"540+ have 14/14 Normal Experience" for Flex, seriously.

[Sillychan]

If you want a smooth run, experience is FAR more important than item level. A player that has HC ToT gear but just started playing in 5.4 will cause more wipes than the average normal alt/ Flex 11/14 experienced player, I guarantee you. Even if you're really good read up most players will cause a few wipes by just standing at the wrong place as newcomers.

I disagree to an extent. If this was true, you wouldn't have seen many guilds go full clear the first week or two (I know mine did) in normal.

People with heroic ToT gear on know their class, and are generally capable of following simple instructions.

Most of the issues I've had in flex was low dps/terrible healing/terrible tanking. Player competency.

[Hyve]

Small drop? What? FLEXI is bloody easier then lfr.

No, it isn't.

Looking for Raid removes several mechanics per fight, 90% of the encounters even at 25 Man can be solo healed and solo tanked, and I speak from experience.

The only factor that might make Looking for Raid seem harder, is the lack of communication. Flexible Teams tend to be far more organised, you have the option to vet who you let join your group so you can make sure they know what they're doing.

Sorry, but Flexible Raiding is not easier then Looking for Raid, it has been built and developed that way, and that is the way it works.

[Belloc]

Ive killed all on normal, but I want to do flex on my alts since I dont need any loot on my main. What am I supposed to do with my alt then if everything that matter is ilvl? Oh my ilvl is only 525, then I cant do flex since the requirement is ilvl 535. That's whats silly with these kinds of requirements. just like gear check all over again. Don't you understand peoples frustration here? I used to get rejected even if I posted my main achivements -"sorry too low" or just ignore. Haha ilvl 525 too low? its just laughable

Did you miss the part where I said that there are plenty of flex raid groups available to people with your item level? 525? Try 515. I've seen tons of 515s. Try 520. Try, yes, 525.

Openraid, trade chat, oQueue. You shouldn't have a problem finding a flex raid with your item level in any of those. Maybe stop trying to get into the 535 groups when you know full well that you don't meet that one, simple requirement.

- - - Updated - - -

No, it isn't.

Looking for Raid removes several mechanics per fight, 90% of the encounters even at 25 Man can be solo healed and solo tanked, and I speak from experience.

The only factor that might make Looking for Raid seem harder, is the lack of communication. Flexible Teams tend to be far more organised, you have the option to vet who you let join your group so you can make sure they know what they're doing.

Sorry, but Flexible Raiding is not easier then Looking for Raid, it has been built and developed that way, and that is the way it works.

The difference between LFR and Flex is that you generally don't choose your raid members in LFR but you do in Flex. It's perfectly normal for a flex raid to go faster and smoother than an LFR raid.

Now, if you fill a 25-man group and queue for LFR, yeah, it's going to be easier... but no one does that anymore.

[TheWindWalker]

Also most people are like 13/14 nowadays, even 0-guild pugs in frostmourne are 11 or 12 bosses. Garrosh ach is just exaggeration.

I'm not entirely sure that single digit percentages constitute a majority.

[Mortal Strike]

This was the message i saw on openraid earlier..Seriously do these people even use their brain?

540+ for Flex 1/2/3 while having 14/14 Normal, wat.

I dont have a problem with people having requirements, but seriously.

On oQueue, I only wait list for flex raids that have a 535+ iLevel requirement. I want the runs to be quick and easy and I don't want to waste any of my time teaching people the fights.

If you don't like other people's requirements, form your own raid and make whatever requirement suits you.

[Belloc]

On oQueue, I only wait list for flex raids that have a 535+ iLevel requirement. I want the runs to be quick and easy and I don't want to waste any of my time teaching people the fights.

If you don't like other people's requirements, form your own raid and make whatever requirement suits you.

But then he'd have to do work. No one wants to do work. They want everyone else to do the work for them while still being able to make all the rules. That's what this entire thread is about.

I mean, the 535 groups are obviously the minority. You see 515 req groups all the time. 520 groups all the time. Groups that don't even mention requirements! But, no, this thread will have you believe that the only flex raid groups out there require a 535 item level and the Garrosh achievement. Sorry, but that premise is false and this thread is just another thread bitching because they didn't meet the requirement of one group that they wanted to get into. Pointless.

[melodramocracy]

I'm not entirely sure that single digit percentages constitute a majority.

Of the 5% that are 13/14, 100% of them have seen most of the raid

[Mortal Strike]

But then he'd have to do work. No one wants to do work. They want everyone else to do the work for them while still being able to make all the rules. That's what this entire thread is about.

