Nerf arms warriors thread

[brirrspliff]

[...] the class (warrior) was performing horribly, and that was a general consensus by anyone raiding beyond LFR.

i'm really curious on the mindest of you "everyone" guys. do you really believe what you think is what the vast majority thinks? or do you just get lost in meme-like speech patterns, trying to strengthen your argument with generalizations like "everyone", "always", "never", "nobody", and so on, while in reality weaken your argument with it?

You have very little clue what about what you are saying.

oh, and i think WE ALL can give that back to you. because everyone in this forums thinks you have no clue.

[meathead]

As a spriest

fuck warriors

But yes, its me who needs to learn to play. Having played rogue for some time, this whole new "fake casting" thing is something I can't quite do. Then again, fuck knows how the hell I'm supposed to do that inbetween charge stuns, fear, more stuns, probably a blade storm, spell reflect, mass spell reflect, root breakers, fear breaker, sustained damage, deep wounds, roots, slows, disrupting shout (which can be used when bladestorming), trinket, two 20/40% damage reducing abilities that can be used without concequences (unlike deterrence, ice block, dispersion), rallying cry. zzz




Granted this is from a random bg. But. Not. Fun.

Hope warriors get nerfed. Hard. Soon. Oh wait, they are fineeeeeeee, r1 viable for the first time since arenas were implemented, its just that I suck and should l2p/uninstall game.

yes, this is a rant.

"this whole new "fake casting" thing is something I can't quite do"

for you its a L2P issue nothing more then that.1st- "fake casting" is not new,its been in game since day 1.newer and bad players have no clue about that,because blizz has giving casters so many instant casts to make things easy for them.you as a caster "fake cast" to get whoever/what ever is on you to wast there interrupt.then once said interrupt is wasted,you the caster then cast said spell.whats thay you said?the dps on you has more then 1 interrupt?well u can instant cast, or fake cast again, or LOS, or get a peel, or just straight up heal threw what ever is hitting you.

stop trying to blame the warrior class for your short comings as a player.if you cant fake cast then like i said its a l2p issue.we all know priest love dks and their NKS right?

[Tart]

*scratches head*

Weren't people whinging about how warriors were vastly underpowered these days? (I haven't but I do find it odd that in practice a mage can tank MORE damage than a warrior can)

I think thats the problem mate, there is no middle ground. Your either sh*t or sh*t hot.

[Greyce]

Warrior was the only class in the game that if they popped their damage reduction, [not immunity] they would deal next to no damage.

Dispersion says hi.

[Mihalik]

i'm really curious on the mindest of you "everyone" guys. do you really believe what you think is what the vast majority thinks? or do you just get lost in meme-like speech patterns, trying to strengthen your argument with generalizations like "everyone", "always", "never", "nobody", and so on, while in reality weaken your argument with it?

oh, and i think WE ALL can give that back to you. because everyone in this forums thinks you have no clue.

I don't understand what are you trying to say here. At no point did I say "everyone", "always", "never", "nobody" etc. As you quoted I was saying, Warriors were performing horribly (compared to the potential performance of other classes) and that LFR is not representative of the real state of a class, as in LFR you can find Mages at bottom of the dps rankings or Rogues, while neither of those classes should be there. The discrepancy can be gear related, or simply to the fact that those aren't players who really understand what they are doing.

Regardless of your opinion, again, Warriors both tanks and dps were consistently benched from raiding by many many guilds as it simply performed poorly. There is this thing called raiding representation, and Warriors and DKs were rock bottom of it.

I would like to hear why exactly do you disagree with this. Elaborate please!

[Cirayne24]

Dispersion says hi.

I don't think you can cast Mind Blast, Mind Flay or Devouring Plague while in Dispersion.

[Yvaelle]

I don't think you can cast Mind Blast, Mind Flay or Devouring Plague while in Dispersion.

You can't cast anything while dispersed, that's what he was saying

[Cirayne24]

Misread it

[Xisa]

The only real issues warriors have is their tankiness with their damage.

Lower Defensive stances' reduction, and it should be fine.

[Redlikemyrage]

Dispersion is 90% damage reduction, it is damn near an immunity. You can classify this one with bubble and ice block, except unlike those two, there is no way to end it early.

But spriests are in a sad state it would seem currently, just in general. They can keep dispersion.

[Deleted]

Dispersion is 90% damage reduction, it is damn near an immunity. You can classify this one with bubble and ice block, except unlike those two, there is no way to end it early.

But spriests are in a sad state it would seem currently, just in general. They can keep dispersion.

Since when cant you end dispersion early? did i miss some patch notes?

[apepi]

I have been avoiding this thread for a reason. I still am not sure about warriors.

As a healer, warriors hit hard but it is healable, but I do go out of mana if they are good. I think they might need a little nerf but nothing too bad.

[Cirayne24]

Since when cant you end dispersion early? did i miss some patch notes?

He saying that you can't Shattering Throw/Mass Dispel it. Unless I'm just terrible, I don't think you can.

[ildon]

The next thing they need to do is put shield requirements back on.

