Are Ret Pallies too susceptible to CC?

[Omaski]

Its very frustrating that, as a Ret Paladin, we are the only melee class that doesnt have some type of instant CC break.

Warriors and Dks have their fear breakers, rogues and feral druids have their speed and stealth (not to mention many CC abilities to get away), and monks have their teleport ability.

the common knowledge for Ret Pallies in arenas is to train them and force trinket/bubble after that its gg, but if it were as hard to CC pallies as hard as it is to CC other melee classes it would be a step in the right direction for pallies to become viable.

I am a ~1700 2s player that mostly teams with a lock, mage, or Dk and RBGs at 1650

[Rixis]

Bubble

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Hand of Freedom

[Omaski]

hand of freedom isnt a CC breaker just clears roots

[tbm13]

I play a WW monk, and play with a friend who plays retadin. Last season we got to 1880 in 2s and it seemed that if he got focused with cc, we lost, if I got focused, we won. So, idk if they're to susceptible, it could be the different play styles of me and him.

We haven't played this season at all so idk whats going on this season, just my insight from last season.

[Rixis]

hand of freedom isnt a CC breaker just clears roots

Oh sorry, I didn't realise root wasn't a form of crowd control. You know, cos rooting that melee in place then running away is totally not controlling.

[chutamango]

Rogues are MUCH weaker vs stuns, fears and incapacitates. Only a few classes have one trinket. Rogue being one of them. Warriors would be in a similar place if it weren't for their bladestorm and it's ability to break a stun if used immediately after they are stunned. Hell, even shamans have a fear break.

DKs, Pallies, druids (with ice block or bubble symbiosis) and Monks are the melee classes with at least 2 trinkets (things that remove stuns and fears).

Then you also have Locks, Mages and hunters that also have double trinkets. Its kinda nuts. 6 out of the 11 classes have double trinkets. 3 out of that remaining 5 have limited double trinkets.

So its priests and rogues. IMO those are the ones that can cry about CC. Its painful!

Kinda brings me to the point of CC....I love single target CC. AOE CC is the bane of WoW =)

[Omaski]

Oh sorry, I didn't realise root wasn't a form of crowd control. You know, cos rooting that melee in place then running away is totally not controlling.

oh yeah, it may be, your desired result will fail, because rooting a pally is moot cause they will just emancipate/Hand of freedom and continue to chase you, or just throw a few heals while you run away. I consider CC to be anything that stops you from taking ANY action

[chutamango]

You seem to be dismissing your bubble as your 2nd trinket. It pulls double duty. Great stuff.

"Its very frustrating that, as a Ret Paladin, we are the only melee class that doesnt have some type of instant CC break"

Sorry this is just wrong. You give rogues and druids their ability to get out of roots...yet you dismiss your own. Rogues dont even have a baseline ability to break out of stuns twice. Druids would need a pally or mage with them to have that ability.

Kinda seems you are not looking at all the classes when comparing yourself.

[Mihalik]

hand of freedom isnt a CC breaker just clears roots

As a Warrior I can tell you I'd trade Berserker Rage for Hand of Freedom without blinking. You could even have Heroic Leap with it.

[Omaski]

You seem to be dismissing your bubble as your 2nd trinket. It pulls double duty. Great stuff.

Considering bubble as a trinket would be like taking a warriors berserker rage and Shield Wall and telling them,"you dont need these because you have def stance."
Ret pallies dont have the luxury of a perma dmg redux like warriors and dks or a ton of escape techniques like rogues, ferals and monks

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As a Warrior I can tell you I'd trade Berserker Rage for Hand of Freedom without blinking. You could even have Heroic Leap with it.

if you wanted to trade i wouldnt give you hand of freedom unless you give me second wind and def stance

[Mihalik]

Considering bubble as a trinket would be like taking a warriors berserker rage and Shield Wall and telling them,"you dont need these because you have def stance."
Ret pallies dont have the luxury of a perma dmg redux like warriors and dks or a ton of escape techniques like rogues, ferals and monks

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if you wanted to trade i wouldnt give you hand of freedom unless you give me second wind and def stance

Moving goal posts now are ya?

