest of the raids in the raid groups we had pre merge. Slowly we started doing more and more of the bosses in the final 25 man hc team, to get used to the new enviroment, people, fights etc. We never got around to doing springs as it wasn't deemed worth it to spend time to learn fights and clear it before ToT landed (was already cleared by another 25hc guild). In ToT we only did 25HC.

I can only recognise about 13 of the people from their Blackfuse kill, so alot of people have either been replaced or rerolled or name changed

[cyqu]

So you're saying the only reason they're #1 is that all the better guilds have better things to do these days? I think you have a point there.

not at all, method has earned the number 1 spot, the roster they have now is debatably the strongest ever if you really go in and break it down. it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they are dominating.

[Deleted]

I have to disagree - either that, or I don't play with any of those weak links. Do some of the raiders in our guild take longer to learn a new boss, or deal with a mechanic, than others do? Sure. Some are just better than others. But do they EVENTUALLY learn it? Yes, yes they do. Therefore, time is a direct limiter to progress. Can it be improved upon by getting better players instead of the ones who are slow to learn? Absolutely. Is it a neccessity? No, if you throw more attempts at a boss, at one point or another it'll become second nature, and the skill of the individual won't matter.

As i said when you get to certain bosses(RLY hard bosses) you get to the point of the only chance for those people to kill it is getting more gear because they just dont have the skills to do it, it doesnt matter if you raid 18 hours a day, if you are bad, you are bad. Obviously the matter of where the boss is impossible is only the case on the real hard bosses and i actually know several guilds who are in the exact situation i have been talking about but i dont have to go in to any names but it is definately the case and those guilds kind of prove it in my eyes atleast.

[Axxy]

not at all, method has earned the number 1 spot, the roster they have now is debatably the strongest ever if you really go in and break it down. it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they are dominating.

That's as maybe, but the likes of Method, BL and Paragon etc. are motivated by being World First when new raid content is released or why else bother raiding 12 hours+/day trying to achieve that.

That won't be happening now if guilds can gear up in 25man, aren't geared enough to kill the last couple of bosses and switch to 10man where their ilvl gear gives a huge advantage.

Effectively, the World First race is now over and will continue like that into future expansions (unless Blizzard changes things). Unless the top guilds are happy just being Asia/US/EU/25/10 first or whatever, Method and BL at least could at least say WF 25man (but still 2nd) if they get it, but the 10man guilds have got nothing to really go for now, apart from US or EU 1st and World 2nd, possibly 3rd if there's a 25man kill before them.

I now wonder if the top guilds are going to see a decline in their rosters if effectively they aren't going to be competing on a level playing field for World First?

[Gondlem]

I really don't think the members of Method/BL/Paragon think of the race as being "over" or really care at all about some asian 10 man killing a boss aimed at a different raid size with a bunch of extra gear. It just isn't relevant.

[Hulkovius]

I really don't think the members of Method/BL/Paragon think of the race as being "over" or really care at all about some asian 10 man killing a boss aimed at a different raid size with a bunch of extra gear. It just isn't relevant.

Pretty much this. The EU and US guilds havent given up at all. The World first race tracked by Wowprogress and manaflask among others is not over yet. And thats the race we are interested in. Its like a metaphor to World Cup in Football, China(with over 1 billion ppl) hosting one of their own and the rest of the western world participates in another one.

Which one would interest u the most? Would u call their "world first" the real world first(world champions what ever) or not? (Perhaps a bad metaphor but its my point that matters).

[Ryian]

I heard REM got world 10th cos of their new Raid Leader is crazy amazing...

[Deleted]

World 2nd 25H Kalaxxi kill
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/m...eId=0_06_02_99
warrior warlock priest POV
as always plz DO NOT WATCH if you think Asia isnt part of the world race, no point to watch someone already out of the race isnt it
enjoy

grats.
Edit. That fight looks so awesome

[Deleted]

There is no real worldfirst anymore. We are now looking for Westfirst and Asiafirst. You cant call a race worldfirstrace if not all of the wow community participate under the sane rules. We need to seperate them. Its not a worldfirst with only eu/us in a pot.

