LFR FIX - make it 10 man

[DeadmanWalking]

The only thing good about this ideal is that it is harder for an afk asshat to hide in 9 people than 24.

The problem is that dps AND HEALER queues would go up. Currently the system attaches 2 tanks to 6 healers and 17 dps, under a 10 man system it would attach 2 tanks to 2 healers and 6 dps. That means currently 2 tanks carry 23 people into LFR but this system would have 2 tanks carry 8 people and 14 people would still be waiting for 2 tanks per potential group. Tanks are a tiny resource.

[Vanisari]

I would be able to stand in iron stars on Garrosh, or breath on Malk. Stand in front of Thok. I'd NEVER learn because I'd never die.

[Terridon]

Tbh the queue-times falls quickly. I just did the first 2 wings for fun yesterday, and had a 7 minutes wait, that i missed because i thought i could be gone for 20 minutes. Signed up again and got in after 8 minutes.
Cleared that, and went to second wing with a 15 minutes wait time. Really don't find it bad.

About the idea in OP. It's an attempt to improve people, which isn't blizzards idea with lfr. It's something you should be able to complete with strangers, and 25mans is most likely because it's more forgiving with a few horrible bad players in between. Personally i would most likely just be more annoyed with the 4-5 other dps in 10-man than i am in 25 man since, i just try to find the pleasant players.
With each player carrying a bigger burden it would just be annoyoing.

Basically it would end just like the 5man model of your suggestion. Cataclysm HCs in the beginning.

[Giscoicus]

I love how everybody is assuming that only the dps question would change. Don't you think in a more pleasant group more tanks would join?

Durr. Do you guys also think that if LFR find exist the legendary cloak would be a standard for flex?

What LFR NEEDS is more moderation. People melt into the woodwork and cause problems.

10man would be great if they removed tank swap mechanics, which would be okay if they went down to 10man. Because in 10man, afk means losing 1:6 of dps, not 1:17 people would be kicked faster.

Ofc we need to fix the VtK but still...

[Wildtree]

Minor correction.

More kicks is not what the bad players want. And right now LFR is set up specifically to protect and cuddle them.

Blizz doesn't want more kicks because if bads suddenly had to learn to play like the rest of us did, they'd just quit. And apparantly, if only 2% of the population raids, the bads must be the majority now.

So everyone who doesn't raid is a baddie?

Speaking of who truly is bad...

[Ailylia]

This is horrible, this idea.

If you want 10 man lfr just go flex.

[Vanisari]

So everyone who doesn't raid is a baddie?

Speaking of who truly is bad...

I've met more "bads" who raid than "bads" who don't raid.

[slime]

LOL. Hilarious suggestion. Currently not enough tanks is the biggest issue with LFR/queue times and it requires 2 tanks for 25 man. So, your suggestion is to require 5 tanks for the same amount of people currently trying to run. Indeed, this should fix everything.

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I've met more "bads" who raid than "bads" who don't raid.

That's because in raiding the badness becomes quite clear - in non-raiding, well - is there anything you can even be bad at? Everything outside of raiding in wow requires about the same thought power as breathing.

[Pyrophobia]

Lest look at it from 5 man heroics LFG when it was difficult if you get 2 bad players you end up replacing them
if you get 3-4 you end up quitng and letting them waste their own time

It did not stop ppl from not doing it.

10 man LFR will do the same if it's 1-2 you will be able to help that newbie learn tell him where to learn and he will either learn or get carried.
Like in 5 man dungeons it will be easier to decide since the rest of the ppl will have to pick 1 or 2

In 25 man everything gets neglected ppl care to complete their run asap and vote kick left and right if enought caps is spotted in chat.

10 man LFR does not have to be more difficult nor more easy but it will certainly be more friendly more easier to learn for a newbie and more easier for an experienced player to explain fast the 2 mechanics of the LFR fight

In the Long run due to 10 man being more friendly and strees free enviroment we will see people returning to play on their tanks and healers and the few DPS that complain about long queues will maybe try different spec

After all half of them have tried or are even Tanks and healers in their OS queing as DPS so they don't have to deal with what 25 man LFR is right now I got 11 characters 4 of them tanks and 5 healers and i queue on their DPS specs because of all the responsibility 15 afk-ers throw on the tanks and healers.

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LOL. Hilarious suggestion. Currently not enough tanks is the biggest issue with LFR/queue times and it requires 2 tanks for 25 man. So, your suggestion is to require 5 tanks for the same amount of people currently trying to run. Indeed, this should fix everything.

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That's because in raiding the badness becomes quite clear - in non-raiding, well - is there anything you can even be bad at? Everything outside of raiding in wow requires about the same thought power as breathing.

The main reason TANKS don't sign for LFR and we got long queus is the problems all the afkers cause and get away with on 25 man.
10 man on first sight might look like a step in the direction to make the queus as dps Longer but in fact it won't. for all the reasons i already pointed out a few times that you did not bother to read. Exactly like all the DPS that do not bother to do their JOB so the tank or healer has to do EXTRA ... and thus he decides it's not worth to sign as tank anymore and queues as DPS just like you

[Twoflower]

The point you dont get : you want to get failers out of LFR. But LFR is exactly the place that blizzard designed for failers.