Sorry for quoting the OP without reading the rest of the thread, but this is one change that absolutely should not be reverted. Requiring shield macros for those 2 spells was one of the dumbest holdovers from classic that still existed in the modern game, and it needs to never come back. If they need to, they can make it so if you gain shield wall with a 2H weapon equipped, it flat reduces your DPS by 40% or something (or whatever number it would have to be to be similar, but still higher than, damage output to actually switching to 1H/shield).

[Flaks]

Was playing my Warlock yesterday (yes I know they are strong). I discovered, I don't like spell reflect reflecting blood horror.

Agreed that this is broken and shouldn't work like it is (Sounds like a bug actually).

People do need to realize though that almost everything a warrior can do now he could do before outside of double reflecting (safeguard was mandatory).

Warriors picking disrupting shout instead of piercing howl can and should be countered HARD by kiting. Anyone claiming that they cannot kite or flat out face tank warriors need a bit of learning to do if they aren't playing a priest.

There's no denying that warriors eat shadow priests for breakfast. Hell, most things eat shadow priests right now; they're in a defensively shitty place right now. But any other caster can and should be able to deal with warriors easily and with a partner in the mix should have a simpler time all while being able to control the warrior's healer.

Contrary to what's been said way too many times in this thread, warriors, against a mildly competent team, will have pretty terrible uptime with the only time they can reliably be on target is during bladestorm or shockwave. At any other time, most classes are able to peel a warrior off simply by slowing them, not even roots necessary. Roots themselves hard counter warriors and force healers to waste dispels or for the warrior to rely on a repositioned teammate or banner/intervene out the latter of which is easily avoidable as you can see where the banner's landed.

Warriors are strong right now in group play with a healer and/or a teammate that doesn't need to be babysat the same way a warrior does. They are by no means overpowered and I will stick by this. Continuing to play on the PTR I can see all this for myself. I can faceroll against most classes HARD because most people on PTR flat out suck or are just trying out new classes they haven't played before. But then I'll come against a player or comp where they're well versed both in their own and my toolsets and they won't lie down and take it and more often than not will come out on top; mind you I'm a 1900 rated warrior but that's what my experience has shown me.

You're not going to get past 1600 facerolling a warrior (which IS higher than most if not any other class can reach just by mashing buttons) but past that you're going to need finesse and great partners to deal with players that know how to take advantage of warrior weaknesses (as outline above despite people saying "warriors have no weaknesses!"). I guess to end it all I'll say that the warrior skill floor is undeniably lower than ever before but that's simply because the warrior toolkit, when compared to most other classes, is in fact more limited than others which is why the skill cap was always arbitrarily increased via mechanics such as weapon swaps and stance dancing. Historically, the warrior has, and still does, have less to worry about in terms of skill usage than other classes.

[Knolan]

Agreed that this is broken and shouldn't work like it is (Sounds like a bug actually).

People do need to realize though that almost everything a warrior can do now he could do before outside of double reflecting (safeguard was mandatory).

Warriors picking disrupting shout instead of piercing howl can and should be countered HARD by kiting. Anyone claiming that they cannot kite or flat out face tank warriors need a bit of learning to do if they aren't playing a priest.

There's no denying that warriors eat shadow priests for breakfast. Hell, most things eat shadow priests right now; they're in a defensively shitty place right now. But any other caster can and should be able to deal with warriors easily and with a partner in the mix should have a simpler time all while being able to control the warrior's healer.

Contrary to what's been said way too many times in this thread, warriors, against a mildly competent team, will have pretty terrible uptime with the only time they can reliably be on target is during bladestorm or shockwave. At any other time, most classes are able to peel a warrior off simply by slowing them, not even roots necessary. Roots themselves hard counter warriors and force healers to waste dispels or for the warrior to rely on a repositioned teammate or banner/intervene out the latter of which is easily avoidable as you can see where the banner's landed.

Warriors are strong right now in group play with a healer and/or a teammate that doesn't need to be babysat the same way a warrior does. They are by no means overpowered and I will stick by this. Continuing to play on the PTR I can see all this for myself. I can faceroll against most classes HARD because most people on PTR flat out suck or are just trying out new classes they haven't played before. But then I'll come against a player or comp where they're well versed both in their own and my toolsets and they won't lie down and take it and more often than not will come out on top; mind you I'm a 1900 rated warrior but that's what my experience has shown me.

You're not going to get past 1600 facerolling a warrior (which IS higher than most if not any other class can reach just by mashing buttons) but past that you're going to need finesse and great partners to deal with players that know how to take advantage of warrior weaknesses (as outline above despite people saying "warriors have no weaknesses!"). I guess to end it all I'll say that the warrior skill floor is undeniably lower than ever before but that's simply because the warrior toolkit, when compared to most other classes, is in fact more limited than others which is why the skill cap was always arbitrarily increased via mechanics such as weapon swaps and stance dancing. Historically, the warrior has, and still does, have less to worry about in terms of skill usage than other classes.

