Anyone Not Looking Forward to Stat Squish?

[Asmekiel]

I see sorry attempts at making and interpreting "graphs" on MMO Champ every day. Of course, the geniuses among the player base can easily see all the things the amateur number crunchers in the professional industry don't have a grasp of. Yeah.

Ghostcrawler himself said it will affect old content.

[Pull My Finger]

Cute. Your issue though is the graph was produced by Blizz and it is fairly easy to interpret a graph. Maybe you didn't learn how to read a graph in school but I did.

Ride on, keyboard warrior.

[Brodeo]

i prefer tangible numbers. big numbers look cool if you dont actually care what they mean

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e-peen measurements were what everyone complained about anyway, right?

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Without going into the realm of opinion or the insipid blatant fallacy that is "hardware limitations", why exactly is it needed? Can you explain to me that without a reasonable doubt that we somehow need a stat squish in order for the game to be better in some possible way?

You clearly dont understand how programming works. The combat system was built with a ceiling. We are approaching it. At what point do you scale back? When the numbers cover your screen and you cant actually see combat? We're almost to that point now.

[Durandro]

They already said if they do squish the current expansion would keep an exponential growth.

I doubt they said that, since that would defeat the purpose of the squish entirely.

[Thyranne]

I doubt they said that, since that would defeat the purpose of the squish entirely.

Here:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585

Bear in mind that the above quote was for the planned squish at the start of MoP. Simply add 90 to the list of levels and change "Mists of Pandaria" to the next expansion and it's a valid idea for the start of next expac.

They could very well change their minds on what to do, but that idea makes a lot of sense for what they plan to do (WAY more than a % reduction, anything below like 50-60% would be overcome within a tier or two).

That it isn't required reading before posting in item squish threads is a little annoying. Would love it to get rid of all of the "they'll just reduce everything by x%!" lunacy.

The squish is intended as a temporary fix that they'll do again after 2-3 expansions.

[rebecca191]

They didn't expect the game to last 10 years. Heck, they weren't ready for the initial surge of subscribers when wow launched in 2004. WoW wasn't built from the ground up to last so long.

the worst inflation and ridiculous stat jumps occurred in Cata and MoP. By MoP they were definitely aware of it and I bet they were by Cata too.

[ben-]

The numbers need to get smaller, when im in a BG and have the top heals yet the number is so large it doesnt make sense in my head its time for a change. Should be able to quicly look look at a damage or a healing and quantify it in your head.

[Asmekiel]

the worst inflation and ridiculous stat jumps occurred in Cata and MoP. By MoP they were definitely aware of it and I bet they were by Cata too.

? Have you played WotLK, it has the same jump in power as Cata and MoP have. Only thing that changed in Cata is how much HP everyone has.

[greeeed]

I don't really care as long as they squish everything

not like what they said at first > squish only BC(small squish), WotLK(medium squish) and cata (big squish) = we will no longer able to solo old raid since our damage, def...etc become lower while they still have same state

[slime]

I hope they just straight fuckin reset it. I want to do 1-2 dps and have like 48 health, buuuuuuut still be level 95 that would be stinkin' awesome.
In fact, they shouldn't stop there were should do dps in fractions and decimals. I won't be happy until I am doing 0.00247 dps - then I know they've done it right.

[Asmekiel]

I hope they just straight fuckin reset it. I want to do 1-2 dps and have like 48 health, buuuuuuut still be level 95 that would be stinkin' awesome.
In fact, they shouldn't stop there were should do dps in fractions and decimals. I won't be happy until I am doing 0.00247 dps - then I know they've done it right.

One thing you won't have to do anymore than is leveling, good idea!

[Kivana]

Nope not me, i am all for the squish.

The way we are heading things are soon going to be even more ridiculous than they are now. Tank HP and DPS putting out 120k+ depending on what they have equipped.

I remember in TBC when the Sunwell loot vendor came out, i saved and saved badges on my Mage for the dagger. Once i got it i broke 1000 spell power ! Yup a level 70 had 1000 ish spell power, more if you had T6 and could afford the epic gems. At the moment my Mage has 30k spell power self buffed, fuck knows what normal or heroic raiders have...

Of course getting more powerful and progressing your characters is what an MMO is all about, but the squish NEEDS to happen before we see each spell/ability hitting for a minimum of 500k when in questing greens.

[Osmeric]

Ok, so they are not going to do this. The only other way of doing a squish then means that a level 90 is weaker as compared to any other level besides 90. That means it WILL affect soloing instances.

Except they can buff player performance in older instances based on character level to compensate.

It WILL affect world PvP.

In a positive way, unless you like to grief lower level players. I'm sure we'll all shed a tear for those poor griefers if their fun is ruined.

And it WILL go against them saying everything would stay the same. I don't know why you people are still confused by this.