[Axxy]

Pretty much this. The EU and US guilds havent given up at all. The World first race tracked by Wowprogress and manaflask among others is not over yet. And thats the race we are interested in. Its like a metaphor to World Cup in Football, China(with over 1 billion ppl) hosting one of their own and the rest of the western world participates in another one.

Which one would interest u the most? Would u call their "world first" the real world first(world champions what ever) or not? (Perhaps a bad metaphor but its my point that matters).

Personally speaking, no, but it's irrelevant what I think.

But the fact still remains, Garrosh has already been killed whether we agree with it or not. Also, World First suggests that US/EU does not constitute "the world". Bit like Americans calling whoever wins the Superbowl world champions when they are the only country competing.

Not really a world first if it's been downed already, it's a bit like the 10man vs 25man debate whether 10man is real raiding?

[Deleted]

it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they are dominating.

Exactly, when the best are all gone, the rest become the best by default. You're not the only one who thinks this, I'm sure.

[Foto]

Got sacked cus i were holding the guild back and were a bit of a cunt so i havent raided in a long time.

Some guilds that have the pure mindset of down bosses idc who you are just fucking perform, and it gets the job done for the players that are looking for that sort of environment.

@ Martinussen not trying to troll here but I do find it funny that you were kicked from a raiding guild for what appears to be lack of performance or lack of "success" on the raiding field and your personal forum note or w.e its called is a motivational video from ET about success :P lulz

[Deleted]

No it isn't irrelevant. They won ASIA world first, which is a COMPLETELY different race because of the difference in their raid structure. Part of the reason they GOT that kill was because of the higher gear, so I fail to see how that is irrelevant.

Well it is not like EU/US top guilds didnt had access to these servers so yeah... it is irrelevant. It is EU/US players own fault for playing with a handicap on servers that are limited. Being competetive is being competetive, even if it means dealing with stick bush language in order to be competetive.

[ghotihook]

Well it is not like EU/US top guilds didnt had access to these servers so yeah... it is irrelevant. It is EU/US players own fault for playing with a handicap on servers that are limited. Being competetive is being competetive, even if it means dealing with stick bush language in order to be competetive.

No, it's a different race. If a 4-man bobslead team is faster than a 2-man on the same track. It doesn't make the 4-man team more skilled or better.

[Deleted]

not at all, method has earned the number 1 spot, the roster they have now is debatably the strongest ever if you really go in and break it down. it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they are dominating.

They have also extensively "leeched" players from other top guilds, essentially weakening their competition (something that Blood Legion does on the US side as well). That was something that e.g Paragon couldn't have done.

[Martinussen]

Some guilds that have the pure mindset of down bosses idc who you are just fucking perform, and it gets the job done for the players that are looking for that sort of environment.

@ Martinussen not trying to troll here but I do find it funny that you were kicked from a raiding guild for what appears to be lack of performance or lack of "success" on the raiding field and your personal forum note or w.e its called is a motivational video from ET about success :P lulz

Well, to be fair i was getting burned out. My would be completely booked because of raiding, and i knew i would have to chose between doing well in school and having friends this semester or continuing to raid at school campus.

I started to perform worse because i slowly got more and more tired of raiding and i knew i had more important things coming my way in life. If raiding was the thing i lived for, i would have performed better, and not been such dick so i could still be raiding.

- - - Updated - - -

I heard REM got world 10th cos of their new Raid Leader is crazy amazing...

I cant even remember who was the raid leader before. was it scripe or hayek or ediel? Either way, you seem to be doing great as the new raid leader (i presume that you're the new raid leader ?)

[Deleted]

No, it's a different race. If a 4-man bobslead team is faster than a 2-man on the same track. It doesn't make the 4-man team more skilled or better.

It makes a 4-man bobslead team better in terms of organization if the 2-man on the same track refused to pick up 2 more people.

Once again. It is EU/US top guild's own fault for choosing to play in an inferior enviourment. World first means first in the entire world and last time I checked Asia belongs to the planet Earth to which we reffer to as the world.

INFRACTED: There have been several warnings on the thread to KNOCK IT OFF with the Asia vs. US/EU posts. -Nobleshield

[Axelond]

Blizzards internal testing team probably killed this boss tons of times already, They might have had 590 ilvl or GM one shot commands but apparently that does not matter so gratz to blizzards internal testing team for WF garrosh!