I mean, the 535 groups are obviously the minority. You see 515 req groups all the time. 520 groups all the time. Groups that don't even mention requirements! But, no, this thread will have you believe that the only flex raid groups out there require a 535 item level and the Garrosh achievement. Sorry, but that premise is false and this thread is just another thread bitching because they didn't meet the requirement of one group that they wanted to get into. Pointless.

Exactly.

OP wanted to get into a run that would carry him, but the raid leader didn't want to carry anyone. OP got his feelings hurt and is now complaining about it instead of joining the many runs that WILL accept people like him, or starting his own run.

[kamuimac]

Its clear that people don't remember the days of pugging trade/general to form groups for Kara.

not only this but most people either forgot or didnt play long enough to rememebr how did the pugging for dungeons look like in vanilla - same stuff only then it was gathering a correct classes not gear that much cause most people were in quest greens anyway >< it was like this back then its liek this nowadays nothing changes people want smoother runs and wil get them one way or another.

[melodramocracy]

Exactly.

OP wanted to get into a run that would carry him, but the raid leader didn't want to carry anyone.

Because pug starters themselves always meet the requirements that they insist that others meet.

[Deleted]

Ive killed all on normal, but I want to do flex on my alts since I dont need any loot on my main. What am I supposed to do with my alt then if everything that matter is ilvl? Oh my ilvl is only 525, then I cant do flex since the requirement is ilvl 535. That's whats silly with these kinds of requirements. just like gear check all over again. Don't you understand peoples frustration here? I used to get rejected even if I posted my main achivements -"sorry too low" or just ignore. Haha ilvl 525 too low? its just laughable

If you've cleared 14/14 Normal, you most likely have a guild. So with that in mind, maybe you should consider doing your own runs and bring your alts to them. Then you're free to invite other like minded players of similar gear level and skill and nobody would complain. So just as you're free to do what you want, why do you complain about others having the same right?

Make your own run, if you can't meet the requirements of the average pug on your server, I really don't see the problem here. You don't have to agree, you just have to realize that it's the RL's right to set the requirements. If you do not meet said requirements, well tough luck for you.

[judgementofantonidas]

This was the message i saw on openraid earlier..Seriously do these people even use their brain?

540+ for Flex 1/2/3 while having 14/14 Normal, wat.

I dont have a problem with people having requirements, but seriously.

As many others will post, why is it wrong for people to want a quick run with minimal babysitting?

Granted as only the first three wings of Flex are available a more reasonable request would be 11/14 complete but in the end it covers the same thing. Some competent players want an easy way to ensure competency in their pugs, while others are just looking to be carried by competent players who have already completed. Either way boils down to easy run.

[Deleted]

If you want a smooth run, experience is FAR more important than item level. A player that has HC ToT gear but just started playing in 5.4 will cause more wipes than the average normal alt/ Flex 11/14 experienced player, I guarantee you. Even if you're really good read up most players will cause a few wipes by just standing at the wrong place as newcomers.

That's just BS. Our Hunter went away for 3 weeks, the beginning of the SoO and 3 weeks into progress. When he got back, we were 6/14 Heroic I believe, don't even remember it. But we brought him in on all 6 Heroic kills and he didn't cause a single wipe. I think he died once but that's it. You're underestimating the skill of players who cleared 13/13 Heroic last Tier, if you think they're so bad, that they can't follow simple instructions in a Flex run.

[potis]

Well, reaching 7 pages..Interesting.

I made the post to QQ about that because of many things.

1)Item level means jack shit.

2)Achievements mean jack shit.

Its all about the quality of the player, as Airwaves mentioned a few pages back..

Tell me how i am a horrible player cause my characters dont have the item level while i raided since the release of WoW, in WoW and every other raiding game there is for awhile to test things out, raid leading and main tanking since Vanilla, and always in a realm first or second guild while being a top 50-100 ranked guild and because of that i am so burnt out that even the idea of "Be online at 8-12" and scheduled raiding makes me cringe, i guess i am horrible because i dont have the item level.

Today in a Flex on my monk tank, which has 526/530 item level because i got the horrible Iron Juggernaut tanking trinket and i aint gonna wear that crap.. i joined a group from Oqueue, quick inspect and clicking on everyone,they were all at 550k-600k+ HP, meaning they have a big item level considering i play my monk tank with the DPS build and i only have 630K in raid, and there was some DPS as high as me, yeah they had the gear, seemed like apart from me everyone else was 540+.