We're not confused. We just think you don't have any reasonable argument against the squish.

[Deleted]

What the hell kind of options is that? Just by looking at them it seems OP is against it (also seems rather uninformed on the issue)

[Shahad]

Ok, so they are not going to do this. The only other way of doing a squish then means that a level 90 is weaker as compared to any other level besides 90. That means it WILL affect soloing instances. It WILL affect world PvP. And it WILL go against them saying everything would stay the same. I don't know why you people are still confused by this. The math is right in front of your face. The bandaid fix will potentially address instances the issue here will be that a level 83 will have a different raid buff than a 90 and if both enter together things will just be wonky. Additionally what about things like world PvP and NPCs in the world?

A level 90 won't be weaker compared to any other level. Just look at the graph.

Top Wrath is 270-ish, top Cata is 400-ish. A 48% increase.
After squish: Top Wrath is 100-ish, top Cata is 175-ish. A 75% increase. Level 85s end up even stronger against them.

As for Cata to BC or Vanilla increases, they don't really matter. Being 200% stronger than a level 70 isn't much of a difference than being 250% stronger. You'll still one shot everything.

And that's from a graph that doesn't reflect any final numbers and is mostly an approximation to illustrate the point.

[Cows For Life]

Why do people fear the item squish? Because they don't listen to what the devs are saying.
There will be a squish to reduce the huge numbers, however.....(50% of the players stop reading here) ....your character will be just as powerful relative to the content. Soloing old raids will be possible due to a buff you get when you enter it or something. It will be taken care of.

That's fine for old raids but if you need to go back in the world to grind mobs for faction rep, achieves, or quests... that buff won't help you. Just all around more time to waste.

[NightZero88]

Except they can buff player performance in older instances based on character level to compensate.

Bandaid fix. What about when a level 90 and a level 84 walk into the same raid. Will they each get a different level of buff? Because that would just be odd.

In a positive way, unless you like to grief lower level players. I'm sure we'll all shed a tear for those poor griefers if their fun is ruined.

It is a legitimate concern. Maybe you don't believe so but for some people this is important. We may as well just remove PvP servers while we're at it since we don't really care about them right?

We're not confused. We just think you don't have any reasonable argument against the squish.

You're welcome to your opinion. It's wrong but you're welcome to it.

A level 90 won't be weaker compared to any other level. Just look at the graph.

As for Cata to BC or Vanilla increases, they don't really matter. Being 200% stronger than a level 70 isn't much of a difference than being 250% stronger. You'll still one shot everything.

You make me lol. You say we won't be any weaker then 3 lines later say it doesn't matter that you're weaker because it's not that much of a difference.

[Grogo]

The squish is a great thing, wish Blizzard had done it a year ago.

[Ferocity]

i prefer tangible numbers. big numbers look cool if you dont actually care what they mean

They mean progression through whole of Azeroth, it's 2 big continents, whole other world - Outland, huge Northrend, another Azeroth's continent, through Cataclysm zones, whole MoP's continent and 16 tiers of raiding content (which is especially true for those who did it all in tis current time).

But when it will be "squished" - that's when numbers will lose their meaning. They no longer show progression, and going back to, e.g. WotLK numbers, is like undermining gigantic adventure, and making it feel, 2nd time, as it was some big crawl with minimum benefits.

It would also undermine moral investment of all raiders and all their progress (as they actually go through all tiers of content without skipping) - why should they bother increasing their character capabilities, if those are just "squished", and lose their meaning in long end (with possibility to be "squished" again in some distant future).

You clearly dont understand how programming works. The combat system was built with a ceiling. We are approaching it. At what point do you scale back? When the numbers cover your screen and you cant actually see combat? We're almost to that point now.

Only thing, which makes clutter screen, is bad UI. I remember TBC times, when there were no such addons as Grid, and how bothersome it was to work with raid frames, which were taking huge chunk of screen (together with currently optional KTM/Omen and other stuff). Numbers (which were never an issue in this "clutter"), on other hand, were made visually smaller in MoP, white numbers can be barely even seen.

Except they can buff player performance in older instances based on character level to compensate.

But that would be artificial solution, it would feel like enabling godmode and there would be no feeling of YOUR character. What about outside instances? Cataclysm world bosses would turn into mobs, which are harder than impossible to kill and it would take longer than eternity to assemble group for them (due to crap loot)? Various world elites, like in Molten Front? If it takes my bad geared alt 8+ seconds to kill Molten Front elite, I expect to do it faster over time, not longer, which it would be with "squish".

[Deleted]

The squish is a great thing, wish Blizzard had done it a year ago.

They wouldn't be doing it now if it weren't for the fact that it has more to do with technical issues than anything else.

They're hitting the 32 (2^32) barrier.