If this is how LFR is going to be from now on, I don't see the reason in keeping it.

[Glorious Leader]

You are absolutely correct that there are many ways out there to get weapons. But if you can get into SoO LFR with a 450 weapon, why would you bother?

Theirs more ways to get shitty weapons. If the point is that 496 probably isn't enough ilvl especially when the weighting of the weapon is not fully taken into account then then offering players shitty weapons doesn't help.

[velde046]

blizz need to find a way to encourage people to stay on and kill the bosses they've already done, and the 45 valor certainly isnt enough. Perhaps having bosses youve already looted always drop a fail bag so there is atleast something to get from killing it again.

So 45 Vp is not good enough but a 'failbag' with 40g would with a potion or flask? I'd take VP over gold anyday of the week, even if I did not have anything to spend it on immediately...

[khalltusk]

So 45 Vp is not good enough but a 'failbag' with 40g would with a potion or flask? I'd take VP over gold anyday of the week, even if I did not have anything to spend it on immediately...

Im desparate for more gold my shamans draining me of cash XD gief gold bag!

[Extremity]

The only reason LFR "worked" is because there were a lot of decent players who felt forced to play it for a variety of reasons, and they carried all the baddies.

Now with a huge chunk of those players no longer feel forced to play it, and as such LFR has lost a ton of the players who were carrying the dead weight and now it's just the dead weight.

This is just how it has to be though, it's bad design to force people to do something they don't like because others can't cut it.

They can and will just nerf LFR even more until it's basically impossible to fail at.

I love when people make broad statements regarding the playstyle and habits of literally millions of players as if they've got market research data they've been studying. Who are you to make ANY of these statements? Even if they're true for you and literally EVERY player you know, congratulations, that's less than a quarter of a percent of players. I'm sorry you feel that way about LFR, but that doesn't make any random crap you spew about who uses it and why they use it any less fictional.

[HeedmySpeed]

If LFR success rates drop as a result of most players choosing to do Flex then the difficulty will be brought down.


If that doesn't happen it's because Blizzard doesn't want you in LFR, they want you in Flex.


Stop crying and do Flex seems to be the best decision as of this moment.

[Heladys]

Personal anecdotes from running different toons. Yadda yadda grain of salt blahblah no meaningful conclusions:

Tuesday, the second wing was not bad as there were still heavy amounts of higher-end raiders there to lead the way. Still plenty of wipes but more control. Lots of 3-5 stack fights.

Wednesday, the world went to hell - fewer quality raiders meant a dramatic escalation in wipe rates and general fail attitudes. I quit out of frustration. Poked tentatively through Thursday and Friday and could not handle the rampant stupidity. Every bad player was sporting a "honey badger don't give a ####" attitude whenever corrections were suggested to deal with encounter mechanics (politely suggested, mind you). 8-10 stacks of determination were common.

By Monday, most of the terribads seem to have either rotated through or heard that LFR was now too hard for them, because quality started to swing back up noticably. Back down to one-shots and occasional 2-3 stacks.

I'm interested (and dreading) finding out how things are going to go today with the new reset.

[Pann]

If LFR success rates drop as a result of most players choosing to do Flex then the difficulty will be brought down.


If that doesn't happen it's because Blizzard doesn't want you in LFR, they want you in Flex.


Stop crying and do Flex seems to be the best decision as of this moment.

I believe it is more likely people will drop out of the whole raid system rather than steeping up to the more difficult Flex raids.

[Grubjuice]

I believe it is more likely people will drop out of the whole raid system rather than steeping up to the more difficult Flex raids.

i don't think ultimately that Flex and LFR will necessarily compete for players to each other's mutual detriment,

rather there will be four groups of raider: primarily LFR raider, Primarily Flex raider, Primarily Normal raider and Primarily raiders. with players of all groups occasionally bleeding into their adjacent groups. i think all four niches can co-exist.

[Pann]

i don't think ultimately that Flex and LFR will necessarily compete for players to each other's mutual detriment,

rather there will be four groups of raider: primarily LFR raider, Primarily Flex raider, Primarily Normal raider and Primarily raiders. with players of all groups occasionally bleeding into their adjacent groups. i think all four niches can co-exist.

Personally I think there will be a greater cross over into Flex from normal raiders than LFR players.

[Deleted]

Well 1 is sure Nazgrim and shamans needs nerf
For nazgrim that only can be rage cap because the only reason to wipe on this encounter is because your room get filled with wirl axes that its a fact, remove this ability and boss will be fine
Shamans the most deadly thing for me was bloobs i dint die by the wall i dint die by tornadoes but for 3 tryes almost all your melee dies because of the insane damage of these
I even dint want to think how aful will be LFR when they open next wings and raid meet with spoils klaxxi malkrok and garrosh

[Grubjuice]

Personally I think there will be a greater cross over into Flex from normal raiders than LFR players.

i could see this happening,
Normal in general attracts a lower-pressure type player (at least compared to what heroic attracts); the sort of player who might enjoy the flexibility of group size and scheduling afforded by Flex.

[Ferocity]

LFR is as is now not because of Flex.

Main problem is one-shot mechanics + tight enrage. One could think that Blizzard would learn from past mistakes of putting such things into full pug environment like LFR. But no - there is abuse of tight (for LFR) enrage timers with tons of 1-shot mechanics. In the past it was only Elegon and Durumu. In SoO it is everywhere.

Though I must admit that people in LFR became worse in general, main problems lies in what I wrote above.