We wiped cause this amazing 540+ players ninja pulled, died by pools and Swirl while doing pathetic DPS apart from 1 of them..So out of all these people only 1 DPS was actually worth his item level not to mention the other tank died by Swirl, which i had to solo tank since the first swirl to the 20% wipe since we were 5 people, myself, 3 dps and 1 healer alive since the first split, until they started leaving mid fight cause it was hopeless.

Tell me again how item level matters?

Now to the "Achievements" part.

Tell me how many people get carried in their guilds? How many bads that dont have a clue whats going on in the fight being told by their raid leader "Just dodge that ability and DPS" which dont really know why and what is going on, with the usual excuse of "Its not for me to know".

Whats the point if you have killed it before if you dont even know 50% of the fight, but only the "Dodge this ability and press 1 2 3 4 5 to DPS?"

Today i met a tank in LFR.. 900K hp Whoa, lets inspect!

550 item level+, didnt understand english at all, horrible gemming for his item level and literally almost wiped us at Shamans and Nazgrim, he died by 25 Frostbite stacks at Shamans and i had to solo tank the last 20% or so until he managed to accept the combat rez at 2% and taunt back.. since he kept taunting back no matter how many times i got it, he spawned 5 RAVAGERS at Nazgrim because i tanked it for like a minute with 10 stacks, not to mention half the raid had to spam DONT TAUNT, AND TAUNT for him to figure out what the fuck to do, and this from a 550+ player, probably a sold account or a family member player but my point remains.

TELL ME AGAIN HOW ITEM LEVEL AND ACHIEVEMENTS MATTER.

And to barackohmama

"If you bring a ToT heroic raider he will wipe you in SoO" Are you god damn serious?

I guess when i cleared Part 1 and 2 with no wipes when i had 515 item level, with the group having average DPS item level 520 apart from 1 mage i found that had 550, while finding people on their alts from a major ranked 25 world guild without even knowing what they were until after the run..We were all horrible with our 510-520 item level, thats why we 1 shotted everything.

[FluFF]

Back in my day you called a pug like this '' lets see where we get guys, hope to get some bosses ''
Nowadays people use terms like '' not gonna babysit you noob lol'' or '' don't wanna explain the fight to you scrubs '' '' bitch pls I want a faceroll run''

if you can't see how this swag 4chan kid mentality is ruining the game I feel sad for you guys.

/signed a realm 1st Ulduar / ToC / ICC / FL / DS 525 rogue who makes his own flex runs based on past raid skills and not 550+ ilvl or gtfo. ( and fyi, yes my runs are successful )

[onemanaleft]

i much prefer the runs that require 550+, they go faster

[judgementofantonidas]

Ive killed all on normal, but I want to do flex on my alts since I dont need any loot on my main. What am I supposed to do with my alt then if everything that matter is ilvl?

you can very easily link you SHARED achievement.
honestly there are are fewer people in your shoes than that CLAIM to have full cleared on an alt and are just telling lies.

[Gottalot]

Some people (such as myself) want to do Flex for gear on alts or odd pieces their mains are missing. Setting high requirements for the group means I don't have to put up with idiots who don't know how to play the game.

Just a quick glance at your achivements made me giggle. Who the fuck are you to call peeps idiots.

[Belloc]

Because pug starters themselves always meet the requirements that they insist that others meet.

If you don't like it, you are more than welcome to find another group. Complaining about it is not going to fix the problem.

Furthermore, understand that not meeting the requirements is one of the benefits that people gain from making their own groups. They're the ones filling the raid, they're the ones vetting the players. They're the ones, in short, doing all the work when it comes to setting the raid up. If you've got a problem with them not meeting the requirements, then that's YOUR problem, not theirs. Maybe make your own groups before you start complaining about other people making theirs.

Personally? I'll gladly carry someone if they're willing to go through the trouble of filling the group with good players. I certainly don't want to make the group.

[Louis CK]

If you don't like it, you are more than welcome to find another group. Complaining about it is not going to fix the problem.
Furthermore, understand that not meeting the requirements is one of the benefits that people gain from making their own groups. They're the ones filling the raid, they're the ones vetting the players. They're the ones, in short, doing all the work when it comes to setting the raid up. If you've got a problem with them not meeting the requirements, then that's YOUR problem, not theirs. Maybe make your own groups before you start complaining about other people making theirs.

Personally? I'll gladly carry someone if they're willing to go through the trouble of filling the group with good players. I certainly don't want to make the group.

Yes, but that's about the only thing keeping the MMO-C forums alive.