With Flex now available, should Blizzard keep LFR in the next EXP?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Try again, not everyone who does LFR is a "bad".

2 people run LFR now that flex is the easy casual raiding style.

1. Bads

2. People who cannot find a raid or PuG to save their life.

[The Glitch]

2 people run LFR now that flex is the easy casual raiding style.

1. Bads

2. People who cannot find a raid or PuG to save their life.

3. People that have awkward hours that fit no guilds raid schedule or pugs.

4. People that don't wish to set their gametime to a raid schedule.

And there are probably many other different situations.

I know I am no.3

[Flaks]

Anyone with working brain cells knows that LFR and Flex address different issues.

Flex can and does address all of the same issues as LFR without watering down the content and destroying the community at the same time. The ONLY difference between the 2 is that one holds you accountable for your actions (or lack their of) while the other doesn't.

I've said this many times before. Had Blizzard stuck with the WotLK raiding model of normal modes being very easily puggable, there would never ever in a million years have been a need to implement LFR.

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3. People that have awkward hours that fit no guilds raid schedule or pugs.

4. People that don't wish to set their gametime to a raid schedule.

And there are probably many other different situations.

I know I am no.3

Flex raids do NOT function around a raid schedule. What don't you understand about the idea of "pugging raids". And were there to be a global (cross realm) chat channel for finding said pugs (like...I don't know, oQueue?) you would never ever want for LFR again.

[threads]

A better design would be to replace normal with flex. It would make the most sense seeing as LFR keeps a majority of the casuals busy throughout the patch. Normal is mostly irrelevant at this point because guilds either do it once then go heroic or they struggle to barely finish. It would also help cut down on the raid difficulties and tone down the ilvl jumps between tiers.

[Matt0193]

If the quality of LFRs in general remain this poor, then no. Unless you're clearing LFR on reset day, you're likely to get a bunch of clueless or lazy muppets who simply expect loot to fall into their hands. I actually wiped in ToT, while trying to get the last of my Secrets (Not played for a few months, so I'm vastly behind on the Legendary), repeatedly to Horridon because there were only 4 of us on the adds. That's fine until they decide its smart to ignore the now overwhelming number of adds and then also ignore the War God. 3 times this happened, so pointless. If people would understand how fights are supposed to be done months after their release, LFR would be so much better.

I just don't know what drives people to be so fucking moronic in LFR, no wonder the queues are longer with more and more people skipping LFR in favour of Flex runs.

[Mormolyce]

I'm not nor have I ever been a Heroic raider. And for the most part, heroic raiders are far more concerned with simply progressing and doing so by any means necessary than watered down content/gear. So my post was more aimed at the vast majority of raiders: people who do LFR or Flex or Normal Mode and are very likely to compare the 3 in their minds and begin to regret playing the same game 3 times.

That's my point, if you want the prestige of a kill then raid Heroic. Or normal if that's enough for you. If you don't care about such things, LFR and Flex are there for you.

The game has a range of raiding options and if you don't like the one you're doing, it's because you're making the wrong choice.

[Flaks]

That's my point, if you want the prestige of a kill then raid Heroic. Or normal if that's enough for you. If you don't care about such things, LFR and Flex are there for you.

The game has a range of raiding options and if you don't like the one you're doing, it's because you're making the wrong choice.

I could definitely enjoy having say...a Gorehowl from Karazhan or Dragon Spine Trophy from Gruul without seeing 4 different versions of it around everywhere. And this was in patch 2.4. Why are there 4 different versions of Hellscream's Mannoroth Tusk Shoulders available? How does that not water it down for the casual player.

The Heroic player concerns himself with the numbers more than the item. "Lesser" players are more often in it for the world and what's in that world is my argument here.

[Mormolyce]

Flex raids do NOT function around a raid schedule. What don't you understand about the idea of "pugging raids". And were there to be a global (cross realm) chat channel for finding said pugs (like...I don't know, oQueue?) you would never ever want for LFR again.

Depends. You still need to sit down for an indeterminate amount of time, both while the group is forming and during the raid. Unlike say LFR where you can queue and afk, and quit at any time (LFR is also faster and requires less concentration - at least it will be once the "new wing blues" are over). Much easier to fit around a sporadic schedule.

Like my wife will often say "let's watch something" when I'm halfway through a raid of some kind, and if it's not LFR I'll have to say "can't now, raiding". And I'll be off in a few hours. That can be shitty.

[hablix]

Other: leave it in, but re-tune it as a 25-player scenario with a similar loot system. The reward bag at the end should have a chance to drop loot comparable to the associated Flex tier.

[Mormolyce]

I could definitely enjoy having say...a Gorehowl from Karazhan or Dragon Spine Trophy from Gruul without seeing 4 different versions of it around everywhere. And this was in patch 2.4. Why are there 4 different versions of Hellscream's Mannoroth Tusk Shoulders available? How does that not water it down for the casual player.

The Heroic player concerns himself with the numbers more than the item. "Lesser" players are more often in it for the world and what's in that world is my argument here.

Eh, I have no sympathy for people who use gear to measure e-peens. The fun of the game is killing bosses not walking up to other people and saying HEY SCRUB I'M BETTER THAN YOU.

[The Glitch]

Flex raids do NOT function around a raid schedule. What don't you understand about the idea of "pugging raids". And were there to be a global (cross realm) chat channel for finding said pugs (like...I don't know, oQueue?) you would never ever want for LFR again.

