Wild Growth Glyph?

[Pinkiepie1170]

I understand that this glyph is pretty standard but the math on it doesn't make sense to me. The glyph adds a target and increases it's cooldown buy 2 seconds. It normally having 5 targets adding a 6th is a 20% increase in its healing right? But that 2 second CD increase makes it a 10 second CD, up from 8 seconds making that a 25% increase in CD and therefore making it usable 25% less in a fight. Am I wrong to assume that would work out to be a net 5% loss in healing from the spell?

[Deleted]

1.2 times the amount of healing, but usable only 0.75 of the time. 1.2*0.75 = 0.9, or an effective 10% loss.

[Pinkiepie1170]

So then I'm right that the glyph actually hurts my hps then right?

[Wildmoon]

I am confused. Is it good to use the glyph or not? I mean in general not the fight like 10 man spoil.

[Siri]

It also saves you time allowing for other spells to be used in addition to being more bursty.

[Pinkiepie1170]

I don't think it is, even when it would benefit 6 targets it's still an hps loss for WG

[Braindwen]

1.2 times the amount of healing, but usable only 0.75 of the time. 1.2*0.75 = 0.9, or an effective 10% loss.

25% increased CD makes it usable 4 times in the time it would take to use it 5 times prior. In other words, change that from 1.2*.75 to 1.2*.8, or a 4% loss to WG healing.

In exchange, you save time to get 1 extra instant cast (presumably rejuv) every 40s. Admittedly I don't keep up to date on resto all that much, but last I checked it was recommended to take the glyph unless you couldn't assume a 6th useful target for it to hit (e.g. Spoils).

[insanedruid]

1.2 times the amount of healing, but usable only 0.75 of the time. 1.2*0.75 = 0.9, or an effective 10% loss.

For every 80 seconds, without the glyph you can cast 10 times, with the glyph you can cast 8 times.
10 to 8 that's X0.8

So the math should be 1.2*0.8 = 0.96

[theburned]

Most druids use sotf now adays though, thus having a lower cd on wild growth is not very important, also it's quite mana heavy. Only using wild growth with swiftmend, and it does the healing I want from it.

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For every 80 seconds, without the glyph you can cast 10 times, with the glyph you can cast 8 times.
10 to 8 that's X0.8

So the math should be 1.2*0.8 = 0.96

Lol the math in the first example is funny indeed, they use the cooldown increase as a 1.25 instead of a 0.8

also without the glyph you might be able to fit in 2 wild growths, one slightly weaker, and then one empowered

[Kjeldorian]

The math favors glyphed WG in that the extra 2 seconds you will get 1 -2 extra RJ off which offsets the the increase in WG significantly. The 4pt16 does bring the glyphed vs non-glyphed numbers closer but still favors the glyphed version.

Ex. 40k SP, 3k HBP, WG will heal for 32.69k over 7 seconds per player, RJ will heal for 119k (19.9k x 5 ticks + initial heal), ignoring SoTF effects for simplifications.

9 Sec Window
w/o Glyph: 2x WG + 6 RJ ~ 1.04 mln (2x 5 targets x WG + 6 x RJ)
w/ Glyph: 1x WG + 8 RJ ~1.15 mln (1 x 6 targets x WG + 8 x RJ)

10.5% more raw healing from it glyphed vs unglyphed

4pt16
w/o Glyph: 2x WG + 6 RJ ~ 1.14 mln (2x 5 targets x WG + 25% x 40k SP x 5 targets x2+ 6 x RJ)
w/ Glyph: 1x WG + 8 RJ ~1.20 mln (1 x 6 targets x WG +25% x 40k SP x 6 targets + 8 x RJ)

5.3% more raw healing for glyphed vs unglyphed

[Pinkiepie1170]

I dont understand an argument that a longer WG cooldown translates to more rejuvenation casts. (I have my 13163 and use SotF. Those supercharged wild growths are pretty awesome and that only makes me more inclined to ignore the glyph. I find myself using SotF more often for that 41 tick lifebloom than wild growth at times when the extea raid heals just aren't necessary. Then again in flex raiding with a BAD ASS disc priest. Iron sharpens iron though right? I like the higher haste a lot but I still don't like the WG glyph.

