1. #31941
    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    I actually find the first half of the levelling process OK, but once I hit 35-40 I just tend to give up. I mean, you get access to all your skills by the time you're 30 and from then on it's just 1 trait point per level for another 50! levels... which is quite frankly awful.
    For me personally levelling a new character has to have a carrot on a stick, something to look forward to every time you level up ("omg 5 more levels and I get to use that shiny new ability" etc) otherwise it becomes dull as eff.
    Shockingly, most of my characters have been sitting around lvl35 for about a year now.
    Originally there was not going to be any character levels in GW2. Then they decided they wanted to do the GW1 thing where players have access to key attributes at a relatively low level- 30.

    Going through various iterations it seems Anet never got the post level 30 reward structure sorted out. To be honest, I don't think the game scales very well beyond that level 30-35ish mark either.

    I remember on my first character during launch week getting gear that was mostly ineffectual to performance past that level range. To the point that by the time I was in lower Mt. Maelstrom, Sparkfly and Orr (roughly the early to mid 70s) I was in gear composed of a mish-mash of level 30, 40, 60 gear with little concern or pressure to swap anything out. The same held true for traits and weapon kit as there was almost no reason to ever swap out a single skill or contemplate some past earned trait.

    It wasn't till the exotic gear could be equipped that there seemed any significant impact on character development post level 30 for me.

    By contrast I just played 45 mins of D3 on a HC Monk normal mode. The pacing and doling out of skills, runes and gear in the game is almost perfection in both a design and psychological sense. Not that D3's scaling is all roses [its the major pitfall of D3 coupled with oversimple gameplay], natch. Though in pacing and reward structure it gets a lot right similar to Ocarnia of Time or Megaman X, for example.

    I don't think pacing of character advancement in GW2 is a particularly serious problem overall. Many players are less inclined to the mechanical operation of their games- simply enjoying the act of playing moreso than thinking about a game(s) in an analytical sense. So I reckon a good number of players just enjoy the base gameplay and interactions within the game environment(s) of GW2 all the same.

    Still, there doesn't seem to be much if any pressure within GW2's game systems to lend significance to choices of skills, traits and gear post level 30 for a good long while.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2013-10-14 at 03:09 PM.

  2. #31942
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Still, there doesn't seem to be much if any pressure within GW2's game systems to lend significance to choices of skills, traits and gear post level 30 for a good long while.
    I can't speak for all classes, but there's a definite difference in how a Minion-heavy build plays on a Necromancer traited vs. untraited. The boosts to their health and damage, as well as the ability to siphon health through all the minions' attacks, is pretty significant compared to not having them equipped. There are probably other examples as well, but some really do impact playstyle more than just seeing how many points you have in a trait line.

  3. #31943
    I haven't really focused much on levels gained on my past few alts. I do the dailies with them (if they're not already 80) and/or WvW, whatever applicable LS content there is such as Scarlet invasions, etc. and they end up hitting 80 on their own without much effort. I've also seen a trend of people swapping out their characters at the ends of dungeons for EXP, though I have never done that myself, it's supposedly a fast way to level as well.

    I guess if all you're doing is map completion trying to gain levels it could be slow.

  4. #31944
    With all but my Necromancer(who is 80 and still slowly exploring the world map)I do all the starting zones, do the dailies with whichever I'm levelling currently, and spend some time farming the Queensdale champ train if I'm of a mood to. Have two at 50, four at 40, and the last still coming up through the other explorables. Once I get them all to 50 my plan is to get out and do some more map completion. I'm interested to see how fast they can level with the Halloween event, though. If that proves expeditious, I may grind on that as well.

  5. #31945
    Just do Mad King's Labyrinth and join the zerg in there. I got 3 levels on my necro in about an hour. The leveling there is pretty insane.

  6. #31946
    yeah, I'm leveling my Guardian there, used a birthday xp boost with it and the leveling is pretty good

  7. #31947
    Herald of the Titans Achaman's Avatar
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    i used cooking and some other prof i forget to get 20 easy levels but then thinking of making a new char i worry what to do next time since i dont really want every single char with the same proffs just because its a quicker leveling experience since im not going to use them at cap for fancy food or w.e but at the same time the other proffs either cost more or take way more materials

    i hate dailies/repeatables and after two playthroughs doing the same zones again everytime is just painful

  8. #31948
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    I find the leveling in GW2 to be one of the largest flaws as well. It would have been more ideal to have the ability to go to any zone immediately. To be honest I think there were just system discrepancies that forced their hand into taking the easy way out with levels. Namely things like crafting and how gear worked. Really hard to stuff 600 levels of crafting in the game when there's no level based progression. They would have had to consolidate a lot of professions instead of having such an abundance.