If you want real raiding, do it with a guild group and go hardmode.

[melodramocracy]

Queues are an hour or longer, due to tank shortages.

OP's solution? Lets effectively ask for 2x the number of tanks.

[Pull My Finger]

Great "fix". LFR is 25 man only due to very specific reasons. And it's not as if Blizzard never commented on this themselves. I get that people like to come up with all these ideas and what they see as "solutions" and make threads about it. But I do wonder why they usually don't even bother to really do any research on the topic.

[Pyrophobia]

Queues are an hour or longer, due to tank shortages.

OP's solution? Lets effectively ask for 2x the number of tanks.

Actually you have to think a bit:
When there is need for tanks they will show up
Make it 50 man raid with 1 tank and you will have even bigger tank shortage as nobody will bother to gear the spec in first place because "its only 1 needed someone else will do it"

Think ppl think LFR is meant for ppl to see the content experience it that also means to experience the mechanics and wipe to them when they fail if not .... WHAT THE POINT OF THE SAID MECHANICS in first place

Making it 10 man will make it more clear for the newcomers that come and get swarmed by all the fancy spells flying aroudn they don't understand
and all the ppl that don't bother to talk about errors etc.

10 man will make it much more friendly and will allow ppl to comunicate and participate properly in the raid because it is a RAID after all not a quest in stonetalon mountains.

[snuzzle]

That's right. It's not a progression environment. You want to "progress" by wiping join a flex or normal mode group. LFR is not intended to be that.

It is for some people. Due to my wonky scheduling, I cannot join a consistent Flex or Normal group, though I would like to, and though I try. Unfortunate as it may be, LFR is my progression for right now, and I do learn from it. There are people like me out there.

Last night, it took us three wipes to down Garrosh. At the end, there were still people derping by not killing the weapons and tunneling the boss, but there were enough people who learned and were doing it right that we succeeded.

[Ailylia]

It is for some people. Due to my wonky scheduling, I cannot join a consistent Flex or Normal group, though I would like to, and though I try.

Look into openraid or oqueue for flex, its what I do right now with my alts when I want to jump into raid content on my own schedule. Its way less frustrating than LFR.

[snuzzle]

The only thing good about this ideal is that it is harder for an afk asshat to hide in 9 people than 24.

The problem is that dps AND HEALER queues would go up. Currently the system attaches 2 tanks to 6 healers and 17 dps, under a 10 man system it would attach 2 tanks to 2 healers and 6 dps. That means currently 2 tanks carry 23 people into LFR but this system would have 2 tanks carry 8 people and 14 people would still be waiting for 2 tanks per potential group. Tanks are a tiny resource.

I think you forget just how short healer queues are in LFR. For a while there, they were the bottleneck, not tanks. This is simply because LFR is a place where healing is super stressful and thankless, because a lot of people expect you to heal through their laziness or mistakes. I also think it's likely that we'd see 3 healers if they made a 10man LFR and not 2 healers.

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Look into openraid or oqueue for flex, its what I do right now with my alts when I want to jump into raid content on my own schedule. Its way less frustrating than LFR.

I haven't found OQ or Openraid groups to be any more or less successful than just PUGging a Flex on my server. And that doesn't solve the problem that I still cannot do a consistent progression group.

[Danifilth]

2 tanks plus 23 people big boost for people to get LFR drone 2 tanks 8 people faster ques but will run out of tanks delaying lfr longer since almost every tank doesn't que twice for the hell of it.

[Peacemoon]

So 2 tanks per 6-7 DPS not 2 tanks per 17 DPS?

[Gheld]

10 man has a worse tank to everybody else ratio. 45 min ques are long enough.

Also, I love when people qq about the DPS on lfr. The fact is that at any given time the majority of players are meeting or exceeding the average DPS the fights are balanced for. I'm sure the DPS are very remorseful that you only beat the enrage timer by 5 minutes but the DPS complaint reaks of "Wah, I didn't get completely carried today and had to.actually contribute, wow is dead."

[DeadmanWalking]

My LFR queue times have dropped this week to 20 minutes, the reason is because Garrosh has landed in LFR.

A few weeks before each new raid content drops the competency of LFR plummets because of the migration of ‘short timers’, people who would rather spend their gaming time playing other games but want to feel like they are keeping up with wow. They gear up in LFR enough to reach the new tier when it is released, they don’t gem/enchant/reforge, learn strats, learn rotations, give a shit. They clear all the bosses in LFR and then they unsub and go back to the games they prefer.

These guys typically play DPS because tanks and healers have too much responcibility and their non-effort is more noticeable as a tank or healer. Once they leave DPS queues go from 1 hour to 20-30 minutes and the competenacy of LFR foes WAY up because the players that are left are the kinds that gem/reforge/enchant, learn strats, know rotations and farm max valor every week to buy valor gear or upgrade existing gear.

Then a few weeks or a month before new content drops the LFR competancy will drop like a rock again as the migration starts over again.