[Kjeldorian]

In a 180 second window,

You will cast WG w/ Glyph approximately 18 times
WG w/o Gylph approximately 22.5 times

The 4.5 extra GCDs could theoretically be used for RJ.

[Alvito]

I am confused. Is it good to use the glyph or not? I mean in general not the fight like 10 man spoil.

In 10 man you will rarely have 6 people close enough to all get it to make up for the extended cd. This is a glyph that is much better suited for 25 mans or groups that do a very good job moving as a group and almost always stacking. Since so many fights limit the time you can stack or force people to stay apart from each other it is certainly not glyph to always use.

[Raugnaut]

In 10 man you will rarely have 6 people close enough to all get it to make up for the extended cd. This is a glyph that is much better suited for 25 mans or groups that do a very good job moving as a group and almost always stacking. Since so many fights limit the time you can stack or force people to stay apart from each other it is certainly not glyph to always use.

WG has a 30 yd range. You will rarely NOT have enough people in a 10 man setting to make up for the extended CD. Sure, it was true last expansion when WG had a 15 yd range, but now, theres only a very few fights where it will fail to hit 6 people all the time (Thok during the kite phase, maybe Dark Shaman if you arent the most cooridinated team.

[Gwhorn]

WG has a 30 yd range. You will rarely NOT have enough people in a 10 man setting to make up for the extended CD. Sure, it was true last expansion when WG had a 15 yd range, but now, theres only a very few fights where it will fail to hit 6 people all the time (Thok during the kite phase, maybe Dark Shaman if you arent the most cooridinated team.

Indeed, but in 10-man situation, even if it hits 6 persons, I'm not sure all 6 will actually need the heal. During an encounter this situation happens when there is Raid-wide damage, but you wil find a lot of situations in 10man where only 3-4 persons will be needing heal, so... I don't know, maybe on Heroic everybody is just loosing life everytime ? But in normal it is more... sporadic.

So I find it's better to be able to heal more often 3-4 people than less often 6 people, knowing that there is a chance that it will overheal them....

[Alltat]

There are two things you need to keep separate here:

- The glyph is a HPS loss for Wild Growth if you cast it on cooldown for most of the fight. Your healing done with WG will go down a bit if you use the glyph.

- The glyph is a HPS gain for you. Using the GCDs you free up to cast Rejuvenation will result in more overall HPS. The exact number will depend on your haste (3k vs 13k) and tier bonuses (4T15 vs 4T16), but the glyph always wins.


As for ten mans, the only fights where the number of targets available is ever an issue is Spoils and normal mode Immerseus. On any other fight, you will have six targets in range unless your raid members are doing something stupid. Keep in mind that any time overhealing is a major issue, HPS is irrelevant anyway.

[Wildmoon]

Do people use WG on cd? I always time it with raid wide damage and only use it on cd when there's truly nothing to watch out for. Am i doing it wrong?

[Thalur]

So then I'm right that the glyph actually hurts my hps then right?

No. While the glyph is a very small decrease in WG throughput, the freed globals make up for it, allowing you to cast an additional spell (which will heal more than the difference, no matter which spell you use). That is for all fights where WG hits 6 targets, so basically everything except Spoils and Shamans hc (and mostly Malkorok).

Glyphed, WG hits 6 targets every 10 seconds. Unglyphed, it's 5 targets every 8 seconds. So assuming WG on CD, in 40 seconds, you get 24 targets with the glyph and 25 targets without it, while using one more GCD and more mana for the unglyphed version. So, you get one target of WG for the full mana cost and an additional GDC without the glyph. So the glyph is definitely worth it.
If you don't always use WG on CD, the glyph gets even better, because you get more healing the moment you need it.

So except for 2-3 fights in 10 man, you should always use the glyph.

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Do people use WG on cd? I always time it with raid wide damage and only use it on cd when there's truly nothing to watch out for. Am i doing it wrong?

There are fights / phases where you use it on CD. There are quite a few bosses with very high AoE HPS phases. Most prominent of course Thok hc, where you need to use your maximum AoE HPS rotation for the bulk of the fight.

[NightZero88]

I would think the 4p factors into this heavily as well. It is a small heal sure but it is free and instant.

[Deleted]

I would just like to add that unglyphed WG can be a huuuge manasink compared to the glyphed version.