To people whom want LFR removed: What endgame do you propose for the casual players?

[Shiny212]

You won't get good answers, because anyone saying that LFR should be removed simply hasn't thought the issue all the way through, or hasn't been playing long enough to realize that when the game DID have more dungeons, folks got utterly sick of running them, and you had just as many complaints flying around. (just about different topics).

While the game should certainly have more dungeons, and hopefully good ones next time around, LFR isn't, and shouldn't, be going anywhere.

People didn't quit in droves of millions though, maybe something IS wrong with the current game.

[melodramocracy]

flex mode.
it does what LFR was meant to do, be a easier relaxed version of the actual raid.

but LFR has to be retard-proofed due to the completely random quality of people in LFR and the fact that there is no communication between them such as vent or mumble.

The main flaw of flex is that it subjects players to the often absurd whims and expectations of other players in terms of joining the group. Arena and rated bg's suffer from the same issue, and there too, the alternative of random bg's exists and serves a worthwhile purpose.

[Deleted]

People didn't quit in droves of millions though, maybe something IS wrong with the current game.

The MMO market did change, grind was a no go any longer, and Blizzard might have taken it too far. Could be, unfortunally we can't know for sure why people left.

[malkara]

I think one way to sum up LFR is:
"I can't be arsed sitting on vent and/or listening/knowing raid mechanics, so I do LFR to still get some decent gear and see the raid bosses/lore associated with them."
In this case the fact that "can't be arsed" is included here makes it certain for me, that the game does not need LFR nor this attitude.

This is only half the presented LFR though.
The other way to sum up LFR:
"I can't find a guild that will take my somewhat aged/less skilled play into account when recruiting/raiding with me, I'd prefer to raid without pressure(for whatever reason)."
In this case I can't see any way for it to be fair to take this opportunity at seeing raid content away from these people. Note that this can include anyone from people with actual real life anxiety/pressure issues, to people who are slightly older playing the game, and unable to perform to the full extent of their class because of it.

Note that this is all my personal opinion, but in my opinion, you can't take LFR away anymore. It's become a way to raid for people unable too before, and while some may look down upon the entire thing, your personal opinion against LFR has no power when put against people who for whatever reason find LFR the only reason they can raid.

[melodramocracy]

People didn't quit in droves of millions though, maybe something IS wrong with the current game.

There is something wrong with it, but we can only guess as to what the main reason for sub loss this time around has been. I personally doubt it's due to lfr specifically.

[Otimus]

Should there be aspects of the game for such players? Sure. Should that constitute a majority of the content as it does now? No.

Either one of two outcomes would happen if they didn't switch focus: A whole lot more people would be quitting, or things'd stay the same. I'm sure they picked the one they had the most data for.

[Deleted]

The main flaw of flex is that it subjects players to the often absurd whims and expectations of other players in terms of joining the group. Arena and rated bg's suffer from the same issue, and there too, the alternative of random bg's exists and serves a worthwhile purpose.

The vicious circle of show achievement that you already beaten it, but how do I beat it without getting in a pug, when they all require achievement.

[malkara]

There is something wrong with it, but we can only guess as to what the main reason for sub loss this time around has been. I personally doubt it's due to lfr specifically.

I'd personally be extremely surprised if LFR was in fact the reason for subscriber drops. What would be the your reason for blaming LFR to stop playing then?
1: Other people get purples. (a reason to stop playing, really?)
2: Other people get purples, without effort. (see above)
All other gear-related reasons come down to those above, and I can't see a reason to stop playing in that.
3: Where once I was exclusive with my fellow raiders in seeing bosses lore etc, I find everyone can see them now. (seriously, you don't think people who have quested all the way to max level deserve what concludes the quest lines in various areas? egocentric much?)
4: Any ideas?

Just asking in general, not you specifically quote might give off the wrong impression here, not intended.

[Otimus]

There is something wrong with it, but we can only guess as to what the main reason for sub loss this time around has been. I personally doubt it's due to lfr specifically.

I think it's just that people whom quit aren't being replaced, and as time went on from that drop of such, it's been more and more noticable, which is probably why Blizzard has changed it's course so much, a frantic attempt to try and keep the majority of the casual player base that's left, which, frankly, seems pretty futile.

