45 min LFR queue as DPS. Yes, it's about tanks...

[Deleted]

Tanking is 10 times harder than dps'ing... just the responsibiity alone not even considering anything else...

No, tanking at a decent LFR level is ten times harder than dpsing. Dpsing at an elite level is ten times harder than tanking at an elite level.

[nightfalls]

So they don't want to tank so badly that they need a 3rd spec for fast que tank spec? This is exactly what I mean you will get QUANTITY of tanks if you give more classes the ability to and the spec I guess as well but those that are so not invested in it they woudl need another spec just to have it will lead to the same "lfr tanks" that so many complain about. Not saying you won't find a diamond in the rough every now and then but the vast majority if they can't be assed to have it as one of there 2 specs really wont care on how they do > "dat fast que"

That doesn't matter, because 1) You don't need that big of a skill to tank LFR, so quantity does matter. QUANTITY is exactly the reason for the 45 minute queues. I don't think enough people can get that into their heads yet.

2) You're discounting every primarily healer/DPS druid or monk player who is still an able tank but just doesn't do it as a main spec or as a raider. Or even many DPS main DK's/warriors who will roll a second DPS spec and just wait because either because they do both for raid or have a spec for PvP, but are still able tanks with shield in inventory.

[judgementofantonidas]

The problem is it's easy to construe anything as being insulting. If you actually said that, I can kinda sorta maybe see how it might come off as "You don't know how to play" which is true, but it's in presentation as nobody likes to be told they're doing a crappy job (especially if they are!). Not saying you are incorrect but I can see why the typical LFRer would take offense at anyone offering advice because they think it all boils down to "You suck, let me tell you how to not suck..."

That is why, when someone obviously is not in the same zip code of how their class should be played, you should simply ask them which boosting service they bought their toon from and remove all doubt as to the insult implied.

[Deleted]

I even had one person say to me 'lfr isn't the place to learn how to tank this'
I'm sorry, I was unaware that hcs/pg/scens could teach me the specifics of ANY individual 'raid' fight, let alone all of em.

Well the Dungeon Journal does exist to allow for the in-game research of boss abilities. However it still proves the point that tanks are expected to have researched the fights beforehand, while healers and dps can get away with not doing so.

[Whitepaw]

Most people hate tanking - not because it's hard, but because it's the role with most responsibility.

Some people (like me) like tanking and are good at it. Why don't we tank in LFR? Because LFR does not give us power matching the responsibility. A dps pre-pulling? I want a button to instantly kick that moron. A healer going /follow and /afk? Yep, same button.

When I tank, people expect me to shoulder responsibility, sometimes even carry the fight. Ok, I'll do that, but then I want to be boss. Then I decide how we do stuff, when we pull, who gets kicked etc.

Some people like to back-seat drive: Not having the wheel, but telling the raid where to go and what to do. I hate those people - if you don't take responsibility, leave it to others to run the show. But with LFR, I can't do anything about them, so I prefer to not tank.

[.Nensec]

Every expansion adds a tank class. Doesn't fix the problem.

Mainly because those tank classes can also DPS.

A wild push of blizzard would be to add a true protector class, one that can only tank and heal

[nightfalls]

Mainly because those tank classes can also DPS. A wild push of blizzard would be to add a true protector class, one that can only tank and heal

Not a popular idea due to dailies and PvP where tanks are generally not welcome. The reason that adding classes doesn't fix the problem is that adding a new class forces a reroll regardless, so it does nothing to skew current role balance.

[Deleted]

I play a tank, and the negatives of LFR far outweigh the positives to convince me to go in there.

If the other 24 people were nice people, not toxic little children who are always "better" (sarcasm) at the game than me, then maybe I'd queue just to solve a problem for people who genuinely want to get LFR done in a civilised and polite manner.

At the moment I really have no reason to queue. I don't need the gear, and I certainly don't need attitude from other humans.

This is probably the reason for the tank shortage in LFR.

[Deleted]

This thread is scary, some of these ideas are some of the worst ever suggested on this forum (my opinion).

I'm not sure how this is even a topic, this thread is prob mainly dps complaining about other roles while they are part of the problem, if you don't like long queues, then roll a tank. The thing is that guild have 0 trouble finding tanks and in the end you have to remember that everything has its downsides, LFR = Long queues, meh loot.
Normal raiding = OK loot, people can be heavy to carry. HC raiding = lots of dedication and big rewards.

In the end its a even trade-off, if you don't like the fact that LFR is unorganized and makes you rely on complete strangers then you are going to have to invest a little more time into going to the Normal mode area of the game. LFR is a grind, if your DPS then your gonna have a bad time, nothing that blizzard can do will change that, it's not about the fact that not every class cant tank, its about the fact that people don't WANT to tank (even though its probably the funnest thing to do)

And anyone who suggest that tanking or any role for that matter is easy deserves to sit in queue for hours.