    The personal story could have remained, as a guide through some zones, but really it seems like gear and crafting were the awkward ducks that didn't mesh without levels. I guess they could have made crafting levels the same, let the stat levels on the gear to remain constant through the levels, but then allow different materials to create visually different items. This would have hade the neat side effect of making all gathering nodes relevant and may have actually kept people spread out among the zones.

    But meh, not really useful to talk about what ifs at this point. They still hit the largest homerun in my book in creating a game that constantly provides content for people who play it every day, yet lets someone like me come and go as I please. The only thing I feel like I've missed out on is making my character look uber fantastic and getting many achievements.

    Otherwise, it's a joy to be able to see a fancy Halloween patch and jump on for a week or two, then go back to other games. I've specifically given them money as a thank you, when other games I would have paid nothing. It doesn't hurt that their cash shop is fairly intriguing.
    BAD WOLF

  9. #31949
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    I find the leveling in GW2 to be one of the largest flaws as well. It would have been more ideal to have the ability to go to any zone immediately. To be honest I think there were just system discrepancies that forced their hand into taking the easy way out with levels. Namely things like crafting and how gear worked. Really hard to stuff 600 levels of crafting in the game when there's no level based progression. They would have had to consolidate a lot of professions instead of having such an abundance.

    The personal story could have remained, as a guide through some zones, but really it seems like gear and crafting were the awkward ducks that didn't mesh without levels. I guess they could have made crafting levels the same, let the stat levels on the gear to remain constant through the levels, but then allow different materials to create visually different items. This would have hade the neat side effect of making all gathering nodes relevant and may have actually kept people spread out among the zones.

    But meh, not really useful to talk about what ifs at this point. They still hit the largest homerun in my book in creating a game that constantly provides content for people who play it every day, yet lets someone like me come and go as I please. The only thing I feel like I've missed out on is making my character look uber fantastic and getting many achievements.

    Otherwise, it's a joy to be able to see a fancy Halloween patch and jump on for a week or two, then go back to other games. I've specifically given them money as a thank you, when other games I would have paid nothing. It doesn't hurt that their cash shop is fairly intriguing.
    Re: the bold, the way I see it, if they didn't have levels (and thus, no need for different level armor), crafting could stay in it's current state, just with each current set of armor having a different design rather than different levels.

    Edit: And then I read further into your post and saw you said the same thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  10. #31950
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    Edit: And then I read further into your post and saw you said the same thing!
    Haham yeah...I was contemplating what would have solved that dilemma and then I came to the quick realization it would have actually made the entire game more viable and now I'm really confused as to why they didn't go that direction. It would have been almost flawless design.

    I mean it would have set them up to never need to make an expansion (even though they aren't planning it now) and to have world events take place all over the place and not just in the starting zones and main cities(primarily). It would have added more incentive and synergy with the zones and why you are there, while liberating both devs and players to create and experience content in every spot on the map at any time.

    That's what would have made all the game truly revolutionary. Would that have necessarily gone over so well with very single minded, traditional mode oriented players in the MMO genre? Probably not. At least once you get to 80 the game functions primarily that way...you just don't get the benefits of having crafting materials that are always viable on their own as they are.
    BAD WOLF

  11. #31951
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    As I understood it, that was their initial design direction. It seems like at some point along the way they got spooked or something and decided to create a "Half our game, half 2nd-gen-MMO" sort of product.
    That is my understanding as well. I guess the fear or pressure of making the game more familiar to traditional players was a driving factor. Idk. There's just no reason other than that I can even imagine would be strong enough to counter how perfect the design would have been had they continued that direction.

    I'm glad they have stated no expansions at this point as it at least rectifies that mistake for players that make it to max. Effectively you can play the game as it should be across the board at that point, minus the secondary systems (like professions) being as perfect as the content system.
    BAD WOLF

  12. #31952
    I think the major flaw in leveling in GW2 is that it's 80 levels. Feels like too much for me. Especially as you can be relatively "done" by level 30 on many classes.