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The vicious circle of show achievement that you already beaten it, but how do I beat it without getting in a pug, when they all require achievement.

and I imagine that's a huge part of why LFR had to be made in the first place

[vindicatorx]

They should step up to flex, even if it needs to get toned down for them to be able to do so.

If an MMO can't force a bit of interaction and community onto a playerbase then whats the point? If people complain that they "like to solo", that's fine, you just can't have the nice(r) things.

I am in a guild with 2 other active people and I haven't spoken in guild chat in like a year or so. I don't raid cause I can not commit to a schedule. Leave LFR alone if you don't like it don't do it. Leave shit alone

[Netherspark]

Flex mode is what LFR should have been.

The main flaw of flex is that it subjects players to the often absurd whims and expectations of other players in terms of joining the group. Arena and rated bg's suffer from the same issue, and there too, the alternative of random bg's exists and serves a worthwhile purpose.

There are plenty of beginner pugs being created in Flex, you can even create your own group and set your own rules.

[Deleted]

and I imagine that's a huge part of why LFR had to be made in the first place

Pretty sure it is. Blizzard makes some of the best raids, yet few people saw it, since raiders couldn't really be asked to drag the 60-70 % (made up number) through, one by one.

[Normie]

flex mode.
it does what LFR was meant to do, be a easier relaxed version of the actual raid.

but LFR has to be retard-proofed due to the completely random quality of people in LFR and the fact that there is no communication between them such as vent or mumble.

I realize this is not the prevailing "correct" view, but I truly despise voice chat in an immersive role-playing game. It pretty much destroys all of that "role playing" component instantly.

[inkberry]

What endgame do you propose for the casual players?

endgame

casual

Seriously? This shouldn't even be a thought that crosses someone's mind. If you aren't going to commit to it then you shouldn't even be able to get to the "endgame".

[melodramocracy]

I'd personally be extremely surprised if LFR was in fact the reason for subscriber drops.

My own theory is that a good chunk of folks simply weren't enthusiastic about the overall vibe of the content, nor various changes made to player mechanics. Pandas and talent trees, for example, were both quite polarizing.

I'd be curious to see how many players dropped their sub before hitting 90.

[Otimus]

Flex mode is what LFR should have been.

Flex mode doesn't really solve the problems that LFR answered, though.

LFR solved the problems with normals that Cata introduced after WOTLK, though. Mostly!

[lupii]

The anti-LFR's want content restricted and to pretty much force 'casual' players to play the game the anti-LFR's want to play. That is their argument.

It isn't about whether people are entitled or not (personally I think if you are paying for access, you shouldn't be loosing access to content while paying the same price, aka not touching lfr.) It is about these people seeing raid content as this pillar of...whatever that everyone who wants to experience it has to fit into this niche. Now that the niche is gone, they are fretting over it. Hell, theyve been fretting since DS.

[Vargas]

There is something wrong with it, but we can only guess as to what the main reason for sub loss this time around has been. I personally doubt it's due to lfr specifically.

Odds are its just WoW fatigue; the game is old and will not hold everyone's attention forever. Many people have either gotten tired of the game or simply have gotten busy to the point where they aren't able to play it enough to justify the sub costs.

Sure some petulant morons could have quit as a protest to LFR, but they are very few and very far between; I feel very safe in my assertion that LFR has not contributed to the sub drop in any measurable way.

[Otimus]

Seriously? This shouldn't even be a thought that crosses someone's mind. If you aren't going to commit to it then you shouldn't even be able to get to the "endgame".

Then, really, is there even any content for casuals aside from pointless side activities?

[Normie]

Flex mode is what LFR should have been.

Why is that?

You can't run flex when you want to, except if you queue with a group of strangers.

Which is exactly what LFR is.

The only thing with flex is that you can have the RL exclude everyone under 540 ilevel, which means basically you can only do it if you've already done it. And so we're back to something that only 5% of players can do, not something anyone who dings 90 can do.

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Seriously? This shouldn't even be a thought that crosses someone's mind. If you aren't going to commit to it then you shouldn't even be able to get to the "endgame".

This is a viewpoint Blizzard wishes would just go away.