What part of *I don't have the schedule to hang around looking for pugs for flexi raids or normals raids, so I LFR instead* do you not get? I often have to suddenly log mid way through stuff I'm doing, is that fair to these pug groups? Why should I install even more addons when there is a perfectly good LFR queuing system?

I like LFR because I can log on at any time of day and get a group, do my stuff and log off or do other things I enjoy too.

[Lord Blackmore]

Flex can and does address all of the same issues as LFR without watering down the content and destroying the community at the same time. The ONLY difference between the 2 is that one holds you accountable for your actions (or lack their of) while the other doesn't.

You're not going to get anywhere with that -wrong- argument. LFR addresses the issue of people who don't have a lot of time to raid or can't allocate contiguous blocks of time to doing one thing. People can come and go as the please in LFR and nobody cares. Someone who did that in a flex pug raid would quickly get the reputation that they're not reliable.

Flex cannot replace LFR. This is an immutable fact.

Flex raids do NOT function around a raid schedule. What don't you understand about the idea of "pugging raids". And were there to be a global (cross realm) chat channel for finding said pugs (like...I don't know, oQueue?) you would never ever want for LFR again.

How about you don't tell other people what they would and wouldn't want?

[The Glitch]

Like my wife will often say "let's watch something" when I'm halfway through a raid of some kind, and if it's not LFR I'll have to say "can't now, raiding". And I'll be off in a few hours. That can be shitty.

Exactly, and these days if my husband asks if I fancy going out to eat or go watch a movie while I am ingame doing anything, I will drop the game like a hot potato gladly, even if I was guild raiding, because the game isn't as important or rather priority for me now, like it was when i was younger and had more free time and less strings attached to my life.

I love being able to play but not feel I *need* to be online, and I wouldn't want to cause another 24 or 9 people problems because I suddenly had to leave.

[Lord Blackmore]

What part of *I don't have the schedule to hang around looking for pugs for flexi raids or normals raids, so I LFR instead* do you not get?

I know the answer: none.

Flaks simply doesn't get that there are aspects of LFR that can't be replaced with Flex.

[jbombard]

People have a huge misconception about why LFR exists. It isn't to see the content, it is to get as many people as possible to do the same content over and over again. Because it is cheaper for Blizzard if they can keep people busy without actually having to make stuff for them.

If Blizzard thought people would actually do them they would have 10 levels of the same content and say progression is LFR ->More keyboard and less face -> I read a guide once -> Sub Normal->Almost Normal->Normal-> I wanna be a hero when I grow up-> Heroic -> Masochistic -> Even too painful for the masochists

The reason we don't have more modes is people just wouldn't do them. So long as there are people that will run LFR it will exist because that means Blizzard doesn't have to make content for those people who would be bored without it.

[The Glitch]

I know the answer: none.

Flaks simply doesn't get that there are aspects of LFR that can't be replaced with Flex.

It honestly confuses me so much that people can't understand that everyones lives are different, and what seems totally doable in terms of fitting in scheduled raiding for them, is not always possible or wanted by others.

I'm doing no one any harm when I log in, I go about my business with no fuss, do the things I enjoy , help my friends, chat have fun, do LFR, and feel like I have accomplished something in my gametime, why do people see that as bad? Or rather *wrong* just because it's not what they think I should be doing? Because it's not how they would do it? /sigh

[TheWindWalker]

The fact that the "No"s are as high as they are shows how out-of-touch and short-sighted many many of our forum goers are. Getting rid of LFR would drive WoW into a F2P death spiral faster than you can say "BC was best!"

[Sinndra]

I could definitely enjoy having say...a Gorehowl from Karazhan or Dragon Spine Trophy from Gruul without seeing 4 different versions of it around everywhere. And this was in patch 2.4. Why are there 4 different versions of Hellscream's Mannoroth Tusk Shoulders available? How does that not water it down for the casual player.

The Heroic player concerns himself with the numbers more than the item. "Lesser" players are more often in it for the world and what's in that world is my argument here.

i think the problem is not that we have 4 different difficulties of one raid, but that each raid only rewards with a different visual color item. instead of trying to get Blizzard to remove raid difficulties, focus your efforts in getting Blizzard to make more gearsets, one gearset for each difficulty.

item levels can stay as is. you can progress the same in each raid difficulty as we can now, just we would earn differently items visually.

[Otimus]

2 people run LFR now that flex is the easy casual raiding style.

1. Bads

2. People who cannot find a raid or PuG to save their life.

Well, that, or people just don't like organized activities. (Which seems to be the case for most people)

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Flex can and does address all of the same issues as LFR without watering down the content and destroying the community at the same time. The ONLY difference between the 2 is that one holds you accountable for your actions (or lack their of) while the other doesn't.

I've said this many times before. Had Blizzard stuck with the WotLK raiding model of normal modes being very easily puggable, there would never ever in a million years have been a need to implement LFR.

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Flex raids do NOT function around a raid schedule. What don't you understand about the idea of "pugging raids". And were there to be a global (cross realm) chat channel for finding said pugs (like...I don't know, oQueue?) you would never ever want for LFR again.

Even when WOTLK raids were very easily puggable, not a whole many people did it.

What you're ignoring is, is that the REAL difference is, is that you can queue for LFR, and do it whenever you want to without having to depend on other people deeming you worthy to look at a part of the game. That's the main appeal, and the reverse is why raiding has never been a high user activity :x

[cityguy193]

No, no LFR at all.
They can make flex slightly easier I guess, but that should be the standard for casual raiding.