[Normie]

That is why, when someone obviously is not in the same zip code of how their class should be played, you should simply ask them which boosting service they bought their toon from and remove all doubt as to the insult implied.

Actually, rather than asking that, "you" should probably shut up rather than remove all doubt about whether "you" are a complete ass.

Because this game needs fewer complete asses.

Bad players? Might be fine to get along with anyway. Complete asses? Not what I log in for.

[khalltusk]

Amen!

Last 2-3 week's worth of threads has spurred me on to break out my prot warr and blood dk, just to see lfr from tank pov. We'll, I did actually want to play and gear them too, and since I hate dps queues (with 4 healers already) it made sense. But also cos I'm fucking pig sick-sick to death of shit and/or lazy tanks. (by lazy I mean shit gear, Adventists, no gems/chant/forge and not even a basic clue)

With timeless isle gear and old raid pieces (all gemmed/chanted/forged) I started in p1 of ToT.
The other tank was a dk geared and specced frost (tot normal mode kit too) who said he had no tank spec or gear, so we kicked him.
His replacement hadn't zoned in yet when a dps kindly started the fight for me with the usual bullshit line: it's only lfr...
Luckily a dps monk had gone BrM just before the pull and we taunted off each other at the right times.
New tank zones in, we get to horridon without too much mess, but he/she doesn't know the fight to tank.
So, openly in raid chat, I explained it to him hoping impatient dps would see why we 'were taking so long' to pull.
The same foul mouthed cock-shite lock that pulled first boss started to then give me a mouthful of abuse for talking to the other tank?! wtf?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

"pull faster, you're too slow"
"we're both New tanks, we're sorting tactics"
"fuck tactics, it's only lfr"
"ok, let's start a mechanic-less wipe instead shall we?"
Wipe happens:
"tanks are shit, don't know what to do, kick em"

How the fuck do you win?
I am not the least bit surprised to see/read just how many tanks don't tank lfr.

I even had one person say to me 'lfr isn't the place to learn how to tank this'
I'm sorry, I was unaware that hcs/pg/scens could teach me the specifics of ANY individual 'raid' fight, let alone all of em.
Are people actually for real sometimes?
My face hurts from dropping my head onto my keyboard so often in despair.....

No wonder so many players of other games hate players of wow /eye-roll

Edit: auto-correct on my phone kills my posts every fucking time >.<

I have learned to ignore the muppets asking for faster pulls etc. I just do it at my own pace (which is pretty fast when im in dungeon). So far not been kicked from LFR, had a few whiney bastards who wanted to kick as I was taking too long to pull but I was explaining stuff to the off tank who was new! They whined, I told them what I was doing, this guy wanted to kick so we could get a "better" tank in as I was taking too long. I told him feel free to do so. I will pull once the other tanks ready and if they dont like it then sure enjoy the wait for a new tank I will just re-queue with another group. They kicked the mage who whined!

[Mikael123]

To get more tanks queuing for LFR Blizzard should increase the reward, to make up for all the hazzle tanks often have to go through. Blizzard could for example make the goodie bags turn up more frequently and add a low chance for them to drop a cool polar bear mount or similar sought after mount.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I do lfr (I que alone) on my tank once a week and never have I been "yelled at". The only time I ever was yelled at was by a flex raid grp's other tank, because I didn't know the tactics (it was the frikkin first week and I said from the beginning I didn't know them). The only time I ever see people criticising a tank is if it happens to be a iLvl 498 panda monk without any enchant/gem on their equipent, nor a single stat that a tank would wear and a complete lack of knowledge about a bewmasters abilities, and they rightfully do so. I also will never understand why people claim tanking is hard, dumb people make something hard in wow, your actual job is piss easy, even more so than most of dd stuff that happens. The forced tank swapping is probably the easiest bits of them all and but the only thing there is to it anyway, and this is coming from from a guy that most of the time has to deal with the off tank roles (which means no standstill boss tanking, but keeping adds busy and such). Until mid of Cata I was mainly melee dps and then slowly tanked more and more, because one of our tanks had less and less time. Nowadays I tank almost exclusivly and every time I find myself dpsing for a change I find the mechanics alot more challenging, as most of the boss abilities don't even involve the tank in any way, well and then there is the melee unfriendly bosses too...

For those of you that think its your job to lead the raid because you are the tank, you are wrong, that role falls to the guy that has the raid leader flag. If you don't set it, there is no reason for you to do it despite that.