And Blizzard must do something extremely fast, right this day/week or something, as it has gigantic domino-effect. Queues become longer each passing day as people just leave in frustration and don't want to spend 5 hours in one LFR after hour+ queue. The longer Blizzard waits with it, the more harm will be done.

[Grubjuice]

Well 1 is sure Nazgrim and shamans needs nerf
For nazgrim that only can be rage cap because the only reason to wipe on this encounter is because your room get filled with wirl axes that its a fact, remove this ability and boss will be fine
Shamans the most deadly thing for me was bloobs i dint die by the wall i dint die by tornadoes but for 3 tryes almost all your melee dies because of the insane damage of these
I even dint want to think how aful will be LFR when they open next wings and raid meet with spoils klaxxi malkrok and garrosh

i am trying imagine what mental accent i should use to read your idiosyncratic spelling, , , and i can't place it.

[Osmeric]

And Blizzard must do something extremely fast, right this day/week or something, as it has gigantic domino-effect. Queues become longer each passing day as people just leave in frustration and don't want to spend 5 hours in one LFR after hour+ queue. The longer Blizzard waits with it, the more harm will be done.

Perhaps this is just an experiment to see how many people will move up to Flex, if pushed.

Me? I just downloaded oQueue.

[IIamaKing]

I have yet to see the first boss in SoO. Always put in on 2nd boss wipe fests. Which turn into waiting for new people to come in after 1 wipe. SO pull, wipe 3 people drop wait 10 min to replace, in that 10 min 3 more people drop. 90 min later I give up and log out, I have yet to finish the first wing. I am going to try in earnest today but I do not have much hope. I have canceled my sub over this, LFR is all I get to do for raiding and I cannot even do that because of how it is going now.

[ReklessJonez]

The issue with the state of LFR isn't overtuning. More like ppl not paying attention to the actual fight mechanics. I honestly feel like ppl should stop complaining and get better. Simple solution And as far as getting stuck in a group with (4+)Determination stacks or No tanks is a result of BAD players.
My gear is alright I still have to run LFR and it's the same thing every week; PPL ignore adds, don't interrupt, taunt on time, Flare for Nazgrim Assassins, The list goes on and on and on. So for ppl to be like "Nerf this because we can't clear it". Takes away from the integrity of the game. LFR=EASYMODE. Flex=Intermediate and then NM and HM. If easy mode is too hard for ppl... just play another game.

Side note: The way to fix LFR would be to stop awarding loot to ppl who die. I think ppl would be more inclined to try and learn the fights if they knew they had to live to get loot. Its not that hard to stay alive in LFR.

[Pann]

Perhaps this is just an experiment to see how many people will move up to Flex, if pushed.

Me? I just downloaded oQueue.

That seems like a massive gamble especially as all they have to fall back on is the Timeless Isle if players decide not to move up to Flex.

- - - Updated - - -

Side note: The way to fix LFR would be to stop awarding loot to ppl who die. I think ppl would be more inclined to try and learn the fights if they knew they had to live to get loot. Its not that hard to stay alive in LFR.

Whilst this idea might fix LFR I have a feeling that the number of people around to see it will be considerably smaller than the present LFR population.

[Vulcanasm]

First of all, let me get to this point first.

1.) Has anyone else seen an INCREASE in chance of joining an lfr ALREADY IN PROGRESS? I don't WANT THAT. I want a FRESH RUN.

My main point.

2.) I am sitting in an LFR, an LFR that was already in progress btw, and we get to the trash for the Korkron Shaman boss. Two of the tanks leave. I am now waiting with 20+ other people for new tanks. 10 Mins pass - nothing.

20 mins pass - nothing.

People start to leave.

I am now sitting in an LFR with 3 people, still in queue, 30 min later.

If this is how LFR is after Flex is introduced, I want it removed from the game. It's a waste of resources.

I've also noticed a huge decrease in LFR player quality.

Decided to try the first LFRs on my alt last week...Nazgrim turns into a wipefest, and at 3 stacks of Tenacity we die to his enrage. I notice 2 DPS doing 100k+ and everyone else below 70k (at +15% damage). So I start inspecting the DPS, starting with the 24k Warlock. Sure enough, 80% of the DPS are wearing Timeless Isle welfare with 0 gems or enchants anywhere. The Warlock has mostly +hit gear (31% hit) and her only gem is a red +160 Strength in her belt. There's also a DPS Warrior whose only gem is a blue quality BC Spirit/Stam gem jammed into a yellow socket.

I start asking them how they think they're going to down bosses when they do average DPS for Cataclysm, and suddenly it's "lol lookit the LFR hero" (arithmetic = elitism! I love you, TeaBillies!) and "fuck you kid" (kid? I'm old enough to be your dad! You make me so glad I wore condoms). At some point a guy called us all "n*ggers" after doing less healing on a Disc Priest than I did on my Blood DK.

I'd heard stories of LFR facerollers before, but the problem is Flex has left only the droolers behind.

[Osmeric]

That seems like a massive gamble especially as all they have to fall back on is the Timeless Isle if players decide not to move up to Flex.

I'm not sure how much of a gamble it really is. People who stick to LFR are going to tend to lose motivation to keep grinding it after they've cleared it once, even if LFR were easier.

[Pann]

I'm not sure how much of a gamble it really is. People who stick to LFR are going to tend to lose motivation to keep grinding it after they've cleared it once, even if LFR were easier.

I am not so sure of this I think that many LFR players are as invested in their gear treadmill as normal raiders and it is once they complete their gear that lose the motivation either way it seems rather risky to try to force players into Flex.