    Playing the content is immensely enjoyable for me. But having the specter of 50 more levels hanging over me while I do is [psychologically] distressing. It feels like a chore at some point even though I am likely going to do the EXACT things at 80 as I did at 30 with the same amount of enjoyment gained.

    30 would have been fine, I think. 10 more than Guild Wars 1! 80 is too much.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2013-10-17 at 04:49 PM.

  13. #31953
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I think the major flaw in leveling in GW2 is that it's 80 levels. Feels like too much for me. Especially as you can be relatively "done" by level 30 on many classes.

    30 would have been fine, I think. 10 more than Guild Wars 1!
    I agree, I especially liked the low level cap in GW1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  14. #31954
    80 is definitely too much, 80 levels too many in my opinion.

    But if you have to have levels, 30 would have been a nice level cap. The traits would have to be reworked completely but I'd be fine with that.

    Anyway, it's all a moot discussion. I just hope they don't ever raise the level cap.

  15. #31955
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I think the major flaw in leveling in GW2 is that it's 80 levels. Feels like too much for me. Especially as you can be relatively "done" by level 30 on many classes.

    Playing the content is immensely enjoyable for me. But having the specter of 50 more levels hanging over me while I do is [psychologically] distressing. It feels like a chore at some point even though I am likely going to do the EXACT things at 80 as I did at 30 with the same amount of enjoyment gained.

    30 would have been fine, I think. 10 more than Guild Wars 1! 80 is too much.
    Totally relate to this, its definitely a psychological thing for me, seeing the next 50 levels even though I know I'm not going to change how i play much than when i get to 80, just seems to drag on.

  16. #31956
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    It's not entirely psychological though. There are concrete limitations in place because of those 50 levels hanging over you. Want to start working on your perceived end game? Nope, 80% of the map is not playable b/c you don't scale up. At this point I think the easiest thing they could do would be to allow upscaling and downscaling as it is appropriate.

    This way you can go to high level zones for higher xp, better loot, but you potentially don't have all your abilities yet. As it is, the novelty of having an abundance of low level zones wears off after you've done it once and likely played every zone already. There are just so many good things going on in the game that restricting access to it with their design principles is completely contradictory.

    Want to do X jumping puzzle? Ok, grind out 45 more levels.
    BAD WOLF

  17. #31957
    I have to agree, 30 levels is probably all they really needed. But I think they wanted to have a certain amount of grindiness involved to shoot down some of the detractors who poo-poohed the original game for 'only' having 20 levels. I just don't want to see this game turn into another endless slog of content oneupmanship and treadmilling. Oh, look, now I must reach level 200 and get Ultra-Mega-Super-Ascended gear to play the new content. Hurrah. :P

  18. #31958
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    I have to agree, 30 levels is probably all they really needed. But I think they wanted to have a certain amount of grindiness involved to shoot down some of the detractors who poo-poohed the original game for 'only' having 20 levels. I just don't want to see this game turn into another endless slog of content oneupmanship and treadmilling. Oh, look, now I must reach level 200 and get Ultra-Mega-Super-Ascended gear to play the new content. Hurrah. :P
    I left WoW because I got totally fed up with the "content = gear with higher ilvl" approach. it made the work that you had just done pointless very quickly (and as they tried to get content out more quickly, that just made your work pointless all the quicker).

    I am happy with throwing in the ascended stuff, just, since they at least have tied it in with the trades (and it isnt vital to experience the game). but if they go any further down that route it could be the time for me to look for something else. I dont want another treadmill at this point in my life.
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  19. #31959
    2013-10-18 08:17:55 UTC


    We've got some exciting #guildwars2

    news going live later today!!!
    Guildwars2Hub


    Hello, that's my tweet! I can tell you it isn't an expansion but does involve a specific element of the game as well as an audio recording from ArenaNet!
    Source
    Last edited by Maarius; 2013-10-18 at 11:16 AM.

  20. #31960
    I have got to quit being a 'nice guy' in Sanctum Sprint. I don't really care about anything but coming in the top 3 just for the achievement, so I'm not worried about coming in first or being neck-in-neck with 1-2 other people. However, I certainly seem to be in the minority in that regard. I'll purposely hold back using powerups so as not to be a jerk, meanwhile they're trying to screw me over at every possible turn (even though there's really nothing to be gained from it). There's basically a 100% chance of that as I honestly can't recall a single time I've been 'nice' that wasn't repaid with multiple F-you powerups.

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