Dude, seriously, stop defending warriors as they are fine, you are just making a fool of yourself. You can't counter a warrior by simply slowing him cause he got slows himself (you remember hamstring, right?), gap closers, blade storm (which is the ONLY offensive skill in the game that you get no way to control) and also he may reflect some of the slows. Also, if that is the only way to stop him, there are several classes in the game that will remove this weakness with a freedom skill (pally, shaman, hunter, monk and druids).

After reading your posts on this thread I can only see you as a biased person who would say that s5 dks were fine if you were a DK. Also, it raises me a question to which patch did you reach your 1.9k rating mark.

Finally, now that most people got the new weapons that would make people even with warrior because "warrior scaling sucks" as most warriors were claiming, can you guess what happened to their representation?
It increased 2.9%... (To a humble 17.9%, 2.8% behind the hunters of last season) who would have see that coming? (Hint: everyone but warriors).

[Deleted]

Dude, seriously, stop defending warriors as they are fine, you are just making a fool of yourself. You can't counter a warrior by simply slowing him cause he got slows himself (you remember hamstring, right?), gap closers, blade storm (which is the ONLY offensive skill in the game that you get no way to control) and also he may reflect some of the slows. Also, if that is the only way to stop him, there are several classes in the game that will remove this weakness with a freedom skill (pally, shaman, hunter, monk and druids).

After reading your posts on this thread I can only see you as a biased person who would say that s5 dks were fine if you were a DK. Also, it raises me a question to which patch did you reach your 1.9k rating mark.

Finally, now that most people got the new weapons that would make people even with warrior because "warrior scaling sucks" as most warriors were claiming, can you guess what happened to their representation?
It increased 2.9%... (To a humble 17.9%, 2.8% behind the hunters of last season) who would have see that coming? (Hint: everyone but warriors).

This is the truth!

Still... have to give him credit for staying true to his beliefs even if they are somewhat dodgy

[Johnmatrix]

Bladestorm... which is the ONLY offensive skill in the game that you get no way to control...

Finally, now that most people got the new weapons that would make people even with warrior because "warrior scaling sucks" as most warriors were claiming, can you guess what happened to their representation?
It increased 2.9%... (To a humble 17.9%, 2.8% behind the hunters of last season) who would have see that coming? (Hint: everyone but warriors).

Well killing spree is unpeelable too, don't forget that one

But "Warrior scaling sucks" is always funny to hear. It's used by people who don't even know what that means. If you went and asked them, why does warrior scaling suck, most of them would not be able to answer to you. Arms warrior scaling does suck in PvE compared to many other specs but that is because of secondary stats. They do not have mechanics that benefit enough from increased haste and mastery for example. That however does not mean that they suck in pvp because pvp is played with far less secondary stats than pve because of the lower item level, and haste as a stat isn't even remotely as useful in pvp as it is in pve because you will never have 100% uptime on your target. So it does not matter that you don't benefit from haste. My ret for example benefits hugely from haste in pve, but gemming plain haste for pvp would be just stupid because of the nature of pvp.

However warriors are built to scale very well with weapons. They have lots of attacks based on weapon damage and arms has passives that increase melee or 2h damage for a certain amount and getting a new 2h-weapon benefits arms warriors more than most melee.

[Deleted]

Well killing spree is unpeelable too, don't forget that one

Killing Spree doesnt make you immune to crowd control which Bladestorm does

[Hand Banana]

But "Warrior scaling sucks" is always funny to hear. It's used by people who don't even know what that means. If you went and asked them, why does warrior scaling suck, most of them would not be able to answer to you. Arms warrior scaling does suck in PvE compared to many other specs but that is because of secondary stats. They do not have mechanics that benefit enough from increased haste and mastery for example. That however does not mean that they suck in pvp because pvp is played with far less secondary stats than pve because of the lower item level, and haste as a stat isn't even remotely as useful in pvp as it is in pve because you will never have 100% uptime on your target. So it does not matter that you don't benefit from haste. My ret for example benefits hugely from haste in pve, but gemming plain haste for pvp would be just stupid because of the nature of pvp.

However warriors are built to scale very well with weapons. They have lots of attacks based on weapon damage and arms has passives that increase melee or 2h damage for a certain amount and getting a new 2h-weapon benefits arms warriors more than most melee.

Warrior scaling sucks because of secondary stats outside of crit being next to useless; far more useless than haste on a ret. Haste reduces the cd AND gcd on many of your major abilities. Thats useful as hell. Haste on a warrior is not even noticeable, especially in D stance where white attacks dont even generate rage. Our mastery is probably the worst pvp dps mastery in game. Crit is our only useful secondary stat, and it has no effect on the basically autocrit Overpower which is (or used to be at least) a primary part of our rotation.

Also, we don't scale well with strength either. We have no special benefit from strength and weapon damage'ing attacks dont scale as well with strength (deep wounds being the exception and generally understood to be OP atm). Dks get passive % str bonuses, rogues get passive % agi bonuses, rets get spell power to go with their attack power increase (as with enh), most melee get some form of additional benefit from their primary stat. Thats why every warrior stacks crit; however outside the grevious weapon our damage won't go up by nearly as much as everyone else's from gear. Will have to see what happens at full gear levels but I imagine it will balance out fairly well, except maybe deep wounds.