[khalltusk]

I do lfr (I que alone) on my tank once a week and never have I been "yelled at". The only time I ever was yelled at was by a flex raid grp's other tank, because I didn't know the tactics (it was the frikkin first week and I said from the beginning I didn't know them). The only time I ever see people criticising a tank is if it happens to be a iLvl 498 panda monk without any enchant/gem on their equipent, nor a single stat that a tank would wear and a complete lack of knowledge about a bewmasters abilities, and they rightfully do so. I also will never understand why people claim tanking is hard, dumb people make something hard in wow, your actual job is piss easy, even more so than most of dd stuff that happens. The forced tank swapping is probably the easiest bits of them all and but the only thing there is to it anyway, and this is coming from from a guy that most of the time has to deal with the off tank roles (which means no standstill boss tanking, but keeping adds busy and such). Until mid of Cata I was mainly melee dps and then slowly tanked more and more, because one of our tanks had less and less time. Nowadays I tank almost exclusivly and every time I find myself dpsing for a change I find the mechanics alot more challenging, as most of the boss abilities don't even involve the tank in any way, well and then there is the melee unfriendly bosses too...

For those of you that think its your job to lead the raid because you are the tank, you are wrong, that role falls to the guy that has the raid leader flag. If you don't set it, there is no reason for you to do it despite that.

Lucky for you! But imagine what the other tank did in flex and that this time its in LFR and the guy just verbally abuses you for asking a question on how to position something etc. Seen it happen many times in LFR its sad to see.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Lucky for you! But imagine what the other tank did in flex and that this time its in LFR and the guy just verbally abuses you for asking a question on how to position something etc. Seen it happen many times in LFR its sad to see.

In this case it would mean tanks themselves are dicks and canabalize themself. Though admittedly I've seen other, more inexperienced tanks, be more than happy that I actually explained boss fights to them, instead if ignoring/insulting them, maybe alot of tanks are in fact dicks :P.

[Deleted]

This is probably the reason for the tank shortage in LFR.

Not to mention you get better gear from Timeless Isle than you do from LFR..

Why go there when you can farm ready-for-Flex-or-Normal/HC gear from TI.

[khalltusk]

In this case it would mean tanks themselves are dicks and canabalize themself. Though admittedly I've seen other, more inexperienced tanks, be more than happy that I actually explained boss fights to them, instead if ignoring/insulting them, maybe alot of tanks are in fact dicks :P.

Sadly its not tanks doing it for the most part. Its random DPS or a healer letting loose the flames of war. Most other tanks im with are fine (and i usually chat to them via whisper about whos tanking first etc) The worst I saw was when a heroic geared tank came in because the previous tank left after getting a lot of abuse from some random dps paladin. The paladin called the new tank a retard instantly for asking which side he was tanking on spoils. The heroic tank went ape at the guy and rightly so!

The heroic tank did the fight flawlessly and at the end of the raid told the paladin to go fuck him self XD

[Nobleshield]

Well the Dungeon Journal does exist to allow for the in-game research of boss abilities. However it still proves the point that tanks are expected to have researched the fights beforehand, while healers and dps can get away with not doing so.

Reading the dungeon journal often isn't enough; you have to actually see the fight to "get" how it really works. Even a fight like Immerseus for example, you can read the DJ and still not know how to know what direction Swirl is coming, how far it moves, when the puddle comes on you, how the adds spawn, etc. Watching a video can often help with that but do we really want to get into the notion that "You need to watch third party videos to do in-game content"? I think not. Videos are beyond helpful, naturally, but I don't think it should be required​, and especially not for LFR.

[khalltusk]

Reading the dungeon journal often isn't enough; you have to actually see the fight to "get" how it really works. Even a fight like Immerseus for example, you can read the DJ and still not know how to know what direction Swirl is coming, how far it moves, when the puddle comes on you, how the adds spawn, etc. Watching a video can often help with that but do we really want to get into the notion that "You need to watch third party videos to do in-game content"? I think not. Videos are beyond helpful, naturally, but I don't think it should be required​, and especially not for LFR.

I am the same, I read dungeon journal which tells you things to look out for but the only way to learn the fight is to get on and do it. Watching a videos all well and good and I still do it so I have a better understand of what to expect. I have a healer alt which I have done more in soo than my tank. Its helpful as when I got in on my tank I know how the fight unfolds and just need to know the tanking side of it (how many stacks to taunt on where to position etc).

[DeadmanWalking]

Another issue is that now you can queue up as a healer or as a dps with a healer and get a good fast queue while setting yourself to get tank gear so there is no reason to tank LFR when you can get the rewards of tanking without the hassle.