[chutamango]

Ya dude, your argument needs some rethinking. Re-edit with something that is consistent. It might help you find some better responses.

[Abysal]

The problem with Ret is that all their damage comes with long CDs. Chain CC them during wings/GotAK and laugh in their face the rest of the time. It's not hard. Ret also has less CC of their own than any other melee DPS. Their defensive CDs are extremely powerful but that is part of the problem. The trade off for powerful defensive CDs is that they can't be used very often.

What ret brings to the table is the best group healing of any melee DPS (WW might be ahead overall but WW doesn't have anything that heals as hard as Selfless healer flash heals).

[Kretan]

Let's not forget about hand of sacrifice as a huge CC breaker.

[Omaski]

My argument has been consistent, the main point is that pallies have only their trinket to get them out of CC's (again, I consider CC to be abilities that stop all control of your toon) but...as for other melee classes

Warrior = berserker rage
Dks = icebound fortitude, pillar of frost, AMS
monks = transcendence
Enh. Shammy = Tremor totem
Feral = symbiosis + stealth/speed (escape techniques)
Rogue = CoS + stealth/speed (CC to escape)

notice how on this list i didnt mention and defensive CDs, because thats what bubbleis to pallies, a Def CD NOT a 2nd trinket.
but i have been trying to defend against everything other posters said regarding Defensive CDs, which are not the point of the post

[Korgoth]

hand of freedom isnt a CC breaker just clears roots

Which shows if anything that ret pallys have too many CC breakers to so easily dismiss roots as a CC.

[Omaski]

The problem with Ret is that all their damage comes with long CDs. Chain CC them during wings/GotAK and laugh in their face the rest of the time. It's not hard. Ret also has less CC of their own than any other melee DPS. Their defensive CDs are extremely powerful but that is part of the problem. The trade off for powerful defensive CDs is that they can't be used very often.

What ret brings to the table is the best group healing of any melee DPS (WW might be ahead overall but WW doesn't have anything that heals as hard as Selfless healer flash heals).

but nobody desires a melee dps because of their off-healing, yeah it helps, but thats what healers are for. All other melee classes have abilities that stop CC except ret pallies (not counting trinkets) it seems a bit much to ask a ret pally in an RBG to help a lil with heals but also put out pressure 40+ yrds away from almost everyone else without getting CC'ed to death.

[Kretan]

The way I look at it, ret paladins are near un-rootable, and can become near immune to break on damage effects through hand of sacrifice. On top of that, they have bubble as a get out of jail free card. If ret paladins were given a hard CC break on something like a fear or stun, they would be completely uncontrollable. Every class needs to be able to be controlled to a degree. It's for that reason why warriors and mages right now are such a pain in the neck; you cannot reliably control them.

but nobody desires a melee dps because of their off-healing, yeah it helps, but thats what healers are for. All other melee classes have abilities that stop CC except ret pallies (not counting trinkets) it seems a bit much to ask a ret pally in an RBG to help a lil with heals but also put out pressure 40+ yrds away from almost everyone else without getting CC'ed to death.

A well played ret paladin uses their ultility so well that their team's survivability goes through the roof. If you want mongo unpeelable dps on a single target, ret is not for you.

[chutamango]

"My argument has been consistent, the main point is that pallies have only their trinket to get them out of CC's (again, I consider CC to be abilities that stop all control of your toon) but...as for other melee classes"

Feral = symbiosis + stealth/speed (escape techniques)
Rogue = CoS + stealth/speed (CC to escape)


This is inconsistent. You talk of ways to break stuns and fears yet those classes do NOT have a way to break things that take away complete control. Yet pallies do. So just because you don't WANT to consider your bubble an extra trinket...it does not eliminate it as an actual EXTRA trinket.

[Sin Cara]

You did list defensive cooldowns for a Rogue. The ones you mentioned do not break CC.
You can use bubble offensively and it does break CC. You're not going to convince people otherwise and quite frankly you're coming at people with an ignorant approach and argument.
What this seemingly comes down to is a learn to play issue. You're VERY low rated to top it all off.