Most people forget how boring grinding End time dungeons was before LFR came out.
Most people forget how boring grinding End time dungeons was before LFR came out.
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I wouldn't like to see LFR removed, big chance people using raidfinder as their main progression tool will stop playing, less money coming in, we all lose.
I don't like LFR, i don't do it. It's easy!
Why do so many ppl like to put casuals and lfr in the same basket. Sure in start lfr was made maybe for casuals, but it has ended up being the easy way for everyone to just abuse a raiding model to get somewhere in the game.
If someone has the time to do 4 wings of Soo and spend 2h+ in each wing (20-30min queue + 1h 30min clear), then he can use those 8 hours to do 2 x 4h raids. If you join a normal guild 2 x 4h raids you can clear normal pretty fast and yet you spend the same time in raids as you do when doing lfr. So think casual players can have endgame without lfr, its the bad and even worst then bad player that will not have end game if lfr is removed.
You talk about Cata as if it was casual-friendly and the peak of the WoW subscriber numbers. News flash, it wasn't.
Cata was the start of making things non-casual. Heroic 5mans? Difficult, at least until End Time dungeons were released. Raids? Difficult. Back in Wrath, 10man raids were easier. In Cata? Nope, they made 10mans on par with 25mans, raising the difficulty and getting rid of casual-friendly raiding.
So not entirely sure how your picture is accurate
Normal mode raiding. Casual players should be looking forward towards seeing content by working for it, not get it handed to them on a plate. You can't even call LFR "content" anymore as all you do is run it once in usually literally one day and you're done with it. It's not true content, it's merely a gear distribution center,
Except they didn't take nearly as long as LFR, could be done daily, and had far more specific loot tables.
Frankly, I'd be all for Normal mode max level dungeons going into either LFR OR self-made groups for difficult heroic dungeons, with the latter awarding slightly better gear.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.
It was FAR more casual friendly then mists.. once you could complete the content. If you were good enough at the game or had players who were good enough to carry you then yea those early heroics made the game extremely casual friendly. I agree though for most people difficulty of those starting heroics was an issue and difficulty of the raids was an issue. In mists they simple replaced the difficulty of completing the content with the difficulty of sitting at my keyboard for long enough to get it done. You can potentially get past a difficulty wall by being a skilled player or knowing extremely skilled players. You cannot get past a time wall by anything but your ability to commit to those activities. I'm all for easy dungeons with gear to btw. Worked great in Wotlk. I agree cata was the start of the anti casual friendly bend but it was still more casual friendly than mists, you just had to be up to snuff with what the developers figured for good. Still I would welcome that in a fucking HEART BEAT. It would undo most of what they did wrong in mists.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.
I think they'll bring back the "easy dungeons for gear" thing. On Timeless Isle, they gave you 496 gear for beating some mobs, which is even easier than doing some heroic dungeons. Looks like they're willing to give you good, raid-ready gear for no effort, might as well do that for dungeons at some point
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Of course it's content, how is it not content? Heroic raiders can do Normal SoO in literally one day and never run it again, does that make Normal SoO not true content?
Plain and simple flex is now casual raiding LFR needs to be removed and replace it with a better gearing Model
You're aware that's what the initial tier of MoP was like, right?
Raids were tuned to be doable in H MoP dungeon gear, which were cakewalks, easier even than WotLK heroics. People in raiding guilds just chose to whine and bitch about dailies and coins and LFR instead of just doing the normal mode raids.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.
Irrelevant. I didn't need the gear to kill mephisto or baal in d2 but I still wanted the chase. For some folks it's just about the skinner box, for some people it's just about character progression without the "end" of raiding.
I could also ask why you think you need the gear? Or why you think gear should have bearing or relevance in end game raiding at all? Wouldn't it be far better to simple have end game raids at higher lvls scale like challenge modes? I was always told skill was the most important thing and gear was largely irellevant. Come to find this apparently isn't the case and everyone needs the gear now..
Well, suffice to say several people didn't actually do much in normal mode raids right off the bat; as I said, they resolved to complain that they needed these barely-an-upgrade epics from reps in order to do the raids.
At any rate, if you introduce swift catch-up mechanics, then you're just going to run into that always present crowd of "THEY'RE ROLLING OVER MY RAIDING ACCOMPLISHMENTS BY DOING SOME SHITTY DUNGEONS! AFDSJFLSDKJFLSD:KJF!" tryhard raiders.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.
Exactly this. Most people can get that "carrot on a stick" thrill with most any other multiplayer game now. Without the monthly fee. Without having to deal with people. Without having to deal with a lot of the baggage of MMOs (Forced grouping to "see" things, being judged by others and letting them decide if you're allowed to touch parts of the game or not, and so forth. I think people really, really underestimate exactly what's going on.)
For my part I think they need to further segregate random group play from organized group play. Random groups should be like scenarios, DPS-only content. Zero need for tanks and heals. Sure, they can queue for it, but they get no faster queue than anyone else. Have 3-man Group Scenarios, 5-Man Dungeon Scenarios and 25-Man Raid Scenarios. Let the pre-form content be Heroic Scenarios, Heroic Dungeons(which can actually be tough and need organized CC/etc again)and then Flex Mode Raiding, stepping up to Challenge Modes and Normal/HC Raiding from there.
No more absurd queue times to play a game, and tanks and heals can go back to being sought out and feeling as special and shiny as they want to. AFAIC that's a win-win for everyone.